Trump

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  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    BS44325 said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    BS44325 said:

    Go Beavers said:

    Talk to me like I'm a novice. Didn't Bush Jr create the vacuum with the Iraq war?

    No. The Iraq war took the lid off Pandora's box and inserted America's military in the epicenter of a collapsing middle east. The withdrawal from Iraq along with the pullback of American leadership globally created the vacuum. It is all in the "knowing what you know now..." thread.
    Took the lid off Pandora's box.

    In other words... served as the catalyst.
    Kind of like starting wild fires in Tennessee and blaming the fire departments for the death and destruction.
    You have the analogy wrong. In some very dry locations forestry services will do something called a "controlled burn". It comes with some risk but the theory is if you burn some areas now it will prevent the almost certain raging fire later. So the correct analogy would be a new fire chief coming in 3/4 of the way through the controlled burn and saying "fuck it...the fire is pretty much under control and this isn't my problem anymore." At that point the raging fire begins.
    Nice of you to compare starting a war on innocents in Iraq and declaring premature victory as a "controlled burn." I wonder if holocaust survivors think of themselves in a similar fashion? No wonder Kissinger is an idol of yours.
    The wildfire analogy is your's I just corrected the inaccuracies. That being said it actually works well in this context...so thank you...you accidentally turned out to be illuminating this one time. However, as you know, there was no "war on innocents" so there are still some things to keep working on.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,262
    Well, Trump just helped save a 1,000 jobs in Indiana at Carrier. Not all jobs will be saved but at least some have. Someone actually gave a damn about real people. These jobs would have stayed gone under the Hillary administration. A drop in the bucket but a start.
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,262
    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html

    An AMT approved media outlet link.
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    bootlegger10 said:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html

    An AMT approved media outlet link.

    "In exchange for keeping the factory running in Indianapolis, Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence are expected to reiterate their campaign pledges to be friendlier to businesses by easing regulations and overhauling the corporate tax code, according to a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump."

    Great, so now I have to subsidize these jerks? What ever have happened to boot straps and personal responsibility? Can't they turn a profit without special favors? Sounds like corporate handouts to me. Don't blame me when the price of air conditioners soars.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,459
    BS44325 said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    BS44325 said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    BS44325 said:

    Go Beavers said:

    Talk to me like I'm a novice. Didn't Bush Jr create the vacuum with the Iraq war?

    No. The Iraq war took the lid off Pandora's box and inserted America's military in the epicenter of a collapsing middle east. The withdrawal from Iraq along with the pullback of American leadership globally created the vacuum. It is all in the "knowing what you know now..." thread.
    Took the lid off Pandora's box.

    In other words... served as the catalyst.
    Kind of like starting wild fires in Tennessee and blaming the fire departments for the death and destruction.
    You have the analogy wrong. In some very dry locations forestry services will do something called a "controlled burn". It comes with some risk but the theory is if you burn some areas now it will prevent the almost certain raging fire later. So the correct analogy would be a new fire chief coming in 3/4 of the way through the controlled burn and saying "fuck it...the fire is pretty much under control and this isn't my problem anymore." At that point the raging fire begins.
    Nice of you to compare starting a war on innocents in Iraq and declaring premature victory as a "controlled burn." I wonder if holocaust survivors think of themselves in a similar fashion? No wonder Kissinger is an idol of yours.
    The wildfire analogy is your's I just corrected the inaccuracies. That being said it actually works well in this context...so thank you...you accidentally turned out to be illuminating this one time. However, as you know, there was no "war on innocents" so there are still some things to keep working on.
    No innocents killed in the invasion and occupation of Iraq? In an unnecessary war? Invading another country under false pretenses and killing innocents isnt waging war on innocents? But when your hero saint Kissinger did the same in Cambodia and Laos, what's a few 100 thousand more brown people in the ash heap of history?

    The fire or "controlled burn" as you so aptly put it, didn't need to be started and was in fact well contained prior to March of 2003 but you'll never admit it was a colossal and abject failure and disaster. Just like you probably believe Kissinger has been the greatest diplomat of the 20th century and shouldn't be branded a war criminal.

    Has Saudi Arabia gotten the bomb yet? The boogeyman Middle East nuclear arms race taken off yet?
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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,459
    Please tell us the fable of how the Sunni Awakening and the 170,000 US troops in Iraq spread peace and democracy throughout the Middle East. Please? We need a great holiday fable to lift our spirits.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,459
    I'm more interested in Trump eradicating ISIS and scrapping the Iranian nuclear deal, plus bringing peace and democracy to Libya and Syria. He campaigned on it, he got elected and he owns it.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,262
    CM189191 said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html

    An AMT approved media outlet link.

    "In exchange for keeping the factory running in Indianapolis, Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence are expected to reiterate their campaign pledges to be friendlier to businesses by easing regulations and overhauling the corporate tax code, according to a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump."

    Great, so now I have to subsidize these jerks? What ever have happened to boot straps and personal responsibility? Can't they turn a profit without special favors? Sounds like corporate handouts to me. Don't blame me when the price of air conditioners soars.
    Saved 1000 jobs.
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,437
    bootlegger10 said:

    CM189191 said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html

    An AMT approved media outlet link.

    "In exchange for keeping the factory running in Indianapolis, Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence are expected to reiterate their campaign pledges to be friendlier to businesses by easing regulations and overhauling the corporate tax code, according to a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump."

    Great, so now I have to subsidize these jerks? What ever have happened to boot straps and personal responsibility? Can't they turn a profit without special favors? Sounds like corporate handouts to me. Don't blame me when the price of air conditioners soars.
    Saved 1000 jobs.
    Yep, give him credit. He did something he campaigned on. Let's not overlook how the deal was cut though. That should matter even more and what it means down the road.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    https://youtu.be/nr57YVOg7qs
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    CM189191 said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html

    An AMT approved media outlet link.

    "In exchange for keeping the factory running in Indianapolis, Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence are expected to reiterate their campaign pledges to be friendlier to businesses by easing regulations and overhauling the corporate tax code, according to a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump."

    Great, so now I have to subsidize these jerks? What ever have happened to boot straps and personal responsibility? Can't they turn a profit without special favors? Sounds like corporate handouts to me. Don't blame me when the price of air conditioners soars.
    Easing regulations or reducing taxes is not you "subsidizing" them. You are not handing your tax dollars to them. Their tax burden is being adjusted. Carrier's net profit is not your money.
  • vaggar99
    vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,431
    The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association lists 12 criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
    1. Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance.
    2. Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it.
    3. Exaggerating your achievements and talents.
    4. Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate.
    5. Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people.
    6. Requiring constant admiration.
    7. Having a sense of entitlement.
    8. Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations.
    9. Taking advantage of others to get what you want.
    10. Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others.
    11. Being envious of others and believing others envy you.
    12. Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner.
    Does anyone come to mind?
  • BS44325
    BS44325 Posts: 6,124
    vaggar99 said:

    The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association lists 12 criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
    1. Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance.
    2. Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it.
    3. Exaggerating your achievements and talents.
    4. Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate.
    5. Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people.
    6. Requiring constant admiration.
    7. Having a sense of entitlement.
    8. Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations.
    9. Taking advantage of others to get what you want.
    10. Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others.
    11. Being envious of others and believing others envy you.
    12. Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner.
    Does anyone come to mind?

    Barack Obama
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,387
    Halifax2TheMax said:

    BS44325 said:

    Halifax2TheMax said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    BS44325 said:

    Go Beavers said:

    Talk to me like I'm a novice. Didn't Bush Jr create the vacuum with the Iraq war?

    No. The Iraq war took the lid off Pandora's box and inserted America's military in the epicenter of a collapsing middle east. The withdrawal from Iraq along with the pullback of American leadership globally created the vacuum. It is all in the "knowing what you know now..." thread.
    Took the lid off Pandora's box.

    In other words... served as the catalyst.
    Kind of like starting wild fires in Tennessee and blaming the fire departments for the death and destruction.
    You have the analogy wrong. In some very dry locations forestry services will do something called a "controlled burn". It comes with some risk but the theory is if you burn some areas now it will prevent the almost certain raging fire later. So the correct analogy would be a new fire chief coming in 3/4 of the way through the controlled burn and saying "fuck it...the fire is pretty much under control and this isn't my problem anymore." At that point the raging fire begins.
    Nice of you to compare starting a war on innocents in Iraq and declaring premature victory as a "controlled burn." I wonder if holocaust survivors think of themselves in a similar fashion? No wonder Kissinger is an idol of yours.
    I took this so differently. Regardless of whether or not there was need for starting the war, Iraq became a controlled burn at the point of invasion: without adequate supervision, there existed the potential for chaos - which is where Obama's leadership was put to test by the strategy he chose. Of his four options - put more troops in, leave the same number of troops there, bring home some troops, completely withdraw - you could argue that he picked an option with a lot of volatility, especially given being warned about the potential for power vacuums to be filled by terrorist cells.

    I've seen this go back and forth on these boards for ages on the topic of Iraq, but I'll say that a President should be judged not only by the messes they create, but how they react to the messes they inherit - this is why a President must think holistically about an issue, be it domestic or foreign. On Iraq, Bush's creation of mess does not justify or excuse a bad report card on Obama's administration's Iraqi performance.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,387
    vaggar99 said:

    The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association lists 12 criteria for Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
    1. Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance.
    2. Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it.
    3. Exaggerating your achievements and talents.
    4. Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate.
    5. Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people.
    6. Requiring constant admiration.
    7. Having a sense of entitlement.
    8. Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations.
    9. Taking advantage of others to get what you want.
    10. Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others.
    11. Being envious of others and believing others envy you.
    12. Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner.
    Does anyone come to mind?

    If I took ten random people and put them in a room, I could probably diagnose at least half of them with Narcissistic Personality Disorder based on that loose definition. Several of these these traits are things that millennials are accused of having on a regular basis - do you think anyone between the ages of 10-35 today should avoid politics entirely for this reason?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • vaggar99
    vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,431
    ^^^meeting all 12 is pretty rare, although I know a few people who could probably meet 10 or 11 of the 12
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,387
    vaggar99 said:

    ^^^meeting all 12 is pretty rare, although I know a few people who could probably meet 10 or 11 of the 12

    And you'd rally the populace to ensure those people never entered the public arena based on those grounds?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • vaggar99
    vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,431
    ^^^his narcissism is perhaps the root cause of his sick behavior. that's my only point here
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,322
    bootlegger10 said:

    Well, Trump just helped save a 1,000 jobs in Indiana at Carrier. Not all jobs will be saved but at least some have. Someone actually gave a damn about real people. These jobs would have stayed gone under the Hillary administration. A drop in the bucket but a start.

    Not often that campaign pledges are kept. And he hasn't even been sworn in yet.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,322
    CM189191 said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/business/trump-to-announce-carrier-plant-will-keep-jobs-in-us.html

    An AMT approved media outlet link.

    "In exchange for keeping the factory running in Indianapolis, Mr. Trump and Mr. Pence are expected to reiterate their campaign pledges to be friendlier to businesses by easing regulations and overhauling the corporate tax code, according to a spokeswoman for Mr. Trump."

    Great, so now I have to subsidize these jerks? What ever have happened to boot straps and personal responsibility? Can't they turn a profit without special favors? Sounds like corporate handouts to me. Don't blame me when the price of air conditioners soars.
    If you don't negotiate, you have zero jobs. You have no taxes to collect. You have nothing except 2000 people going on unemployment.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
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