America's Gun Violence

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  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    cincybearcat said:
    CM189191 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/12/us/texas-plano-mass-shooting-at-cowboys-watch-party/index.html

    Awful
    Once again - police act as judge, jury and executioner; summarily murdering another black man without due process.
    This comment is a classic.

    Wow does it reek of inherent bias.
    tell me about it...

    Black men nearly 3 times as likely to die from police use of force

    Young black men again faced highest rate of US police killings in 2016
    Stats are awesome...when they actually apply to the situation.  
    So you're saying the only logical explanation is the officer was upset all the black men in the room had already been shot?
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited September 2017
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    I wonder how many times these parents argued with people on-line regarding right to ownership and not to 'punish' good owners?

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/las-vegas-parents-charged-after-4-year-old-shoots-kills-self/

    Not sure what arguing with people online has to do with it, but I did think this was a great quote from the article.
    "If people can afford a gun and ammunition, she said, they can afford a safe. Mohler said she encourages parents to ask the parents of their children’s friends whether they have unsecured guns at home."

    Knowledge and education...
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    CM189191 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/12/us/texas-plano-mass-shooting-at-cowboys-watch-party/index.html

    Awful
    Once again - police act as judge, jury and executioner; summarily murdering another black man without due process.
    This comment is a classic.

    Wow does it reek of inherent bias.
    tell me about it...

    Black men nearly 3 times as likely to die from police use of force

    Young black men again faced highest rate of US police killings in 2016
    Stats are awesome...when they actually apply to the situation.  
    So you're saying the only logical explanation is the officer was upset all the black men in the room had already been shot?

    So you're saying the real villain was the cop who shot the mass murderer wielding a weapon?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    CM189191 said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    CM189191 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/12/us/texas-plano-mass-shooting-at-cowboys-watch-party/index.html

    Awful
    Once again - police act as judge, jury and executioner; summarily murdering another black man without due process.
    This comment is a classic.

    Wow does it reek of inherent bias.
    tell me about it...

    Black men nearly 3 times as likely to die from police use of force

    Young black men again faced highest rate of US police killings in 2016
    Stats are awesome...when they actually apply to the situation.  
    So you're saying the only logical explanation is the officer was upset all the black men in the room had already been shot?
    WTF are you even talking about now?  How about leaving the police abuse topics in the police abuse thread.  This situation has nothing to do with police abuse...It is a discussion about gun violence.  Your responses would make sense if the incident being discussed was related to racism...but it was not...
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    I wonder how many times these parents argued with people on-line regarding right to ownership and not to 'punish' good owners?

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/las-vegas-parents-charged-after-4-year-old-shoots-kills-self/

    Not sure what arguing with people online has to do with it, but I did think this was a great quote from the article.
    "If people can afford a gun and ammunition, she said, they can afford a safe. Mohler said she encourages parents to ask the parents of their children’s friends whether they have unsecured guns at home."

    Knowledge and education...
    Many gun owners on this forum have expressed in no uncertain terms that they do not keep their guns and ammunition locked separate from each other in their house. They state that by making their house safe in such a way... they would limit their chances of getting the bad guy whenever they might need to do so.

    If people that can log on to a site and write such a thought process down... think of how many simple bastards incapable of turning a computer on leave their pistol sitting there ready for action. The stats do not lie... when you introduce a gun to your home... the chances of someone inside that home getting hurt or killed by a gun increase exponentially.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    I wonder how many times these parents argued with people on-line regarding right to ownership and not to 'punish' good owners?

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/las-vegas-parents-charged-after-4-year-old-shoots-kills-self/

    Not sure what arguing with people online has to do with it, but I did think this was a great quote from the article.
    "If people can afford a gun and ammunition, she said, they can afford a safe. Mohler said she encourages parents to ask the parents of their children’s friends whether they have unsecured guns at home."

    Knowledge and education...
    Absolutely. When I was single I left guns hidden in a closet with a trigger lock. But after my first kid I got an actual gun safe.

  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited September 2017
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    I wonder how many times these parents argued with people on-line regarding right to ownership and not to 'punish' good owners?

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/las-vegas-parents-charged-after-4-year-old-shoots-kills-self/

    Not sure what arguing with people online has to do with it, but I did think this was a great quote from the article.
    "If people can afford a gun and ammunition, she said, they can afford a safe. Mohler said she encourages parents to ask the parents of their children’s friends whether they have unsecured guns at home."

    Knowledge and education...
    Many gun owners on this forum have expressed in no uncertain terms that they do not keep their guns and ammunition locked separate from each other in their house. They state that by making their house safe in such a way... they would limit their chances of getting the bad guy whenever they might need to do so.

    If people that can log on to a site and write such a thought process down... think of how many simple bastards incapable of turning a computer on leave their pistol sitting there ready for action. The stats do not lie... when you introduce a gun to your home... the chances of someone inside that home getting hurt or killed by a gun increase exponentially.
    I must have missed that portion.  I remember a discussion a while back where a lot of gun owners were advocating getting a quick access biometric or coded safe for (plenty options under $200), but anyone advocating leaving loaded firearms laying around where a 4-year-old can get to them is an idiot.
    Introducing cleaning chemicals to a home increases the chance of a child poisoning themselves exponentially as well, that's why you make it inaccessible to children...but they do increase the odds of your home being safe and germ free as well (hopefully you get the analogy).
    I just read a story about some assholes gagging and duct taping their babies to a wall, so it really doesn't surprise me when abuse or neglect leads to children being hurt in any form or fashion.  Unfortunately people can be real shitheads...but how are you going to stop those shitheads from owning firearms...or bathroom cleaners...or duct tape...?  I know it is hard for some of you to believe, but the majority of gun owners are safe and have safes.  Gun ownership 101- "secure your firearm"!

    Edit:  I over read your mention of storing guns and ammo together.  I actually have no issue with this as long as they are SECURE!  In an unlocked nightstand is not secure.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,203
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
    I wonder how many times these parents argued with people on-line regarding right to ownership and not to 'punish' good owners?

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/las-vegas-parents-charged-after-4-year-old-shoots-kills-self/

    Not sure what arguing with people online has to do with it, but I did think this was a great quote from the article.
    "If people can afford a gun and ammunition, she said, they can afford a safe. Mohler said she encourages parents to ask the parents of their children’s friends whether they have unsecured guns at home."

    Knowledge and education...
    Many gun owners on this forum have expressed in no uncertain terms that they do not keep their guns and ammunition locked separate from each other in their house. They state that by making their house safe in such a way... they would limit their chances of getting the bad guy whenever they might need to do so.

    If people that can log on to a site and write such a thought process down... think of how many simple bastards incapable of turning a computer on leave their pistol sitting there ready for action. The stats do not lie... when you introduce a gun to your home... the chances of someone inside that home getting hurt or killed by a gun increase exponentially.
    I must have missed that portion.  I remember a discussion a while back where a lot of gun owners were advocating getting a quick access biometric or coded safe for (plenty options under $200), but anyone advocating leaving loaded firearms laying around where a 4-year-old can get to them is an idiot.
    Introducing cleaning chemicals to a home increases the chance of a child poisoning themselves exponentially as well, that's why you make it inaccessible to children...but they do increase the odds of your home being safe and germ free as well (hopefully you get the analogy).
    I just read a story about some assholes gagging and duct taping their babies to a wall, so it really doesn't surprise me when abuse or neglect leads to children being hurt in any form or fashion.  Unfortunately people can be real shitheads...but how are you going to stop those shitheads from owning firearms...or bathroom cleaners...or duct tape...?  I know it is hard for some of you to believe, but the majority of gun owners are safe and have safes.  Gun ownership 101- "secure your firearm"!

    Edit:  I over read your mention of storing guns and ammo together.  I actually have no issue with this as long as they are SECURE!  In an unlocked nightstand is not secure.
    Agree 100%.  My firearms are in a safe and also have a trigger lock on them.  (I actually take the bolts out of my bolt actions and lock them in a separate place).
    The only gun that does not have a trigger lock on it is my handgun but I am the only person that has the key to the safe.  The handgun is not loaded but does have mags in the safe.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,671
    Saying over half of gun owners keep their guns secure might be making up a statistic. 
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    According to ABC, 57% of parents in a NC study have guns locked up. While that is not enough, it is more than half.
    It also failed to mention if the other 43% even owned guns or not.....
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117480&page=1
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,671
    mace1229 said:
    According to ABC, 57% of parents in a NC study have guns locked up. While that is not enough, it is more than half.
    It also failed to mention if the other 43% even owned guns or not.....
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117480&page=1
    While it brings up interesting discussion points, the results aren't valid to where you can extrapolate that data out to the public at large. 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,919
    edited September 2017
    Go Beavers said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Who the fuck goes over to their friend's house to watch the game packing heat?
    A lot of people who carry live in a state of mind where they expect and plan for random violence to occur anywhere they are. Not a way I'd choose to live. 
    I'd be more scared of that person than I would of random violence. I only ever met one person (that I know of) who carried a gun with him, and that was just when he was camping, and he completely sketched everyone out because of it. Even his own friends became scared of him. It just isn't something people do up here, and if they do, most would assume they're a gang member or a thug or crazy, because they probably are. 
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    I agree. I was just curious about the number and didn't feel like digging any deeper into more articles.  But if it is close to 57% that would surprise me. Everyone I know who is a gun owner keeps them locked up.
  • RiotZact
    RiotZact Posts: 6,298
    I hate the arguement of "well guns should be stored in X manner and then people would be safe." It makes no logical sense, you can tell people about gun safety on the internet, the NRA can put commercials on every TV station about securing guns properly but it isn't going to make anyone do squat shit. Unless some law is made or something then there's no one that's going to change their habits because of instructions from responsible gun owners on the internet. And you can't make a law because what would you do? Have the government go door to door to check for safes? That's not realistic. So what's the answer? It's not to tell people how to be safer, so quit using it as a cop out. 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,919
    edited September 2017
    I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited September 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.
    I advocate locking the gun and ammo/magazine in a quick access biometric or coded pistol safe.  Those can be accessed in less than 5 seconds if needed.  
    Most gun owners I know do this, if for nothing else, to keep them from being stolen.
    You are not going to get rid of guns, so educating more on the appropriate storage/usage and possible consequences for being irresponsible is imperative.   
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,919
    edited September 2017
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I agree it's totally stupid to say that guns bought for protection should be locked up. If they're locked up with the ammo kept separate then they aren't really for home defense anymore, so what's the point? Gun advocates know that. They just spew that shit as a defense mechanism.
    I advocate locking the gun and ammo/magazine in a quick access biometric or coded pistol safe.  Those can be accessed in less than 5 seconds if needed.  
    Most gun owners I know do this, if for nothing else, to keep them from being stolen.
    Are you the one who pretended that tons and tons of gun owners have these things? Or was that someone else?
    But anyway, even if stored in one of these... so where you do you keep it? Say it's in your den. And you're in bed when someone breaks in. That's going to take a lot more than 5 seconds even if the criminal isn't between you and the safe. Or say you keep it right next to your bed? So the criminal breaks in at night, you wake up, take a bit to come to and realize what's going on, you have to get out of bed, open the safe.... great. Hopefully the criminal didn't start in the bedroom and wake you up by coming in there, because then you're dead before you can even reach your safe. Or say you keep it next to your bed and you would have gotten to it on time because the criminal is still somewhere else in the house. Perfect! But only if you're in bed. If they bust in while you're anywhere but your bedroom, suddenly your chances of reaching that gun in time go back to slim. I personally think that the only sure way to always be protected by your gun is to have it on your person (or under your pillow) at all times (not that I'm recommending that... It's easy for people in a society that isn't obsessed with guns to feel secure without a gun. Of course, they aren't generally terrified of home invasions either, so it's a moot point).

    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • RiotZact
    RiotZact Posts: 6,298
    If people actually gave a shit about home security they would have a decent home security system installed. 
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    When the starting position is "of course you're not going to get rid of guns", then there's hardly any point in continuing the conversation. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,919
    edited September 2017
    oftenreading said:
    When the starting position is "of course you're not going to get rid of guns", then there's hardly any point in continuing the conversation. 
    True. America's gun problem = America's gun culture. That culture might fade away someday, but it would take probably 200+ years, and probably will never happen just because of the same shit we see now. They're mired in it. It's very unfortunate.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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