Russia's Influence On The American Election

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  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,599
    Have guys heard this new joke?


    www.myspace.com
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,818
    The Juggler said:
    Have guys heard this new joke?



    I missed that joke, I was too busy talking to everyone about John Podesta.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    "imagine" if the NYT never had the actual emails!
    if I were the NYT I would tweet that to Jr..."we never seen the emails, the world thanks you for releasing the chain" #
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:
    Actively working with a foreign power to subvert and influence the US Presidential Election is pretty damn treasonous if you ask me
    Perhaps....I dont think so,but I'm not a lawyer and I didnt even stay at a Holiday inn last night.

    But I really doubt it gets to that.  I've been wrong before....I thought Trump wouldn't win the GOP nomination....or the election....so my track record on this guy sucks.
    Treason may be overstated but I believe there are some laws from early 20th century about colluding with a foreign power that would be violated. 

    Also,  this would definitely violate the election laws that prohibit taking anything of value from a foreign power.  It does not have to be monetary. 
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    I love a delicious nothing burger. 

    That's going to be the joke phrase coming out of all of this... 
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,818
    "This is black and white: Trump officials at the highest levels knew Russia was working to aid Donald Trump & welcomed Russia's interference."
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    mrussel1 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:
    Actively working with a foreign power to subvert and influence the US Presidential Election is pretty damn treasonous if you ask me
    Perhaps....I dont think so,but I'm not a lawyer and I didnt even stay at a Holiday inn last night.

    But I really doubt it gets to that.  I've been wrong before....I thought Trump wouldn't win the GOP nomination....or the election....so my track record on this guy sucks.
    Treason may be overstated but I believe there are some laws from early 20th century about colluding with a foreign power that would be violated. 

    Also,  this would definitely violate the election laws that prohibit taking anything of value from a foreign power.  It does not have to be monetary. 
    any interest in discussing how ridiculous this piece is?

    https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/world/2017/7/10/15950590/donald-trump-jr-new-york-times-illegal
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617

    The statute in question is 52 USC 30121, 36 USC 510 — the law governing foreign contributions to US campaigns. There are two key passages that apply here. This is the first:

    A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.
    “The law states that no person shall knowingly solicit or accept from a foreign national any contribution to a campaign of an item of value,” 

    Can anyone find the huge hole in the argument that a campaign finance law was broken?

  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,130
    JC29856 said:

    The statute in question is 52 USC 30121, 36 USC 510 — the law governing foreign contributions to US campaigns. There are two key passages that apply here. This is the first:

    A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.
    “The law states that no person shall knowingly solicit or accept from a foreign national any contribution to a campaign of an item of value,” 

    Can anyone find the huge hole in the argument that a campaign finance law was broken?

    Mueller can.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    pure gold...

    The crucial phrase here is “other thing of value,” legal experts tell me. It means that the law extends beyond just cash donations. Foreigners are also banned from providing other kinds of contributions that would be the functional equivalent of a campaign donation, just provided in the form of services rather than goods. Like, say, damaging information the Russian government collected about Hillary Clinton.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,599
    edited July 2017
    So when does Kushner lose his security clearance? Clearly he knowingly lied right on his security clearance forms right?

    I'm certain this is a serious crime too. How long will he hold onto his job?
    Post edited by The Juggler on
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  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    The Juggler said:
    So when does Kishner lose his security clearance? Clearly he knowingly lied right? 

    I'm certain this is a serious crime too. How long will he hold onto his job?
    I'm thinking both Jr and Kushner should lose their security clearances, but for reasons other than 6 degrees of separation to Russian "ties".
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,599
    JC29856 said:
    The Juggler said:
    So when does Kishner lose his security clearance? Clearly he knowingly lied right? 

    I'm certain this is a serious crime too. How long will he hold onto his job?
    I'm thinking both Jr and Kushner should lose their security clearances, but for reasons other than 6 degrees of separation to Russian "ties".
    Jr has no clearance. 
    www.myspace.com
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,599
    Let's get an actual conservative's perspective:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449376/donald-trump-jr-e-mails-proof-trump-campaign-attempted-collusion-russia?utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=french&utm_content=russia-collusion
    www.myspace.com
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    mrussel1 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:
    Actively working with a foreign power to subvert and influence the US Presidential Election is pretty damn treasonous if you ask me
    Perhaps....I dont think so,but I'm not a lawyer and I didnt even stay at a Holiday inn last night.

    But I really doubt it gets to that.  I've been wrong before....I thought Trump wouldn't win the GOP nomination....or the election....so my track record on this guy sucks.
    Treason may be overstated but I believe there are some laws from early 20th century about colluding with a foreign power that would be violated. 

    Also,  this would definitely violate the election laws that prohibit taking anything of value from a foreign power.  It does not have to be monetary. 
    would "endorsements" from leaders of foreign powers be considered "of value"?
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,130
    The Juggler said:
    Let's get an actual conservative's perspective:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449376/donald-trump-jr-e-mails-proof-trump-campaign-attempted-collusion-russia?utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=french&utm_content=russia-collusion
    Brilliant!
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    JC29856 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    my2hands said:
    Actively working with a foreign power to subvert and influence the US Presidential Election is pretty damn treasonous if you ask me
    Perhaps....I dont think so,but I'm not a lawyer and I didnt even stay at a Holiday inn last night.

    But I really doubt it gets to that.  I've been wrong before....I thought Trump wouldn't win the GOP nomination....or the election....so my track record on this guy sucks.
    Treason may be overstated but I believe there are some laws from early 20th century about colluding with a foreign power that would be violated. 

    Also,  this would definitely violate the election laws that prohibit taking anything of value from a foreign power.  It does not have to be monetary. 
    would "endorsements" from leaders of foreign powers be considered "of value"?
    Doubtful.  Intel would certainly be something of value.  I feel like you're making the case against DJT.  What is the huge whole to which you speak?
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    The Juggler said:
    Let's get an actual conservative's perspective:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449376/donald-trump-jr-e-mails-proof-trump-campaign-attempted-collusion-russia?utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=french&utm_content=russia-collusion
    1. collusion has no precise legal meaning, I'm not so sure of that.
    2. collusion can exist absent anything illegal, I'm certain this is totally inaccurate.




  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    JC29856 said:
    The Juggler said:
    Let's get an actual conservative's perspective:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449376/donald-trump-jr-e-mails-proof-trump-campaign-attempted-collusion-russia?utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=french&utm_content=russia-collusion
    1. collusion has no precise legal meaning, I'm not so sure of that.
    2. collusion can exist absent anything illegal, I'm certain this is totally inaccurate.




    You don't have to be sure... only the prosecution and the jury need to be sure.

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    The Juggler said:
    Let's get an actual conservative's perspective:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449376/donald-trump-jr-e-mails-proof-trump-campaign-attempted-collusion-russia?utm_source=social&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=french&utm_content=russia-collusion
    Here's a few things left out..

    1. David French seems to want to accentuate "unsuccessfully" in the attempt at collusion. But how do we know it was unsuccessful at this point?  The only info we have re: the result of the meeting is what the attorney and DJT said.  These are not exactly credible sources.

    2. Adam Schiff was on MSNBC this morning and said the intel committee has a lot more information than what is available publicly.  And one would think Mueller has even more.  

    This is likely just the start.  

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