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America's Gun Violence

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  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    unsung said:

    But you admittedly play on their field.

    Wouldn't you prefer more input?

    Do you own yourself?
    I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

    Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    edited December 2016
    CM189191 said:

    ....in the context of reality...???

    I'm sorry that had to be explicitly stated
    I meant specifically which part you are referring.

    No need to be a db.
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    unsung said:

    I meant specifically which part you are referring.

    No need to be a db.
    You kind of forced my hand with that goofy context question.

    What happens when one of the amendments no longer support the Preamble?
    Don't we have a duty to revise or repeal?

    What other context do you need?
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    unsung said:

    Not really. I can do almost anything I want to, they don't need to know my daily life. I have many avenues where I opt out that most don't.
    I work in insurance. We investigate people all the time. You've not opted out of the system as much as you think you might have. If wet can find you, the FBI CIA DHS NSA ICE ATF can find you. I assure you, your daily life is out there on record to be dug up at any time whether you like it or not.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487

    I do own myself. A big part of this is grasping reality vs perception. Finding what my choices are. Knowing what I can change and what I can't. I know what is worthy of my emotional tension, and what's not.

    Giving input into a flawed human system to create change is different than feeling like I'm in a constant struggle of freedom vs control with the government.
    No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

    I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    unsung said:

    No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

    I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.
    I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,388
    unsung said:

    No, where we differ is you want to be able to control what I do, what I own, tax my earnings, etc.

    I want you to run your own life, keep your money, and as long as you aren't harming others do whatever you want.
    You sound like your bordering on sovereign citizenship.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    Butt hurt Obama is the best gun seller of all time! And I'm not even talking about the "Fast and Furious" stuff!
    http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/12/08/failed-president-really-angry-failed-gut-constitution-eight-years/
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    PJPOWER said:

    Butt hurt Obama is the best gun seller of all time! And I'm not even talking about the "Fast and Furious" stuff!
    http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/12/08/failed-president-really-angry-failed-gut-constitution-eight-years/

    That article isn't about Obama being butt hurt, it's about a segment of the population that's delusional.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487

    I understand taxes are part of a free society. When I know this and understand it, I'm free from feeling victimized from my monthly withholdings.
    But somehow you think government gives you rights.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,817
    unsung said:

    But somehow you think government gives you rights.
    Sounds like your against taxes? So if you're poor and the government doesn't supply any services, who pays for police when you are getting robbed, or the fire department when your house is burning? And if you can't afford private school, you just get a job and work in a factory when you turn 5?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    unsung said:

    But somehow you think government gives you rights.
    I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499

    I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.
    Just for argument sake, are rights like freedom of speech, privacy, etc government rights or are they inalienable rights that governments should not take away?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    PJPOWER said:

    Just for argument sake, are rights like freedom of speech, privacy, etc government rights or are they inalienable rights that governments should not take away?
    They're values created by people and then this manifested into government values as well as cultural values. If there's an amt historian, maybe they could comment how these values bubbled up from the people to the government, or vice-versa. Saying something is an inalienable right is still just a cultural term and words on paper that leads to laws and freedoms. Across the globe we've set up laws and freedoms differently. These are all created by people. Usuing the term inalienable makes me hesistate because it suggests they're sent from above, and some people might take that notion a bit too far with nationalism or this general sense that we're somehow better than the others.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499

    They're values created by people and then this manifested into government values as well as cultural values. If there's an amt historian, maybe they could comment how these values bubbled up from the people to the government, or vice-versa. Saying something is an inalienable right is still just a cultural term and words on paper that leads to laws and freedoms. Across the globe we've set up laws and freedoms differently. These are all created by people. Usuing the term inalienable makes me hesistate because it suggests they're sent from above, and some people might take that notion a bit too far with nationalism or this general sense that we're somehow better than the others.
    So if what I understand you to be saying, no one has any rights to anything without a government telling them they do. I see where you are coming from, but you would have to include all "rights" distinguished in the amendments into that criteria, not just the second. The thing is, though, that "inalienable" rights were exactly what many of the rights in the constitution were based around by the framers of the constitution. They believed that these rights were sent from above and based laws around them. The "right" to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness were believed to be "God given" rights, not government given.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    PJPOWER said:

    So if what I understand you to be saying, no one has any rights to anything without a government telling them they do. I see where you are coming from, but you would have to include all "rights" distinguished in the amendments into that criteria, not just the second. The thing is, though, that "inalienable" rights were exactly what many of the rights in the constitution were based around by the framers of the constitution. They believed that these rights were sent from above and based laws around them. The "right" to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness were believed to be "God given" rights, not government given.
    If the framers thought that, that's cool. But they were their own values, regardless of where those values came from. People wrote those on paper. People made the rules and enforce them, or they don't make rules about other things, i.e. Freedoms. At a very basic level, people gather and work in groups. If you stripped down all the laws tomorrow, we would reconvene in a week or two to make new laws and figure out how to make them and how to enforce them.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487

    I get the whole debate on amt thing, but you can contradict yourself while doing it. You've referenced rights given by the government many times in gun threads, specifically the 2nd amendment. That's a clear example of government giving you rights.
    No, that is not true. 2A is there to protect the existing Right, not to grant it.

    Government can only do two things to Rights, protect them, or take them away.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    unsung said:

    No, that is not true. 2A is there to protect the existing Right, not to grant it.

    Government can only do two things to Rights, protect them, or take them away.
    The 2nd amendement decided to put rules around something. I have the right to own a gun, or a baseball bat. You're coming at it from a different perspective, saying it's inclusion into the Constitution is saying it's a right that needs to be protected. I see it's inclusion as a reference to the militia at the time. It could be seen as a protection to maintain militias and not guns.
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,431
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    mace1229 said:

    Sounds like your against taxes? So if you're poor and the government doesn't supply any services, who pays for police when you are getting robbed, or the fire department when your house is burning? And if you can't afford private school, you just get a job and work in a factory when you turn 5?
    Unsung won't answer questions like this, they are beneath him because they come from statists.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,529
    rgambs said:

    Unsung won't answer questions like this, they are beneath him because they come from statists.
    He solves problems with some backyard 'wrastlin.
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  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    PJPOWER said:
    Who needs laws & regulations?
    (Officer) Yanez now contends he knew Reynolds and Castile had been smoking before he pulled them over that night, as "the smell of marijuana permeated the Castile automobile."
    His lawyers say smoking that evening had effectively rendered Castile's firearms permit invalid: "Narcotic users are not eligible to own, let alone carry, a firearm on their person."
    Judge, Jury and Executioner
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited December 2016
    CM189191 said:

    Who needs laws & regulations?
    (Officer) Yanez now contends he knew Reynolds and Castile had been smoking before he pulled them over that night, as "the smell of marijuana permeated the Castile automobile."
    His lawyers say smoking that evening had effectively rendered Castile's firearms permit invalid: "Narcotic users are not eligible to own, let alone carry, a firearm on their person."
    Judge, Jury and Executioner
    Not sure why you quoted me? Are you arguing against police violence or gun violence? There are quite a few laws regarding an officer's certification to carry and use firearms...? Am I missing something? Maybe your article would be a better fit in the police violence thread? I just pointed out that it is no wonder people are skeptical of new laws and posted the article about New York and their inability to implement them due to the state's inadequacies...
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    reset the clock
    image
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,282
    3 reported dead and nine injured at Ft. Lauderdale Airport shooting.

    Seeing as this happened in Florida, the possible motive runs the entire gambit from ISIS all the way to a disgruntled alligator farmer high on bath salts.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    Jason P said:

    3 reported dead and nine injured at Ft. Lauderdale Airport shooting.

    Seeing as this happened in Florida, the possible motive runs the entire gambit from ISIS all the way to a disgruntled alligator farmer high on bath salts.

    Shooter in custody. Guessing it's not ISIS.
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