How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your...

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  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    Free said:

    How, if at all, has this year's US presidential election affected your outlook on US politics and your party affiliation
    I've suspected the two-party system; Dems and Republicans – or one and the same for the past eight years. Now it is blatantly obvious that they are one in the same, a dark comedy, fear-inducing horror film - serial on stage in front of The American public for all to see. I used to think the Dems were relatively decent if I had to pick between the two. But now they are just as dirty if not dirtier than Republicans w/ The DNC and DWS drama.

    Thankfully though, the media is really revealing itself this election and how corrupt they are, it's nothing new, but it's really really obvious and pissing people off now. Finally people are catching on to the dirty tactics of the media.
    All of that is true if dirt and corruption are the only thing you care about, but if you still care about a range of issues the parties are not the same at all. Trump is out there parading his support for trickle down economics, they are trying to defund the biggest provider of free health care for women, they are advocating for draconian laws that would make us a Christian caliphate, they consider global warming a Chinese hoax, and their SCOTUS picks would uphold Citizens United for eternity....to name of few of the huge differences.

    To call the parties the same is just foolish, unless you are speaking only in terms of dirty politics and protecting the big banks.



    Ha! They are totally In cahoots with each other with the media to get what they want: power over the people. This is just one example:
    Holt claimed that the event was “sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization. The commission drafted tonight’s format, and the rules have been agreed to by the campaigns.”

    While the CPD certainly controls much of the event, it’s not a “nonpartisan” organization at all. It’s about as far from nonpartisan as you can get. It’s totally bipartisan. It’s a creation of the Democratic and Republican parties designed to solidify their dominance over the public.

    Its origins are in an agreement “Memorandum of Agreement on Presidential Candidate Joint Appearances” from 1985 signed by Frank J. Fahrenkopf Jr., then Chairman of the Republican National Committee, and Paul G. Kirk Jr., then Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. The two would go on to head the CPD.

    But that original agreement didn’t even have the word “debates” in it. This Commission is the mechanism by which the Democratic and Republican parties came together to push aside the League of Women Voters, which had organized presidential debates before 1988. It was to make sure that the campaigns, not some independent entity, would decide on moderators, on formats — and to critically exclude other participants unless both sides agreed. They simply wanted to ensure “televised joint appearances” — which became emblematic of a pretense of democratic discourse.

    Holt’s fabrication — he can’t possibly be ignorant of this — is really a root problem of our politics. All the lies and spin from Clinton and Trump largely manifest themselves because each side excuses them because “the other” is worse. That is, the very “bipartisan” structure of our elections is in large part responsible for the dynamics we’re seeing.
    http://disinfo.com/2016/09/the-biggest-lie-was-from-lester-holt-its-killing-our-democracy-heres-how-to-solve-it/



    Ok, cool.
    What does that have to do with SCOTUS appointees, Planned Parenthood, global warming, trickle down economics, "religious freedom" laws, gun control, the Iran Deal, etc etc.

    You proved my point, the people who consider the parties to be the same are near to obsessed with notions of corruption and have little care for the range of issues that separate the parties.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    Oh, and you can deny it's happening all you want. The fact is the League of Women Voters was pushed aside so a bipartisan group could control the debates and the moderators who work them, ensuring that it's well-controlled, keeping third parties out, and keeping the system in check. The two-party system.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
    My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
    We have choices, and they matter.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Free said:

    Oh, and you can deny it's happening all you want. The fact is the League of Women Voters was pushed aside so a bipartisan group could control the debates and the moderators who work them, ensuring that it's well-controlled, keeping third parties out, and keeping the system in check. The two-party system.

    I am not denying it at all. I accept that.

    Now, again, what does that have do with SCOTUS appointees, Planned Parenthood, global warming, trickle down economics, "religious freedom" laws, gun control, the Iran Deal, etc etc.????
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    rgambs said:

    I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
    My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
    We have choices, and they matter.

    Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
    My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
    We have choices, and they matter.

    Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.
    You sound write that on a sandwich board and roam around the city spreading that gospel!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    You still didn't answer my question about the issues...
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
    My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
    We have choices, and they matter.

    Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.
    Looks like an answer to me.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
    My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
    We have choices, and they matter.

    Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.
    Looks like an answer to me.
    Looks like paranoid delusion to me.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    edited October 2016
    rgambs said:

    unsung said:

    Free said:

    rgambs said:

    I understand the argument that the structures of power are aligned to keep power and dominate the people. I don't disagree.
    My disagreement arises when it is suggested that they are all in cahoots and all choices are illusion. That's simply false. If you think the forces behind the GOP aren't desperate for power in a way that is diametrically opposed to the Dems, you aren't seeing clearly.
    We have choices, and they matter.

    Choices are an illusion. The chosen one has already been chosen, the system is rigged.
    Looks like an answer to me.
    Looks like paranoid delusion to me.
    Ok, keep believing whatever you want. We all have that choice. :coffee:
    Post edited by Free on
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    JWPearl said:

    Im sick of hearing about the election on the news, why cant the election just go on for like a month, vote and be done with it ? instead we have to know whos sick, who made a sexist remark, oh and now they are questionable failures, sick of seeing the news captions....
    im so glad i dont vote and only support Gods kingdom of ruler ship which will happen as Jesus said my kingdom is no part of this world and if it were he would not have been delivered up (John 18;36) But eventually his kingdom with be with the new world and will crush all other kingdoms and it will be a war with the only winner being God and Jesus because the power is from them that exists anywhere in the universe.. (Daniel 2;44,45) (2 Corinthians 4;7)Roman 1;18-(20)-23

    So in Jehovah Witness world, who makes the rules and who enforces them?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    unsung said:

    It convinced me to no longer vote.

    The system is beyond repair, only a complete and total destruction will bring about change. Thankfully these two give change the best opportunity for that to happen.

    Unless somehow Ron Paul got 50% of the vote in 2012. Then you'd declare some sort of revolution. Point being, we can vote in whomever we want, and the system exists to do so.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Had Ron Paul received 50% of the vote in 2012 we wouldn't be in this shit situation that we are.

    But like heroin too many people can't control their own lives and are hooked on government.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,671
    unsung said:

    Had Ron Paul received 50% of the vote in 2012 we wouldn't be in this shit situation that we are.

    But like heroin too many people can't control their own lives and are hooked on government.

    A tasty metaphor, unsung, but you could also look at it like "too many people can't live their lives in a sensible manner so government is necessary to put some boundaries on their reckless behavior."

    Your "no government" idealism is probably the better choice except (at least in this country) left to their own devices, the general populous will just make clusterfuck out over everything and they need government to keep themselves from spinning into chaos.

    And believe me, I'm all for idealism.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Does an individual own themselves or not?
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Idealism is nice and all, but is trumped by realism. Or, to me at least, should be...and is, for me.

    Just because boundaries are put in place (we're talking laws?), it doesn't mean they'll be adhered to. They don't necessarily curb the behaviors that bring about those guidelines in the first place.

    There's a great passage from Ishmael that illustrates this far better than I.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:

    Does an individual own themselves or not?

    Only insofar as they can defend themselves from ownership by another.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Are you advocating the assault? Or does that person own themselves?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,618
    unsung said:

    Are you advocating the assault? Or does that person own themselves?

    The philosophical debate can be interesting, but I've said it in here before, but when Ron Paul and the others start making decisions about laws, they end up wanting it as much as anyone else, just individualized to meet their needs and values.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    unsung said:

    Are you advocating the assault? Or does that person own themselves?

    I don't understand the question.


    What I meant is that a person is not only as free as they wish to be, they are bound by the amount of freedom that outside forces allow them to have.
    A person has ownership of themselves but that ownership can be usurped by individuals, corporations/groups, and governments.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?

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