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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,591
    ^^okay, I was interested in it for a minute.. Kucinich believes he was being intentionally listened to (vs being picked up in a Quadaffi tap) for the purpose of defeating his resolution. That's the paranoia talking. Boehner had a similar resolution that passed while Kucinich's failed. There's another word for strategizing on how to defeat a resolution.. it's called whipping.
    I'm not arguing that he wasn't picked up in a wire tap, but I don't believe for a second that he was a target compared to Qaudaffi's son.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,591
    BS44325 said:

    I don't think in this situation Trump is claiming executive privilege. This spying (if it occurred at all) took place under the previous administration and I don't think Trump would prevent this from going to the committees. What we don't know is whether DOJ/CIA/NSA/DIA holdovers are resisting the sharing of some of this info or not and yes if they do resist that can and will likely result in subpoenas if it even goes that far. Another twist is that it was just reported (via three anonymous sources) that someone within the Obama administration relied on British Intelligence to access the NSA database for recordings of conversations allowing Obama to bypass American restrictions. Again this is all anonymous and could be bullshit as well but it demonstrates the limited reach of congress should the executive branch choose to use a foreign agency to do it's work.
    Okay so you're now arguing that there is a person(s) in the DIA that is holding the information, refusing to release it. You have a job, right? How much of your information is only available to you? What I mean is.. your email? Does anyone have access to it? The answer is yes. Your drives? Yes. There's nothing in the DIA that the any of the directors cannot access.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    BS44325 said:

    What are you talking about? I am willing to consider that possibility. In due time we will find out whether the evidence was sufficient or not. At the moment though there is no evidence that the "ties" were "improper"...there is only evidence that there were "ties". This is what Clapper and anyone else in the know stated two weekends ago. Now of course these findings can change but that would require new evidence that nobody in the public has been made aware of to date.
    All of which adds up to a situation that is not Watergate 2.0 at all, but you are salivating at the thought of this looking bad on the previous admin and not the current one.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    rgambs said:

    All of which adds up to a situation that is not Watergate 2.0 at all, but you are salivating at the thought of this looking bad on the previous admin and not the current one.
    No. That is your interpretation. I am not salivating but open to the possibilities of both outcomes. Everybody else on here seems to be open to only one possible outcome.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,201
    Uh, oh! Donnie has figured out how to embed pictures in Tweets! Potential stupidity just got cranked up to 11.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

    Good times!
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,489
    BS44325 said:

    No. That is your interpretation. I am not salivating but open to the possibilities of both outcomes. Everybody else on here seems to be open to only one possible outcome.
    I am certainly not a fan of Trump's...I'm sure that is obvious. That being said, we don't have all of the information yet. Only a select few have that information. I can say that based on what I have read, seen and digested thus far, it is my opinion that this will not end well for Donald Trump. If I end up being wrong, I'll own that. I truly believe that it is not a matter of IF, but WHEN it all hits the fan.
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  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,641
    Trump knows he fucked up. If you pay any attention at all to his admins verbiage you would know that already.

    This is going to be an embarrassment for him...even more than it already is.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
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  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    mrussel1 said:

    Okay so you're now arguing that there is a person(s) in the DIA that is holding the information, refusing to release it. You have a job, right? How much of your information is only available to you? What I mean is.. your email? Does anyone have access to it? The answer is yes. Your drives? Yes. There's nothing in the DIA that the any of the directors cannot access.
    I am not arguing that this is happening. I am just entertaining the possibility. I am not aware that there has been an official denial issued on spying. The only thing anybody has seen officially is a request for more time. I am wondering why was this request made? Is it based on nothing to share, difficulty to share or refusal to share? All are possibilities. But as far as my email is concerned nobody has access to it except for maybe the company I use to host my server...I'm at the top of the food chain...I choose what to share.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,422
    BS44325 said:

    No. That is your interpretation. I am not salivating but open to the possibilities of both outcomes. Everybody else on here seems to be open to only one possible outcome.
    That's probably because one person is a professional who understands the law, and another is a narcissist who has little knowledge past the "art of the deal".
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    Jason P said:

    Uh, oh! Donnie has figured out how to embed pictures in Tweets! Potential stupidity just got cranked up to 11.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOO5S4vxi0o

    Good times!

    I just watched this movie last nite. So good.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    mrussel1 said:

    ^^okay, I was interested in it for a minute.. Kucinich believes he was being intentionally listened to (vs being picked up in a Quadaffi tap) for the purpose of defeating his resolution. That's the paranoia talking. Boehner had a similar resolution that passed while Kucinich's failed. There's another word for strategizing on how to defeat a resolution.. it's called whipping.
    I'm not arguing that he wasn't picked up in a wire tap, but I don't believe for a second that he was a target compared to Qaudaffi's son.

    I agree with you but his point on being wire tapped from his congressional office phone is not wrong. I don't believe the executive branch has a right to listen to that call unless as part of a criminal investigation. The AMT used to agree with this position.
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    #wealthcare
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    That's probably because one person is a professional who understands the law, and another is a narcissist who has little knowledge past the "art of the deal".
    Who is the one "professional who understands the law" that you are referring too?
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,591
    BS44325 said:

    I agree with you but his point on being wire tapped from his congressional office phone is not wrong. I don't believe the executive branch has a right to listen to that call unless as part of a criminal investigation. The AMT used to agree with this position.
    It's true that they are supposed to disconnect when they realize it's a member of Congress... I think. It's possible that a FISA warrant would supersede that I suppose. but I'm not sure. But if you're tapping the Quadaffi's son, and pick up on a call with Kucinich, I would not call that wire tapping Kucinich.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,591
    BS44325 said:

    I am not arguing that this is happening. I am just entertaining the possibility. I am not aware that there has been an official denial issued on spying. The only thing anybody has seen officially is a request for more time. I am wondering why was this request made? Is it based on nothing to share, difficulty to share or refusal to share? All are possibilities. But as far as my email is concerned nobody has access to it except for maybe the company I use to host my server...I'm at the top of the food chain...I choose what to share.
    Well if you own a company.. sole proprietarship, and it's not a corp.. well I guess that's true. But I think you know what I mean. I'm an EVP of my company and the #2. But that doesn't mean my CIO can't see my emails if he chose or another sysadmin. They can see the CEO's too. The point is that in gov't, there's no hiding your digital footprint. So if the data exists within the firewalls, then the senior member of that department can access it.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,422
    BS44325 said:

    Who is the one "professional who understands the law" that you are referring too?
    Are we talking previous admin vs. current or am I reading the thread too quickly?
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,124

    Are we talking previous admin vs. current or am I reading the thread too quickly?
    I have no idea what you are suggesting. I am simply stating that I am open to the possibilities that on "wire tapping" Trump is either full of shit, is essentially correct with a large amount of hyperbole, or is completely correct. All are possible regardless of how one feels about him. After all at this moment he is privy to far more information then anyone else in government. To assume anything else is an assumption based on emotion and not evidence.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,422
    BS44325 said:

    I have no idea what you are suggesting. I am simply stating that I am open to the possibilities that on "wire tapping" Trump is either full of shit, is essentially correct with a large amount of hyperbole, or is completely correct. All are possible regardless of how one feels about him. After all at this moment he is privy to far more information then anyone else in government. To assume anything else is an assumption based on emotion and not evidence.
    To suggest trump is talking out of his ass is based on evidence of his history. trump said that Obama tapped trump tower. I'm saying that Obama is smart enough to have had any monitoring be legally sufficient and have all rules followed.
  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 12,326
    edited March 2017
    Tiki said:
    I saw this, but haven't had time to check elsewhere, is dailykos reputable?

    If this is happening, then I don't know what to say....... it's kind of unbelievable.
  • mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,489
    Tiki said:
    I saw a report about this last night. They are also asking people to provide the passwords to their phones & if they refuse, they take the phone & "copy" the contents of the phone. Not sure how accurate all of this is, but it's very fucked up if it's true.
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  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317

    I saw this, but haven't had time to check elsewhere, is dailykos reputable?

    If this is happening, then I don't know what to say....... it's kind of unbelievable.
    Good, Give your passwords when asked. If you have nothing to hide then why worry??
    They need to know who's entering. Born here? So what, still provide whatever information they ask, so they know exactly who you are.

    and lets please show some respect for our leader. Some of these comments (in this thread) are disgusting.

  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,059

    I saw this, but haven't had time to check elsewhere, is dailykos reputable?

    If this is happening, then I don't know what to say....... it's kind of unbelievable.
    The comments underneath the article say the policy has been in effect since W. I haven't fact checked it.
    Just my opinion, but newly re-empowered DHS agents, like cops with new military toys, don't need to be told twice to "protect us".
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    Idris said:

    Good, Give your passwords when asked. If you have nothing to hide then why worry??
    They need to know who's entering. Born here? So what, still provide whatever information they ask, so they know exactly who you are.

    and lets please show some respect for our leader. Some of these comments (in this thread) are disgusting.

    That's not how it works pal.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    I know the law friend...
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    Tiki said:

    That's not how it works pal.
    yes it is.
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    What Does the Fourth Amendment Protect?

    In the criminal law realm, Fourth Amendment "search and seizure" protections extend to:

    A law enforcement officer's physical apprehension or "seizure" of a person, by way of a stop or arrest; and
    Police searches of places and items in which an individual has a legitimate expectation of privacy -- his or her person, clothing, purse, luggage, vehicle, house, apartment, hotel room, and place of business, to name a few examples.
    The Fourth Amendment provides safeguards to individuals during searches and detentions, and prevents unlawfully seized items from being used as evidence in criminal cases. The degree of protection available in a particular case depends on the nature of the detention or arrest, the characteristics of the place searched, and the circumstances under which the search takes place.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,422
    Idris said:

    Good, Give your passwords when asked. If you have nothing to hide then why worry??
    They need to know who's entering. Born here? So what, still provide whatever information they ask, so they know exactly who you are.

    and lets please show some respect for our leader. Some of these comments (in this thread) are disgusting.

    I'm hoping this is some form of satire.
This discussion has been closed.