Without Government...

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  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    unsung said:

    So you never really own anything. That is your system. Congrats.

    I'm not sure how you manage to equate my paying of property taxes with not owning my own house. A term and condition of a land purchase within the jurisdiction of a nation is that said nation reserves the right to apply taxes to it, to help pay for the services which the government provides. Another term is that the deed on the land is under your own name, and that the government does not have the right to arbitrarily seize your asset. Your refusal of government-offered services means not that you should be exempt from your owed dues (defined at the point of contract creation), but rather that since you find it acceptable to breach the initial contract you and your nation made at the time of purchase, you are better suited for your own society, and should not be privy to the benefits of the collective which request and appreciate those government-offered services.

    Edit: To continue - this may be something that's viable for you, but when you require product or services from within the governed collective, don't be surprised to find out that it costs you four cows (when it should truly cost no more than two), because the government acted in ways which enabled the product/service's creation within its confines at a cost which only one side has incurred. As such, it would want its citizenry to be incentivized to consume from within the nation, and disincentivized from consuming from outside of the nation: in other words, the collective is designed to recognize the value of the collective, and will do what it can to perpetuate that strength, to a disadvantage to you on the outside.
    Ah, so the King's land so pay the King's ransom. Thanks.
    Yes, because the King extended to you the services he extends to each member of society, and you are bound to this contract by virtue of your existence within the confines of the society. Do you believe that work/effort are not worthy of compensation, or do you believe that your side of contractual obligations should be perpetually ignored?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I never signed that social contract.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    unsung said:

    I never signed that social contract.

    So you want services for free?
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    unsung said:

    I never signed that social contract.

    It's not a social contract - it's a contract. It's the terms your parents understood when they gave birth to you in the USA.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • InHiding80
    InHiding80 Upland,CA Posts: 7,623
    unsung said:

    I had a very long reply HFD, but this forum isn't working and it was lost. I give up.

    For a socially liberal libertarian party you're in, you're quite bitter like republicans. Tsk tsk.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    Unanswered repost: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    benjs said:

    Unanswered repost: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Backyard wrasslin'.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,891
    unsung said:

    Without government...

    Who would pay teachers to sit around and do nothing?

    Yep, from 2009, and yep it still goes on.


    http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/06/23/700-nyc-teachers-are-paid-to-do-nothing.html

    I know I'm weeks behind, but just didn't feel like reading nay of this over the holidays.
    That description is a little misleading.
    Many innocent teachers do get accused for various reasons. It would be completely unfair to terminate them without any sort of due process. Same goes for pretty much any public job (and private for that matter if the company doesn't want to get sued for wrongful termination), the employee gets a full paycheck until the investigation is complete and they are found guilty. The difference is any jobs allow their employees to go home, here they are forced to sit in a "rubber room" since they are still paid employees.
    I just don't get what is so unreasonable about continuing to pay someone before they are found guilty of anything, or before an investigation was complete.
    Think back to the IRS scandal a few years ago. Would it be fair to terminate any and all IRS employees suspected to be involved in the targeting scandal without the investigation? That would just be ridiculous. No, they get a paycheck while the investigation is ongoing and until there is proof of wrongdoing. And in this case, still kept their jobs....but whatever. Why is it different for teachers?
    Teachers are people with families who rely on their income, it wouldn't be fair to withhold pay until a proper investigation was complete.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    https://youtu.be/PYhGE5axf2Q
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I forgot about this. Will do, just not tonight. Sleepy time.
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,391
    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    Would still appreciate an answer.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Bentleyspop
    Bentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,516
    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    Would still appreciate an answer.
    It's YOUR fault
    There's YOUR answer
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    Would still appreciate an answer.
    Bottom line in todays environment it cannot be done. I concede that.

    Not until leftists are in their own separate area.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,642
    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    Would still appreciate an answer.
    Bottom line in todays environment it cannot be done. I concede that.

    Not until leftists are in their own separate area.
    So you can have a safe space?
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  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    Would still appreciate an answer.
    Bottom line in todays environment it cannot be done. I concede that.

    Not until leftists are in their own separate area.
    Still convinced the leftys are the big government folks, huh?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,758
    Go Beavers said:

    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    Would still appreciate an answer.
    Bottom line in todays environment it cannot be done. I concede that.

    Not until leftists are in their own separate area.
    Still convinced the leftys are the big government folks, huh?
    historically, they are.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Go Beavers said:

    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    Would still appreciate an answer.
    Bottom line in todays environment it cannot be done. I concede that.

    Not until leftists are in their own separate area.
    Still convinced the leftys are the big government folks, huh?
    historically, they are.
    I'm interested in your evidence.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    dignin said:

    HughFreakingDillon said:

    Go Beavers said:

    unsung said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    benjs said:

    Posting for a third time: unsung, you still haven't addressed my point that over time, all ungoverned societies have organically matured to become governed societies. How do you intend to break this consistent trend? A society of one is a perfect democracy, but a society of greater than one has been exclusively proven to become an imperfect something-ocracy over time.

    Welcome back, unsung. I'd still love an answer to the above.
    Would still appreciate an answer.
    Bottom line in todays environment it cannot be done. I concede that.

    Not until leftists are in their own separate area.
    Still convinced the leftys are the big government folks, huh?
    historically, they are.
    I'm interested in your evidence.
    Same.

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