Something about teacher's pay...

lukin2006 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

pjhawks said:

PJ_Soul said:

It seems to me that pjhawks has a very specific (somewhat mysterious) kind of worker in mind and isn't willing to waver from that type while discussing this.

maybe i just know a lot of people who work really fucking hard. i know no one who works strictly 9-5 in an office setting. most of who i know who work full time in an office are in by 7:00 or 7:30 and don't leave until at least 5:00 on weekdays.

For no extra pay and for teacher salaries??? If so, they are chumps. (it's odd that you don't know anyone who works in a 9 - 5 office too btw. Well, I guess now you do. I work in a 9 - 5 office. If I work overtime I get PAID for it. Double time. As it should be). You're acting like it's a good thing that these people's employers are taking advantage of their employees.

no i don't know any salaried employees who work 9-5. and no they make more than teachers well because they work more days which is what the initial discussion was about. round and round we go

SMH. So wtf is your argument? That teachers should work too many hours and not get paid for working extra time, the way they do now? That's what your point is? And no comment on the employers taking advantage of your friends and family?

ugh for the 20th time. original post had a study that teachers get paid 77% of what other college degree professionals get paid...yet they work only around 77% of the number of days or those professionals. rinse, repeat fuck for the 2nd time i give up

ugh for the hundredth time. they don't work 77% of the number of days of other professionals. unless your entire argument is based on calendar days, and not cumulative hours as days, which would be ludicrous. I know people at my office who work 7 days in a 2 week period. hey, that's not nearly as much as me! oh, wait, they work 10 hours per day. forgot about that. now that makes sense.

pjhawks is right ... what other professions get 2 weeks at Christmas, a week at march and 9 weeks in the summer...any work they do after their contracted time is by choice...but they are expected to contribute beyond their contracted time, thats why their paid like full-time employees (in Canada at least) ... and who knows about the states ...

brianlux said:

I wonder how many non-teacher professionals get paid while they are posting to Facebook or their favorite rock band fan site and how many teachers do the same during school hours. That would be interesting to know.

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

PJ_Soul said:

lukin2006 said:

pjhawks said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Free said:

OffSheGoes35 said:

Free, do you actually want to know why no teachers are discussing common core? It is because they are too busy defending themselves against your assertion that their careers are one big perkfest.

Please explain how a week or more for Christmas break, bank holidays, thanksgiving, spring break, winter break, Snow days, and summer break are not perks. Anyone working in a professional Field don't get half of that off. Hawks and I are simply pointing that fact out with many people excusing it while also pointing out that it is a full-time job. With all that time off, and the full-time pay, pension and tenure the teachers in my state get at least, it deserves speculation. In other states were teachers get low pay, I am not saying they should, but comparing the time and days worked, the pay might be more in line.

Yup. Correct. You... and one other person- pjhawks (who seems more moderate) are continuing with this assertion.

I posted a model of comparison for you. I posted- twice now- the pay structures and typical work schedules- for teachers and nurses in a side by side format.

You both have ignored the comparison which clearly shows nurses work the same amount of days and get paid more (much more in fact).

As expressed, I am not begrudging nurses of anything- they deserve all they get and more. I posted it to squash your biased claim.

you are in Canada. I know nothing about work rules or what goes on in Canada so i can't make any comment on nurses vs. teachers in Canda.

Well let me tell you, neither nurse's nor teachers with full time jobs will struggle financially in Canada ... unless you reside in maybe Toronto or Vancouver and a few of the other large urban areas where housing cost are ridiculous.

Ummm, well the numbers of teachers and nurses in Toronto, Vancouver, and other major urban centres are extremely significant, and yeah, they are pretty much dirt poor in those places. But that isn't even the point of this conversation I thought. Don't teachers deserve more than just "not struggling"??

Thee only reason they would struggle in those areas is because of the ridiculous housing prices ... my sister lives in TO is a teacher and is doing well and owns her own property and is single. We all deserve more than not struggling, every person who gets off their off their ass and goes to work for a living deserve not to struggle ... unfortunately thats not the case...

As I live in Vancouver, I know why people struggle here, and it's not only because of housing prices, but that is a huge part of it. I completely agree that anyone who works full time, be they teachers, lawyers, or ditch diggers, deserve not to struggle. But then I think some professions deserve more. Teachers do not get as much as they deserve IMO, because of the work they do, their importance in our society, and the education levels that the work now demands (which is generally the masters level). As I said earlier in the thread, I think their salaries should START at about $70K and go up from there (btw, not sure when your sister bought her property, but there is no way anyone in Vancouver is buying any property on a teacher's salary. Not unless someone gives them a massive down payment or something).

For 1 she did not buy in downtown ... on the outskirts, its a condo ... other than that I have no details. The only complaints I hear from her in regards to teaching complaints is more or less about the bureaucrats and administration. And she loves TO ... so she makes it work without complaint. Teachers in Ontario do very well, once you've completed all your required courses and are at the top of the grid you are looking at pay just south of 100 k and some teachers are creeping over a 100 k and appearing on the sunshine list, as are nurse's in Ontario ... lets not even talk about police and fire, all very well taken care of...all of these professions come with pensions and very generous benefit packages. So I'll save the pity party for people who for one reason or another are struggling with low paying jobs..and deserve to be treated better.

brianlux said:

hedonist said:

brianlux said:

I wonder how many non-teacher professionals get paid while they are posting to Facebook or their favorite rock band fan site and how many teachers do the same during school hours. That would be interesting to know.

Interesting for what purpose though?

You're working, you're working. Got some down time? Go for it! Whether cruising the internet or chatting up a coworker for 20 minutes or texting or even that fucking Pokemon Go shit. It happens, and if that causes a cog in the process, it's dealt with. Usually.

I get my shit done - and done well. This is the only social media site I post on. I'm fine with it and apparently work is too, as I'd never blow off a commitment to output and quality just to post...oh, I don't know...in this thread


mace, the OT thing is how it's always been for me. In my experience, salaried folks tend to be paid a bit higher to compensate for the extra work/no overtime pay.

I questioned "how many" not "which one". I did not direct this question at any individual. You are one person.

But thanks for responding anyway. You're the only one besides Hugh and he basically asked the same question.

brianlux said:

Hedo, PJ_Soul, I'm not trying to pin anyone down here or butt into anyone's work business. I'm only responsible for myself that way. What I am suggesting is that there is a lot on unproductive time in most work places. We've all seen it and most likely we've all done it. I've had over thirty different jobs in a wide variety of work settings (including an animal hospital, factory work, retail, construction, professional offices, landscaping, farming, self employment, restaurants, job training centers, counseling centers and schools) and seen a lot of unproductive time in those work places. I myself have spent unproductive time in some of those settings.

No so in teaching. I'm sure it happens, but my experience with teaching is that if you are not on task as a teacher, chaos will ensue. In fact, I think this is (thus far) an unwritten law of physics: "Unproductive time in a classroom setting creates a void that leads to Chaos." I'm sure there must be some spoiled, over-paid laissez–faire teachers out there. I'd be willing to bet that Free, for example, would not tell us about such examples if they were not true or at least Free's honest perception of such. But, truly, I've never seen it!

mcgruff10 said:

pjhawks said:

what dreams said:

Degeneratefk said:

Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.

And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.

When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.

You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.

thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.

I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

mcgruff10 said:

pjhawks said:

what dreams said:

Degeneratefk said:

Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.

And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.

When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.

You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.

thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.

I'm guessing you aren't a teacher. It would be great to work 250 days a year as a teacher but do you think a child can sustain that level of academic rigor 12 months out of a year? Kids need a break. It sounds like you are a little jealous of the time off, benefits and salary. My advice to you is to go back to school, get a degree in whatever you want to teach and try it out for 3 or 4 years.

Geezuz, Scruffy.

Where the hell ya been? These guys are busting our chops. We've needed you. It's hostile in here.