America's Gun Violence
Comments
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1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable0 -
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable0 -
A guy breaks into my house , steals my gun, uses it in a crime and I am responsible? What the fuck are you smoking?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountableI'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Yes. Pot.mcgruff10 said:
A guy breaks into my house , steals my gun, uses it in a crime and I am responsible? What the fuck are you smoking?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable0 -
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.0 -
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
The question wasn't where do most guns committed in crimes come from. The question was where do most gang members get their guns.
The majority of guns owned by gang members are not legally owned. Firearms are tracked, typically if you are buying a gun from someone on the street who isn't going to register it, that gun was stolen.
They already do keep track of handguns. If its on a national level I'm not sure, but if it isn't, it would be just a matter of getting that information from state to state.
The assumption that your gun was stolen so therefore you are an irresponsible gun owner is also incorrect. That very well may be true, but not always the case. really only the 1000 pound gun safes tat are fireproof are a major deflector of theft. Gun locks and smaller safes designed to keep kids out wouldn't necessarily stop a thief rummaging through your house, but I wouldn't consider them bad gun owners.0 -
I don't think he meant you are responsible for the crime. But should be held accountable for not being a responsible gun owner. That was my take on the comment. I don't think that is always true though.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.
I believe you can be responsible to a certain level if it was not properly locked up and there is a minor living in your house who uses it in a crime. Now if the kid goes and kills someone I don't think you'd be charged with murder, but be held accountable for something.Post edited by mace1229 on0 -
Yeah but there s no law that says you have to put guns in a safe. I get what you are saying but if something of mine is stolen then whatever that person does with it is out of my hands.mace1229 said:
I don't think he meant you are responsible for the crime. But should be held accountable for not being a responsible gun owner. That was my take on the comment. I don't think that is always true though.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.
I believe you can be responsible to a certain level if it was not properly locked up and there is a minor living in your house who uses it in a crime. Now if the kid goes and kills someone I don't think you'd be charged with murder, but be held accountable for something.
I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
With great power comes great responsibility. It's your gun and you're the responsible gun owner. It's known as vicarious liability. If you're that worried about it, perhaps there should be some sort of mandatory gun insurance. Although I'm betting it would be prohibitively expensive.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.0 -
do you have any evidence of this being used against gun owners who's firearms were stolen and then used in a crime?CM189191 said:
With great power comes great responsibility. It's your gun and you're the responsible gun owner. It's known as vicarious liability. If you're that worried about it, perhaps there should be some sort of mandatory gun insurance. Although I'm betting it would be prohibitively expensive.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.Post edited by mcgruff10 onI'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
No, you wouldn't be held responsible under the current laws. In fact, some states have no fault laws which basically state injured parties will immediately receive compensation for medical treatment regardless of who is at fault. But that certainly won't stop anyone from suing you for wrongful death.mcgruff10 said:
i m not worried about it all as it makes zero sense.CM189191 said:
With great power comes great responsibility. It's your gun and you're the responsible gun owner. It's known as vicarious liability. If you're that worried about it, perhaps there should be some sort of mandatory gun insurance. Although I'm betting it would be prohibitively expensive.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.
So I m the responsible owner of my car. A drunk guy steals it and rams into another car and kills everyone on board. I m somehow responsible?
But we're not talking about cars, we're talking about guns. Try to keep up. I'm suggesting that if you own a gun, and it gets used in a crime, you should be held accountable as being party to that crime. You should be happy, this way to get to keep your shiny toy. Just keep track of it.
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unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
The government.fife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?0 -
This attitude rears it's head on a variety of issues. For example, responsible dog owners who raise a pitbull that chews a child's face off point at the dog claiming, "It had never done anything like that before. I don't know what got into it, but it's certainly not my fault" (as they run off to purchase another one).CM189191 said:
With great power comes great responsibility. It's your gun and you're the responsible gun owner. It's known as vicarious liability. If you're that worried about it, perhaps there should be some sort of mandatory gun insurance. Although I'm betting it would be prohibitively expensive.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.
Well. Thank gawd it had only chewed one kid's face off.
If you raise a dog, cougar, bear, snake, chimpanzee... or some other dangerous animal that chews a kid's face off... you are responsible. It was your decision to take responsibility for the care and ownership of the animal and you neglected that responsibility which resulted in bodily harm.
If you want a gun... fair enough. But don't shrug your shoulders when it is lifted from your glove compartment and say, "Meh. What are you gonna do" as you drive over to the Big 5 Sporting Goods to purchase two more in their 2 for 1 red light special event. Be prepared to face the consequences. For example, if all guns were registered and you were only allowed one handgun... and your handgun goes missing... then you don't get another one."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Dude you are saying it was STOLEN! How is this on me? What consequences could there be if it was stolen? Find me one case where a gun owner was sued because his gun was used in a crime after it was stolen. This is assinnine thinking.Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
This attitude rears it's head on a variety of issues. For example, responsible dog owners who raise a pitbull that chews a child's face off point at the dog claiming, "It had never done anything like that before. I don't know what got into it, but it's certainly not my fault" (as they run off to purchase another one).CM189191 said:
With great power comes great responsibility. It's your gun and you're the responsible gun owner. It's known as vicarious liability. If you're that worried about it, perhaps there should be some sort of mandatory gun insurance. Although I'm betting it would be prohibitively expensive.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.
Well. Thank gawd it had only chewed one kid's face off.
If you raise a dog, cougar, bear, snake, chimpanzee... or some other dangerous animal that chews a kid's face off... you are responsible. It was your decision to take responsibility for the care and ownership of the animal and you neglected that responsibility which resulted in bodily harm.
If you want a gun... fair enough. But don't shrug your shoulders when it is lifted from your glove compartment and say, "Meh. What are you gonna do" as you drive over to the Big 5 Sporting Goods to purchase two more in their 2 for 1 red light special event. Be prepared to face the consequences. For example, if all guns were registered and you were only allowed one handgun... and your handgun goes missing... then you don't get another one.
Hell with this type of thinking let s go with the ten club: you sell your extra ten club ticket to a member on the board for face value. They in turn sell that same ticket for ten times the face value to a scalper named "Kat". They trace that ticket to your account and your ten club privelages are now revoked for life.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Do you REALLY want to use car ownership as an analogy?CM189191 said:
No, you wouldn't be held responsible under the current laws. In fact, some states have no fault laws which basically state injured parties will immediately receive compensation for medical treatment regardless of who is at fault. But that certainly won't stop anyone from suing you for wrongful death.mcgruff10 said:
i m not worried about it all as it makes zero sense.CM189191 said:
With great power comes great responsibility. It's your gun and you're the responsible gun owner. It's known as vicarious liability. If you're that worried about it, perhaps there should be some sort of mandatory gun insurance. Although I'm betting it would be prohibitively expensive.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.
So I m the responsible owner of my car. A drunk guy steals it and rams into another car and kills everyone on board. I m somehow responsible?
But we're not talking about cars, we're talking about guns. Try to keep up. I'm suggesting that if you own a gun, and it gets used in a crime, you should be held accountable as being party to that crime. You should be happy, this way to get to keep your shiny toy. Just keep track of it.
Let's assume you're married. And you managed not to shoot your spouse with an accidental discharge or during a domestic quarrel. My money's on suicide, but I digress.
Now your spouse steals your car, runs a red light and gets a camera ticket. Or gets a parking ticket. You, as the owner of the vehicle, will be held responsible for those tickets until you can account for what actually happened. And if you can't, you're on the hook.
Why should this be any different than: "Sir, we found your gun at the scene of the murder and have a few questions we'd like to ask you."
Now let's take a look at the layers upon layers of laws and regulation that make that scenario unlikely. You need a driver's license. You need to take a test to get that license. You have to renew that license. You need to register that car when you purchase it. You have to register it when you sell it. You need to operate that vehicle within the rules of the road. That car has to have mirrors, seat belts, an airbag, and any number of safety features. You need to carry valid insurance on that car in the event something happens to your car, or if the driver of that vehicle causes damages to someone else.
If guns were regulated 1/2 as well as cars are, maybe we'd actually see a significant reduction in gun related violence and death.
Or do you just like to drag out the car analogy when it's convenient?0 -
Your original thesis was, gun owners should be held responsible if their stolen guns are used in a crime. So yes I like the car analogy. If someone steals my car and kills four people I am not responsible. If someone breaks open my safe, cuts the gun lock/pried open the trigger lock and uses that gun in a crime, I am not responsible.CM189191 said:
Do you REALLY want to use car ownership as an analogy?CM189191 said:
No, you wouldn't be held responsible under the current laws. In fact, some states have no fault laws which basically state injured parties will immediately receive compensation for medical treatment regardless of who is at fault. But that certainly won't stop anyone from suing you for wrongful death.mcgruff10 said:
i m not worried about it all as it makes zero sense.CM189191 said:
With great power comes great responsibility. It's your gun and you're the responsible gun owner. It's known as vicarious liability. If you're that worried about it, perhaps there should be some sort of mandatory gun insurance. Although I'm betting it would be prohibitively expensive.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.
So I m the responsible owner of my car. A drunk guy steals it and rams into another car and kills everyone on board. I m somehow responsible?
But we're not talking about cars, we're talking about guns. Try to keep up. I'm suggesting that if you own a gun, and it gets used in a crime, you should be held accountable as being party to that crime. You should be happy, this way to get to keep your shiny toy. Just keep track of it.
Let's assume you're married. And you managed not to shoot your spouse with an accidental discharge or during a domestic quarrel. My money's on suicide, but I digress.
Now your spouse steals your car, runs a red light and gets a camera ticket. Or gets a parking ticket. You, as the owner of the vehicle, will be held responsible for those tickets until you can account for what actually happened. And if you can't, you're on the hook.
Why should this be any different than: "Sir, we found your gun at the scene of the murder and have a few questions we'd like to ask you."
Now let's take a look at the layers upon layers of laws and regulation that make that scenario unlikely. You need a driver's license. You need to take a test to get that license. You have to renew that license. You need to register that car when you purchase it. You have to register it when you sell it. You need to operate that vehicle within the rules of the road. That car has to have mirrors, seat belts, an airbag, and any number of safety features. You need to carry valid insurance on that car in the event something happens to your car, or if the driver of that vehicle causes damages to someone else.
If guns were regulated 1/2 as well as cars are, maybe we'd actually see a significant reduction in gun related violence and death.
Or do you just like to drag out the car analogy when it's convenient?
And what the hell are you talking about in your second paragraph?I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
Yeah, there's a crazy leap being made in terms of responsibility. If you left your gun on the sidewalk in front of your house and someone picked it up and committed a crime with it, there may be a case to be made for some sort of contributory negligence. But if someone breaks into your house, where you have a reasonable expectation of security and privacy, and steals any object (gun, knife, hammer, nail file), and commits a crime with it, there is no way you have any negligence or culpability."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080
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Thank you for the opportunity to clarify my position. My suggestion is: If the gun you own gets used in a crime, you should be held accountable. Whether your gun was stolen, lost, or loaned it to a friend; you should be considered an accomplice to whatever crime occurred.mcgruff10 said:
Your original thesis was, gun owners should be held responsible if their stolen guns are used in a crime. So yes I like the car analogy. If someone steals my car and kills four people I am not responsible. If someone breaks open my safe, cuts the gun lock/pried open the trigger lock and uses that gun in a crime, I am not responsible.CM189191 said:
Do you REALLY want to use car ownership as an analogy?CM189191 said:
No, you wouldn't be held responsible under the current laws. In fact, some states have no fault laws which basically state injured parties will immediately receive compensation for medical treatment regardless of who is at fault. But that certainly won't stop anyone from suing you for wrongful death.mcgruff10 said:
i m not worried about it all as it makes zero sense.CM189191 said:
With great power comes great responsibility. It's your gun and you're the responsible gun owner. It's known as vicarious liability. If you're that worried about it, perhaps there should be some sort of mandatory gun insurance. Although I'm betting it would be prohibitively expensive.mcgruff10 said:
Again, my gun is stolen and used in a crime. How am I responsible?CM189191 said:
Most guns used in crimes are not stolen. They are usually purchased through legal means, straw purchases, borrowed from friends, etc.fife said:
sorry what is not true?CM189191 said:
1) this isn't truemace1229 said:
stolen, then sold illegallyfife said:
can i asked where they are getting their guns from?PJPOWER said:
Exactly, and these gang members are getting their guns from the same places they're getting their drugs. I highly doubt they would all the sudden jump through legal hoops created by further buyer restrictions in order to obtain their firearms.unsung said:I know, I know, you don't want to reduce your voting base.
Ok fine, can we at least call it what it is?
I'm Chicago metro, all they talk about is gun violence, yet I think it's gang violence.
Does that make sense or am I misguided in wanted to address the source?
2) if your gun gets stolen and is used in a crime, you are not a responsible gun owner and should be held accountable
But let's assume most guns used in crimes are stolen - perhaps we should have some sort of national registry. That way we could keep track of who owns what guns where. This would help solve crime and hold irresponsible gun owners accountable.
So I m the responsible owner of my car. A drunk guy steals it and rams into another car and kills everyone on board. I m somehow responsible?
But we're not talking about cars, we're talking about guns. Try to keep up. I'm suggesting that if you own a gun, and it gets used in a crime, you should be held accountable as being party to that crime. You should be happy, this way to get to keep your shiny toy. Just keep track of it.
Let's assume you're married. And you managed not to shoot your spouse with an accidental discharge or during a domestic quarrel. My money's on suicide, but I digress.
Now your spouse steals your car, runs a red light and gets a camera ticket. Or gets a parking ticket. You, as the owner of the vehicle, will be held responsible for those tickets until you can account for what actually happened. And if you can't, you're on the hook.
Why should this be any different than: "Sir, we found your gun at the scene of the murder and have a few questions we'd like to ask you."
Now let's take a look at the layers upon layers of laws and regulation that make that scenario unlikely. You need a driver's license. You need to take a test to get that license. You have to renew that license. You need to register that car when you purchase it. You have to register it when you sell it. You need to operate that vehicle within the rules of the road. That car has to have mirrors, seat belts, an airbag, and any number of safety features. You need to carry valid insurance on that car in the event something happens to your car, or if the driver of that vehicle causes damages to someone else.
If guns were regulated 1/2 as well as cars are, maybe we'd actually see a significant reduction in gun related violence and death.
Or do you just like to drag out the car analogy when it's convenient?
And what the hell are you talking about in your second paragraph?0 -
You're choosing to own a 'tool' that is designed specifically to kill. That's not a small responsibility.
And it's far from making the choice to own a tool designed specifically for transportation or a tool designed specifically to pound nails that gets stolen and harm becomes of it.
You want a gun? Okay. Let's check your background. Looks good... you can have one. It comes with a caveat though: take really good f**king care of it. If it falls into the wrong hands there will be some form of consequence (a small child that shoots another small child... or a thief that took it as it lied in your glove compartment or bedside hutch).
F**K man. You want guns and you also want to operate them with impunity.
And you talk of asinine?"My brain's a good brain!"0
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