America's Gun Violence

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  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited September 2016
    mcgruff10 said:

    I absolutely love Canada! It s a shame your hockey teams suck.
    Hahahaha

    Blue Jays are better than the Yankees though.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576

    It is against the law for anyone to transfer a firearm or ammunition to anyone known or believed to be prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition.
    It is against the law (with rare exceptions) for anyone to transfer a handgun to a non-dealer who resides in another state.
    It is against the law for a non-dealer to transfer any firearm to a non-dealer who resides in another state.

    If you search for this, it's not hard to find. Just because you break the law and do not get caught does not mean you haven't broken the law
    I don't have to do ANYTHING to verify any of those points. If I don't ask, and they don't tell, I haven't broken any law.
    Any regulation that operates on the honor system is the same as no regulation at all.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Stickman12Stickman12 Posts: 504
    edited September 2016
    rgambs said:

    I don't have to do ANYTHING to verify any of those points. If I don't ask, and they don't tell, I haven't broken any law.
    Any regulation that operates on the honor system is the same as no regulation at all.
    Well then you would be the poster child for an irresponsible gun owner. Every private gun sale or trade that I have done has included a bill of sale that includes a signature that has the same questions as a NICS background check. Sure people can deceive and lie but taking that route proves that there was some diligence and a paper trail on that firearm. Using the argument that I did not ask or did not know would probably not work out good for you in court if the person you sold to was unqualified and the firearm was used in a crime.
    Post edited by Stickman12 on
  • Stickman12Stickman12 Posts: 504
    edited September 2016
    .
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,030

    Hahahaha

    Blue Jays are better than the Yankees though.
    first time since 1993! and that's the last time canada won the stanley cup!!!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,423
    edited September 2016
    dudeman said:

    That being the case for the RCMP, I guess I really don't understand why people would object to the fact that they are armed.
    I already told you in clear terms.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,423

    I haven't ever expressed that, no. I can't speak for everybody else but I don't recall reading that here.
    No, nobody has ever said that.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,143
    mcgruff10 said:

    People on these forums crack me up. Anti gunners make fun of pro gun because they want "assault weapons", stock up, hoard ammo or prepare because they don't trust the government. Same people feel worried/scared/intimated because the government trains individuals to carry actual assault weapons in public.

    There's no way that I can understand the intricacies of this argument.
    rgambs said:

    I don't have to do ANYTHING to verify any of those points. If I don't ask, and they don't tell, I haven't broken any law.
    Any regulation that operates on the honor system is the same as no regulation at all.
    The fact that you are ignorant of the laws pertaining to legal sale and transfer of firearms only proves the point that the current laws aren't being enforced.

    I think we are in agreement that this is a problem.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,143
    PJ_Soul said:

    I already told you in clear terms.

    OK. Seeing the RCMP "bearing arms" at political events makes you feel uncomfortable. Got it.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,143

    If it helps, I can explain my discomfort at seeing our Gardaí (police) armed. We have never had an armed police force, only specially trained assault teams have been armed and very occasionally deployed to areas like Limerick which have had some issues with gang violence. So when I see an armed Garda, it makes me nervous and uncomfortable because it suggests a level of danger that is unfamiliar to us in Ireland. For the Gardaí to feel the need to arm themselves, it tells us that there is something to fear, so it is the implication of the gun that worries me as much as the idea of them using it. I trust both our government and our police force and I know that they will not use armed force unless they believe it to be absolutely necessary.
    This does help. Thank you. That was well stated and I appreciate and respect your perspective.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,423
    edited September 2016
    dudeman said:


    OK. Seeing the RCMP "bearing arms" at political events makes you feel uncomfortable. Got it.
    That is actually not at all an accurate recap of what I said. I talked about the sense of oppression created by an atmosphere of guns. Hey, you might not get it, as many Americans don't, but the rest of the developed world obviously does, so maybe that should tell you something.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    dudeman said:

    There's no way that I can understand the intricacies of this argument. The fact that you are ignorant of the laws pertaining to legal sale and transfer of firearms only proves the point that the current laws aren't being enforced.

    I think we are in agreement that this is a problem.
    Oh, I must be mistaken, do I need to see an I.D. and get a background check before selling privately?
    I dont think so.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,143
    rgambs said:

    Oh, I must be mistaken, do I need to see an I.D. and get a background check before selling privately?
    I dont think so.
    It's your responsibility to make sure that you aren't selling guns to people who can't legally own them.

    I agree that the current system needs to be improved and that every firearm transfer should go through a FFL dealer with a NICS check.

    As it stands, if you neglect to determine that the person buying a gun from you privately is a felon, or can't legally otherwise own guns, and that person uses that gun for illegal purposes, you are legally responsible.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 3,143
    PJ_Soul said:

    Yeah, that's my point: Canadians are different in their mindset about it. RCMP wielding assault weapons at a ceremony is offensive to Canadians, and alarming. We don't think of guns in the same way as Americans do. And while guns are indeed scary and dangerous, our lack of gun culture is not about guns looking scary. It's because we are actually not scared, and therefore don't feel that we need to be oppressed by guns. We don't want that kind of fear, and gun culture creates that kind of fear.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,423
    edited September 2016
    dudeman said:

    I don't understand why you have reposted this with those highlights. What point are you trying to make? I sense you might be misinterpreting me somehow? I assume you think this proves the some point you've made? I don't see how, nor why you highlighted those two separate sentences.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 43,558

    Well then you would be the poster child for an irresponsible gun owner. Every private gun sale or trade that I have done has included a bill of sale that includes a signature that has the same questions as a NICS background check. Sure people can deceive and lie but taking that route proves that there was some diligence and a paper trail on that firearm. Using the argument that I did not ask or did not know would probably not work out good for you in court if the person you sold to was unqualified and the firearm was used in a crime.
    in ohio where we live , for a person to person sale ,asking isnt a requirement to complete a private sale.
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  • mickeyrat said:

    in ohio where we live , for a person to person sale ,asking isnt a requirement to complete a private sale.
    You are completely correct. It is the same where I live in Indiana. Being a responsible gun owner means doing SOMETHING to make sure you aren't selling to an unqualified person. Doing something is not required by law but doing nothing and selling to an unqualified person who uses that firearm in a crime can still come back to you despite not having the requirement by law to do ask, doing a FFL transfer, or any other method. By doing nothing you can leave yourself open to being prosecuted if in that situation. I'm not saying it's a good situation but it is the law. No one wants to put themselves in a situation where you may have to do jail time for not doing your diligence.
  • jeffbrjeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    In 2014 Washington State passed an initiative to take away the gun show loophole and require background checks. There are a few exceptions (like immediate family), and I think it is a sensible piece of legislation that would create more accountability in regards to private sales. I think it addresses what RGambs was talking about.

    http://smartgunlaws.org/private-sales-in-washington/
    In 2014, Washington became the first state to enact a law requiring background checks on private sales by voter initiative.1 The law requires private buyers and sellers to conduct a firearms transaction through a federally licensed firearm dealer (FFL). The FFL must process the transaction as if the dealer were selling the firearm from his or her own inventory and comply with all federal and state laws regulating firearms dealers, such as performing the required background check on the purchaser (see the Washington Background Checks section).
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,224
    I was at my buddy's cottage over the weekend. I noticed the shotgun that used to sit above the fireplace was gone. He said that when his dad died, his dad being the only registered firearms user, the cops came and took it and gave my buddy a tax receipt for a charitible donation. this would have made national headlines in the states. my buddy was like "yeah, makes sense".
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    I was at my buddy's cottage over the weekend. I noticed the shotgun that used to sit above the fireplace was gone. He said that when his dad died, his dad being the only registered firearms user, the cops came and took it and gave my buddy a tax receipt for a charitible donation. this would have made national headlines in the states. my buddy was like "yeah, makes sense".

    ohhhh yeah that would never work at my house but guess if the people give up their right to gun ownership then that's what they get, kind of scary in my opinion that the police can come to your home and take a family possession be it a gun or anything else.

    Godfather.

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,423
    edited September 2016

    ohhhh yeah that would never work at my house but guess if the people give up their right to gun ownership then that's what they get, kind of scary in my opinion that the police can come to your home and take a family possession be it a gun or anything else.

    Godfather.

    Aren't you against drugs? What if the cops came and took away the family pot stash now that grandpa, the only one with the medical marijuana card, died? The solution would be for the others to go and get their own medical marijuana card so they can legally keep the stash in the house. This is no different. I'm sure someone could have become a registered firearms user themselves and kept the gun, but they didn't.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    edited September 2016
    PJ_Soul.........I'm just going to leave that one alone, back in the(very early) 80's they did come and take the family stash LOL ! and they weren't very nice about it either LOL !!!!!

    Godfather.
  • rssesqrssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    they came and took your buds granddad's rifle? they should try dealin with Hastings street instead of worrying about confiscating honest people's rifles in Vancouver. imo
    And one can really use a rifle up there what with all the moose attacks, lmao
  • rssesqrssesq Fairfield County Posts: 3,299
    this is how the brownshirts rounded up the arms in Germany, lol

    I was at my buddy's cottage over the weekend. I noticed the shotgun that used to sit above the fireplace was gone. He said that when his dad died, his dad being the only registered firearms user, the cops came and took it and gave my buddy a tax receipt for a charitible donation. this would have made national headlines in the states. my buddy was like "yeah, makes sense".

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,423
    rssesq said:

    they came and took your buds granddad's rifle? they should try dealin with Hastings street instead of worrying about confiscating honest people's rifles in Vancouver. imo
    And one can really use a rifle up there what with all the moose attacks, lmao

    HFD lives in Winnipeg, not Vancouver.
    At any rate, if they'd don't what needed to be done to keep the gun they could have kept it. Sounds like they chose not to bother. This is a very good thing to me. If family could just legally keep the guns of those who died without doing any paperwork or meeting any criteria, that would be pretty damn stupid. Who knows where those guns might end up.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,224
    rssesq said:

    they came and took your buds granddad's rifle? they should try dealin with Hastings street instead of worrying about confiscating honest people's rifles in Vancouver. imo
    And one can really use a rifle up there what with all the moose attacks, lmao

    Winnipeg. My buddy's dad. No one was a registered firearms user, as pj soul said, had he been, he could have applied to keep it. he didn't. it's gone. no harm, no foul. he doesn't hunt.
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




  • I was at my buddy's cottage over the weekend. I noticed the shotgun that used to sit above the fireplace was gone. He said that when his dad died, his dad being the only registered firearms user, the cops came and took it and gave my buddy a tax receipt for a charitible donation. this would have made national headlines in the states. my buddy was like "yeah, makes sense".

    This is why the second amendment needs updated. If you want to own a gun, then register. I love that idea. If you're not registered, you don't own a gun.

    And for you "my right to bear arms shall not be infringed" crowd, it would be like getting your driver's license. When you turn 18, you take a 24 hour class and you're registered. See, it's that easy. Oh, so if your illiterate you can't own a gun you ask? Yes, you can, when you learn to read. Get over it.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    This is why the second amendment needs updated. If you want to own a gun, then register. I love that idea. If you're not registered, you don't own a gun.

    And for you "my right to bear arms shall not be infringed" crowd, it would be like getting your driver's license. When you turn 18, you take a 24 hour class and you're registered. See, it's that easy. Oh, so if your illiterate you can't own a gun you ask? Yes, you can, when you learn to read. Get over it.
    soooooo one must learn to read before owning or registering a firearm......well then it would make perfect sense to apply the same law or reasoning when registering to be come a citizen of the united states or when registering to vote or drive a car, welfare or any government assistance......but most of all becoming a citizen of the United States......isn't that the law now ? at least being able to speak English ?.......sure could of fooled me.

    Godfather.

  • soooooo one must learn to read before owning or registering a firearm......well then it would make perfect sense to apply the same law or reasoning when registering to be come a citizen of the united states or when registering to vote or drive a car, welfare or any government assistance......but most of all becoming a citizen of the United States......isn't that the law now ? at least being able to speak English ?.......sure could of fooled me.

    Godfather.

    Yes, you should know how to read to legally own a gun.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,224

    soooooo one must learn to read before owning or registering a firearm......well then it would make perfect sense to apply the same law or reasoning when registering to be come a citizen of the united states or when registering to vote or drive a car, welfare or any government assistance......but most of all becoming a citizen of the United States......isn't that the law now ? at least being able to speak English ?.......sure could of fooled me.

    Godfather.

    where is it law that you need to speak english to become a US citizen?
    "every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"




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