Something about teacher's pay...

1…1415171920…38

Comments

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,668
    lukin2006 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    Is that the measuring stick now? Not starving?

    (Nurses get paid OT, teachers don't, duh)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    PJ_Soul said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    pjhawks said:

    good to see so many here clearly didn't understand the thread topic or how it started. not one person said teachers were overpaid. i hope you guys teach reading comprehension better than you do it here.

    I've done a horrible job trying to teach you.

    Are you still struggling with the nurse/teacher comparison?

    The one where nurses work fewer days and get paid nearly $20,000 more at every point of the pay grid in Canada...

    ... and the discrepancy is even greater in the US?

    I have tried, but I simply cannot present it any other way to try and explain to you that your 'teachers work 50 fewer days at a minimum compared to other professionals' claim is... simply put... not true.
    Nurses in Ontario do not work less than school teachers.
    3-4 days per week. Then OT.
    No public servant in CANADA is starving unless you work for the federal government and are caught in that nightmare of a payroll system. Nurses do not get 9 weeks off, are also paid hourly ...
    Is that the measuring stick now? Not starving?

    (Nurses get paid OT, teachers don't, duh)
    If you want that to be a measuring stick, then so be it. Bye...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    pjhawks said:

    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.

    So you couldn't do it or didn't want to do it, eh?

    It is ironic you speak to facts because that's what this thread came down to in the end. Teacher's days of work were never in dispute. Their hours of work were to some degree, but in fairness (at least until this somewhat dismissive post), you weren't really challenging those.

    You spent the majority of your time insisting 'days worked' were not on par with other professions. Days worked. And thus, teacher's wages were fair.

    When you were pressed to present a comparison to substantiate your claim, you balked. When presented with a comparison to another profession (public service one at that)... you refuted it insisting it didn't count because that information was from another country. And then... when asked again to draw a comparison... you unfurl teacher's days worked again- something everybody already knows and something not disputed- claiming... 'case closed'.

    I don't think it was a matter of 'case closed' as much as it was a matter of 'mind closed'. You had your opinion and you were sticking to it. You're normally better around here and I sincerely mean that: you don't automatically side with the majority and you typically present yourself fairly well. Our differences aside on this issue, I want you to know I harbour no ill will towards you. I do wish you'd respect the teaching profession, but even though you don't... I respect you and the place you've come to navigating life. Petty arguments aside... it's not easy for anyone.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    edited August 2016
    "This fact remains: teachers are underappreciated, under-respected and underpaid. "
    pjhawks said:

    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.

    Not only that, but blanket statements such as "teachers are underpaid, underappreciated, don't get enough credit," etc.even after multiple posts in this thread stating "in my state", since every state is different, every teacher is different, unions and tenure allow for bed teachers to continue to work in the field... Continue on. And enjoy the rest of your summer vacation.
    Post edited by Free on
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,304
    edited August 2016
    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.
    Post edited by Jason P on
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Jason P said:

    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.

    There's definitely truth to this, but there's also something to be said for trying to improve conditions too.

    I don't think it should be a case of simply accepting the profession as one with- as you framed it- too many downsides that might discourage someone from entering it.

    We're all stakeholders in public education: if we don't have kids taking advantage of it... we all indirectly need it to be strong (we need good people looking after us when we are old).

    I'm on my way out. I can accept what is on the table for me right now to the end and still be very happy doing my job. I'm honest when I say I'm concerned for the future: your advice is being followed by many. Good people are passing on pursuing the job- men in particular (over 80% of today's teacher are women in my province and that number is rising).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Free said:

    "This fact remains: teachers are underappreciated, under-respected and underpaid. "

    pjhawks said:

    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.

    Not only that, but blanket statements such as "teachers are underpaid, underappreciated, don't get enough credit," etc.even after multiple posts in this thread stating "in my state", since every state is different, every teacher is different, unions and tenure allow for bed teachers to continue to work in the field... Continue on. And enjoy the rest of your summer vacation.

    Hey, careful there Free, if you don't agree with everything I say, people will no longer be able to claim you and I are always in cahoots! :wink:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,304
    edited August 2016
    ^ (edit: in regards to 30's ... why u mess'n with me B?)

    It may be that the less passionate people are being weeded out. I wanted to be a national park ranger, but with a 4 year degree I would be making less then $25K if (and it was a big if) I could land a full time position. The competition for those positions was intense. I chose to move to another career path as I did not have the passion to commit to that path based on pay.
    Post edited by Jason P on
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    pjhawks said:

    if there was one profession that i would think facts couldn't be disputed i would think it would have been teachers. alas though when people get defensive facts start to have shades of gray. shades of gray where working an extra hour or two or three during a workday somehow constitutes working a full extra day. like somehow those extra 2-4 hours is the same as an 8 hour day for other professionals. so be it. this thread has run it's course. hope you all have a nice school year.

    So you couldn't do it or didn't want to do it, eh?

    It is ironic you speak to facts because that's what this thread came down to in the end. Teacher's days of work were never in dispute. Their hours of work were to some degree, but in fairness (at least until this somewhat dismissive post), you weren't really challenging those.

    You spent the majority of your time insisting 'days worked' were not on par with other professions. Days worked. And thus, teacher's wages were fair.

    When you were pressed to present a comparison to substantiate your claim, you balked. When presented with a comparison to another profession (public service one at that)... you refuted it insisting it didn't count because that information was from another country. And then... when asked again to draw a comparison... you unfurl teacher's days worked again- something everybody already knows and something not disputed- claiming... 'case closed'.

    I don't think it was a matter of 'case closed' as much as it was a matter of 'mind closed'. You had your opinion and you were sticking to it. You're normally better around here and I sincerely mean that: you don't automatically side with the majority and you typically present yourself fairly well. Our differences aside on this issue, I want you to know I harbour no ill will towards you. I do wish you'd respect the teaching profession, but even though you don't... I respect you and the place you've come to navigating life. Petty arguments aside... it's not easy for anyone.
    except mine is not an opinion. also i know you've presented arguments how it works in Canada. As i stated i have no idea how things work up there. clearly there are difference as most nurses in the usa as far as i know are hourly employees not salaried. since i have no idea i don't feel like i can comment on those comparisons you made.

    i have a ton of respect for teachers and what they do. i have a few in my family and friends/acquantantces. if you go through my posts the only things i have started are in reference to days worked. never once said anything negative about teachers and the work they do. i think teachers work very hard and obviously are vitally important.

    i rarely take ill will from what people right on this message board (ok maybe one guy in the philly sports threads in the AET but that is different) so no harm done here.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    Jason P said:

    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.

    I would disagree. My pay is less than when I started because the cost of benefits have increased by a factor of nearly 10, and pay freezes prevent us from making what we were told going into this. Pension and retirements have been slashed too, which was a factor in determining a career for me. Myself and many teachers are not making nearly what I thought I would be at this point 10 years ago, not getting the retirement we thought, and are paying a lot more towards benefits than we used to. So I don't think it's fair or accurate to justify salaries by saying "you new it going in." I know a lot of public jobs were in similar boats too, but it seems to me teachers get hit the hardest when it comes to budget cuts.
    Starting over is very unappealing with 10+ years in a career too.
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Jason P said:

    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.

    There's definitely truth to this, but there's also something to be said for trying to improve conditions too.

    I don't think it should be a case of simply accepting the profession as one with- as you framed it- too many downsides that might discourage someone from entering it.

    We're all stakeholders in public education: if we don't have kids taking advantage of it... we all indirectly need it to be strong (we need good people looking after us when we are old).

    I'm on my way out. I can accept what is on the table for me right now to the end and still be very happy doing my job. I'm honest when I say I'm concerned for the future: your advice is being followed by many. Good people are passing on pursuing the job- men in particular (over 80% of today's teacher are women in my province and that number is rising).
    2 words. Common Core.

    But no one wants to discuss that.
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 9,829
    edited August 2016
    Free said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    Jason P said:

    People that become teachers know all of the alleged downsides before they actually become teachers. If money is that big of a deal, find a new profession if money is your motivating factor.

    I would be a white water rafting guide, but the low pay and and lack of benefits outweighed my love of the game.

    There's definitely truth to this, but there's also something to be said for trying to improve conditions too.

    I don't think it should be a case of simply accepting the profession as one with- as you framed it- too many downsides that might discourage someone from entering it.

    We're all stakeholders in public education: if we don't have kids taking advantage of it... we all indirectly need it to be strong (we need good people looking after us when we are old).

    I'm on my way out. I can accept what is on the table for me right now to the end and still be very happy doing my job. I'm honest when I say I'm concerned for the future: your advice is being followed by many. Good people are passing on pursuing the job- men in particular (over 80% of today's teacher are women in my province and that number is rising).
    2 words. Common Core.

    But no one wants to discuss that.
    Common core has very little to do with the downsides and nothing at all with teacher salaries. The biggest headache I've seen that Common Core brings is the focus on insignificant details that have popped up along with CC. I have my daily objective on the board, but hey lets have a meeting that wastes an entire afternoon so we can all call them "learning targets" instead of objectives. What? Now you're saying the test scores are low because I didn't word my learning target correctly? SO lets spend another afternoon discussing the importance of phrasing it "we will..." instead of "students will..."
    I have seen terrible things done at schools, such as no longer offering geometry because that was the lowest tested math subject. So how do we raise math scores? Don't offer, and therefore don't test the lowest math class. Boom, math scores raised overnight and now we get a sticker saying we're a good school.
    What about science? well, lets make kids take 2 years of biology so they can have high test scores by the end of the second year, only lets give the second year a slightly different name so colleges think they took 2 different classes-same exact state standardized test though. Again, scores raised overnight. Yay! We get to keep that good-school sticker!
    Education needs improvement, teachers need job security and schools need a way to release bad teachers. Common Core isn't the best, or worst thing going on in schools, but it gets all the attention.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,912
    well today is the last day of school for my local teachers.  2.5 months off although some in here disputed those clear facts.  happy summer to the teachers out there.  
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,553
    unsung said:
    They have become indoctrination artists instead of teachers. They have political agendas.
    Brian, you dug up this old gem from unsung!
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    pjhawks said:
    well today is the last day of school for my local teachers.  2.5 months off although some in here disputed those clear facts.  happy summer to the teachers out there.  
    2.5 months "off", :lol:
    Go Beavers said:
    unsung said:
    They have become indoctrination artists instead of teachers. They have political agendas.
    Brian, you dug up this old gem from unsung!
    Please hold, I am scanning my memory banks.
    ...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    We are sorry, memory banks contain insufficient data. 

    :lol:
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    PJPOWER said:
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    For sure. 

    Or highly talented musicians not lucky enough or lacking the A-type personality to get the right connections. The best paid are often not the most talented.  For most in the music business, it's either feast or famine.  It's just wrong.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,116
    PJPOWER said:
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    100% agree.  Social workers are way underpaid.
    2.5 months off lol.  I'll be starting my summer job next week.
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    edited June 2017
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    If you think teachers are paid shit, look into the realm of social work...
    100% agree.  Social workers are way underpaid.
    2.5 months off lol.  I'll be starting my summer job next week.
    WHAT??  And here a thought teachers just hung out at the beach all summer long in their huarahes sipping on Piña Coladas or toking on a bong.  I'll be dipped!

    Well then, here's one for you, McG, and all you good teacher folk taking that nice long vacation, :lol:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tytTebj8ic





    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

Categories