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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996
    BS44325 said:

    I don't see how Ryan survives as speaker.
    Where in the hell does he go from here?
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    If I were a Republican troubleshooting the party right now, the biggest impediment to getting the agenda passed is the Freedom Caucus. Those guys want a perfect bill every time, and they'll never get to yes. That old saying, "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" -- that's the FC.

    Ironically, it appears to be that inclination that will torpedo this awful health care bill and keeps Obamacare on the books, which is kind of funny.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,407

    Where in the hell does he go from here?
    Like which specific area of Hell?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,366
    :lol: I'm sorry, but I have trouble feeling pity for this idiot. The stupidity of Trump voters is indeed stunning.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4346066/Trump-voter-s-husband-faces-deportation-Mexico.html



    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,874
    dignin said:

    What boggles the mind for me is the people that believed Trump was a magic deal maker...and that the Republican party was some kind of unified force. The tea party nuts have been holding this party hostage for years. Chickens coming home to roost.
    Or that the republicans actually care about providing the average person who doesn't have health insurance, with health insurance.
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  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,996

    Like which specific area of Hell?
    Well, yes, with comments like this...

    Ryan: So, the health care entitlements are the big, big, big drivers of our debt. There are three. Obamacare, Medicaid, and Medicare. Two out of three are going through Congress right now. So, Medicaid—sending it back to the states, capping its growth rate. We’ve been dreaming of this since you and I were drinking out of a keg.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    edited March 2017
    dignin said:

    What boggles the mind for me is the people that believed Trump was a magic deal maker...and that the Republican party was some kind of unified force. The tea party nuts have been holding this party hostage for years. Chickens coming home to roost.
    Nobody on the conservative side thought the Republican party was a unified force. If you know anything about the fate of Eric Cantor, John Beohner and the election of Trump you would know that statement is based on zero substance. It is the fact that opposition to the GOP establishment has only grown through the years is what in the end will kill this bill. Paul Ryan went for a safe plan with the backing of Trump and the republican base did not bite. They did not bite because the bill is not conservative enough. The only question remaining is whether the ascendent freedom caucus and the Paul/Cruz/Lee wing in the senate will get another kick at the can. I'm not sure how they do it.
    Post edited by BS44325 on
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited March 2017
    PJ_Soul said:

    So you don't believe in making wages keep up with inflation? You're saying that unless workers got more education, you'd keep minimum wage the same forever? Wages have to increase to keep up with the cost of living. That some don't seem to think that's necessary is why so many people in first world countries are living in poverty even though they work full time. That is wrong.
    I'm saying that in the end, for-profit businesses are going to make business decisions based on their bottom line. If the minimum wage is too high, they will lay people off or look into automated systems or start hiring higher skilled workers that are "worth the investment". If the wages were raised too much or too fast, that person that was working full time and collecting health insurance might also be replaced by part time workers or have their hours cut to compensate...how does that help their poverty situation? It could actually hurt the demographics that are already experiencing poverty.
    And what about cost of living? Should the minimum wage in a town where the average cost of living is 70% be the same as a the suburb where the cost of living is 70% higher? It is an argument with a lot of factors and not as simple as just "give people more money" and make things rainbows and butterflies.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,829
    7 Years of bitching and crying, framing the ACA as the worst thing to ever happen to freedom and our country... Egg-headed followers and Obama-haters alike sopping up every piece of empty rhetoric.

    7 Years, with full control of the government and they cannot come up with an alternative.

    Lol. It would be funny if it werent sad that we are now being governed by these con-artists
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,829
    but death panels
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,874
    Nunes runs to the White House without briefing his colleagues on the intelligence committee first and now all the sudden Paul Manafort is willing to testify? Voluntarily? And the public hearing with the former intelligence chiefs gets cancelled? The fix ix in folks. Time for an independent counsel to be appointed. Testimony before Congress is under oath. Manafort better be really careful with what he says. How many 5ths might he take?

    Follow the money, from Russia with love, all the way to impeachment.

    Rep. Adam Schiff, a Democrat, told reporters that the committee's chairman, Rep. Devin Nunes, a Republican, had canceled an open intelligence committee hearing. The hearing, with former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, former CIA Director John Brennan and former acting Attorney General Sally Yates, was set to take place next week.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/all-of-us-are-essentially-in-the-dark-adam-schiff-slams-house-intel-chair-for-canceling-public-russia-hearings/ar-BByHxVh?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

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  • dignindignin Posts: 9,478
    BS44325 said:

    Nobody on the conservative side thought the Republican party was a unified force. If you know anything about the fate of Eric Cantor, John Beohner and the election of Trump you would know that statement is based on zero substance. It is the fact that opposition to the GOP establishment has only grown through the years is what in the end will kill this bill. Paul Ryan went for a safe plan with the backing of Trump and the republican base did not bite. They did not bite because the bill is not conservative enough. The only question remaining is whether the ascendent freedom caucus and the Paul/Cruz/Lee wing in the senate will get another kick at the can. I'm not sure how they do it.
    Trump voters believed he was the guy to kick some ass, bring the party together and get things done. The party of doers. So yeah, conservatives fell for that load of BS. Proving yet again that they were conned. Sold a bill of goods.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    Where in the hell does he go from here?
    I think he's done. He will have to step down and a freedom caucus member will probably run to take his place. This is what many wanted all along. Some are even suggesting it was Bannon's masterplan

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/03/bannon-health-care-bill.html?mid=full-rss-di
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    edited March 2017
    Ryan does have a little bit of leverage over Trump now. He still has the power to remove the president's lapdog, Devin Nunes, from heading the Intel Committee investigation and replace him with someone a little more interested in pursuing the truth.

    I'd tread a little lightly if I were the Trump camp.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,874

    Ryan does have a little bit of leverage over Trump now. He still has the power to remove the president's lapdog, Devin Nunes, from heading the Intel Committee investigation and replace him with someone a little more interested in pursuing the truth.

    I'd tread a little lightly if I were the Trump camp.

    And there in is where the moderates turn against their president and save the republic. Trump didn't do shit to move this bill except threaten elected members of his party. They owe him no loyalty and clearly don't need him to be reelected. In fact, it probably helps them to run from this brilliant liar. Trump is a joke. everyone knows this. The only difference is that some of us knew it before he was elected. Its a blast to watch their inability to lead and take on the big challenges facing this country. It'd be funny if innocent people weren't hurt by it.
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    dignin said:

    Trump voters believed he was the guy to kick some ass, bring the party together and get things done. The party of doers. So yeah, conservatives fell for that load of BS. Proving yet again that they were conned. Sold a bill of goods.
    That's certainly true and on that front his image takes a hit but whether that's the end of healthcare reform we just don't know. The Freedom Caucus cannot go back to their constituents with a celebration that they defeated this bill. That will not be enough. Their constituents still want repeal so they will have to develop and bring a plan B to the table. "If" that happens...and I don't see how it can...then Trump can rebound on it. A rebound will also require movement on tax reform etc.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,366
    edited March 2017
    PJPOWER said:

    I'm saying that in the end, for-profit businesses are going to make business decisions based on their bottom line. If the minimum wage is too high, they will lay people off or look into automated systems or start hiring higher skilled workers that are "worth the investment". If the wages were raised too much or too fast, that person that was working full time and collecting health insurance might also be replaced by part time workers...how does that help their poverty situation? It could actually hurt the demographics that are already experiencing poverty.
    And what about cost of living? Should the minimum wage in a town where the average cost of living is 70% be the same as a the suburb where the cost of living is 70% higher? It is an argument with a lot of factors and not as simple as just "give people more money" and make things rainbows and butterflies.
    But with that inflation, the profits also go up for the company, because they charge more for whatever it is they're producing in order to manage the inflation. It's not like the company's profits remain stagnant while the cost of living increases. Yeah, in an ideal world, the wages would go up gradually right along with the rest of the economy. Unfortunately, the capitalist system encourages that this doesn't happen (because the owners want to keep more and more profit), and then you end up with the situation we've got now, where lower wage earners are horribly underpaid, and therefore can't contribute to the economy themselves, which hurts the economy in general, which then forces some to try and push through significant wage increases all at once so they can catch up. Basically, they're doing it wrong.
    I do agree that minimum wages should be determined on regional economics and not federal though. Someone earning $50K in Winnipeg, say, is comfortable, whereas someone who earns $50K in Vancouver is really, really struggling because the housing costs are the 3rd most expensive in the world but salaries remain stagnant (and $50K is actually still above the Vancouver's average salary, and minimum wage is still in the $10 CAD range, which seem almost criminal. They're doing it very very wrong).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,608
    The great dealmaker still has time to pull this off. Nobody knows deals like him...he knows great deals. Deals are what he does best at.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,874
    BS44325 said:

    Nobody on the conservative side thought the Republican party was a unified force. If you know anything about the fate of Eric Cantor, John Beohner and the election of Trump you would know that statement is based on zero substance. It is the fact that opposition to the GOP establishment has only grown through the years is what in the end will kill this bill. Paul Ryan went for a safe plan with the backing of Trump and the republican base did not bite. They did not bite because the bill is not conservative enough. The only question remaining is whether the ascendent freedom caucus and the Paul/Cruz/Lee wing in the senate will get another kick at the can. I'm not sure how they do it.
    18 other republican candidates stepped aside and failed to criticize Trump during the campaign and allowed him to take the nomination without nary a fight. Nobody on the republican side called him out on his bullshit. You can't be more unified than that. And sure, that's the "only" remaining question. They should have listened to their post 2012 internal after action report. Brilliance.
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    18 other republican candidates stepped aside and failed to criticize Trump during the campaign and allowed him to take the nomination without nary a fight. Nobody on the republican side called him out on his bullshit. You can't be more unified than that. And sure, that's the "only" remaining question. They should have listened to their post 2012 internal after action report. Brilliance.
    You clearly didn't even watch the primaries then. I swear you have a Trump level ability of making shit up.
  • slightofjeffslightofjeff Posts: 7,762
    When your closer is terribly overrated:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fntuc9cmy4
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,562
    ^^Don't make me bust out Jose Mesa videos.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    When your closer is terribly overrated:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fntuc9cmy4

    Ha. That was a bomb by Pujols.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    mrussel1 said:

    ^^Don't make me bust out Jose Mesa videos.

    Please do!
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,562
    BS44325 said:

    Please do!
    Too painful.. it would be like bringing out pictures of Byner fumbling at the goal line in 88.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,874
    BS44325 said:

    You clearly didn't even watch the primaries then. I swear you have a Trump level ability of making shit up.
    Show me specific examples of anyone of them calling Trump out for his utter lack of public/government/elected experience? For his sexual assaults of women? For his failed casino and business enterprises? For his denigration of McCain? For his Russian ties and failure to release his tax returns? And not just on the debate stage but a prolonged, engaged campaign attack? They all deferred to him in the hopes of an appointment or VP pick and what they now realize is that he's an empty suit not suited for the office. Your political astuteness is neither astute nor brilliant.
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  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,829

    Show me specific examples of anyone of them calling Trump out for his utter lack of public/government/elected experience? For his sexual assaults of women? For his failed casino and business enterprises? For his denigration of McCain? For his Russian ties and failure to release his tax returns? And not just on the debate stage but a prolonged, engaged campaign attack? They all deferred to him in the hopes of an appointment or VP pick and what they now realize is that he's an empty suit not suited for the office. Your political astuteness is neither astute nor brilliant.
    the best example is when Rubio decided to act like a childish, unhinged clown for a week
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,874
    BS44325 said:

    When you call someone a racist it cheapens you on here. Your arguments begin to lose weight. People stop taking you seriously. They laugh at you. What is sad though is that it also makes it difficult to call out real racism where it exists. People start to ignore real racism because they are tired of the vomitous "I don't like what you say so you must hate black muslim kenyan blah blah blah". Your words have actual harm. Those are the dots I can connect.
    Care to explain why the one true adjective offended you so much? Rather than the other four that are untrue?
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    MayDay10 said:

    the best example is when Rubio decided to act like a childish, unhinged clown for a week
    That is absolutely one example. He did a whole riff ripping on Trump's tweets. Bush ripped on him. Cruz did as well once the field narrowed and attacked him at the friggin convention! The conservative wing and most of conservative talk radio (aside from Rush) went to war with Trump throughout the primaries and especially in Wisconsin where Trump lost big. This continued bashing by talk radio continued into October where people like Hugh Hewitt encouraged Trump to step down. The neocons like Bill Kristol went after Trump. Paul Ryan went after Trump as well. Halifax2theMaxineWaters lives in a completely alternative universe where none of this happened! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
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