Something about teacher's pay...

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

    77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.
    well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.
    You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.
    the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

    Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.
    i would imagine in CA or WA there are very few 5 or even a 4 day work weeks for teachers from mid-june to mid-august (normnal schedule here in PA.). sure they might work some but no teacher i have ever met has worked a 5 or 4 day work schedule each week in during that time frame. and that doesn't even include vacation days they also get during their regular 10 month stint.

    i'm not trying to put down teachers and i hope i'm not coming across that way. what they do is great and no way would i ever do it for any age group but you have to factor in schedule, pensions, and health care when comparing compensation for teachers vs. others.
    See Jeffs posts above.

    I guess some places have it cushy. Certainly not all over. Certainly not out west.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    jeffbr said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

    77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.
    well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.
    You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.
    the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

    Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.
    My daughter is a special education teacher in WA, and she definitely doesn't have 2.5 months of Summer vacation. She is responsible for writing IEPs for each of the students who will be in her classroom, goes to workshops and conferences, etc... She might get a few weeks of needed downtime, but certainly not months. During the school year she is in by 6am and after getting home and having dinner she's back to work on lesson plans and grading until bedtime. She is absolutely overworked and underpaid, but loves the kids she works with.
    Special Ed. teachers are the best and the hardest working by far. AND they go into the field for the right reasons. However, since working in a district, I have met 2 special Ed teachers who are in it for the wrong reasons and one is my daughter's teacher. Not happy! The other one has said he went into special Ed "for marketability". You can imagine the lack of respect I have for this douchebag.
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,908
    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

    77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.
    well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.
    You must have not read my post, pjhawks. Sorry but in most school districts, teachers absolutely do not get 2 1/2 months off. That's a total fallacy.
    the teachers i know sure do. i have multiple ones in my family and know a few others as well.. and of those days you say they work in the summer how many are ever in the 8-12 hour range? ill trade my work schedule/hours (even as i type this from work lol) for a teachers any day.

    Maybe so in some places, pjh. I've not seen in CA or WA.
    i would imagine in CA or WA there are very few 5 or even a 4 day work weeks for teachers from mid-june to mid-august (normnal schedule here in PA.). sure they might work some but no teacher i have ever met has worked a 5 or 4 day work schedule each week in during that time frame. and that doesn't even include vacation days they also get during their regular 10 month stint.

    i'm not trying to put down teachers and i hope i'm not coming across that way. what they do is great and no way would i ever do it for any age group but you have to factor in schedule, pensions, and health care when comparing compensation for teachers vs. others.
    See Jeffs posts above.

    I guess some places have it cushy. Certainly not all over. Certainly not out west.
    also of the 52 weeks per year how many weeks does a teacher actually work 5 days a week? factor in spring break, Christmas break and sometimes fall breaks (for some districts) you are talking at least another 3 weeks that most professionals work that teachers are not scheduled to work. When you add it all up it's a lot of extra days off that most professionals would have to take vacation days to get.
    not saying teachers don't work their asses off, many and most do but their time off is just way more than most other professions. not sure how this is debatable.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Most deserve less.
  • Cliffy6745
    Cliffy6745 Posts: 34,025
    Teacher's pay sucks. Increase salary, get rid of tenure, and compensate based on performance. Just like any other successful industry.
  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    edited August 2016
    brianlux said:

    Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?

    Common core and politicizing education fails our kids. There is an over abundance of teachers looking for jobs in NY w/ several hundred applications for one position @ my district alone. Not kidding. They know the frills, tenure and good pay and don't want to go to another state because they're not in it for the right reasons, they're in it for good pay here.
    Post edited by Free on
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,908
    edited August 2016
    brianlux said:

    Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?

    how can you deny the time off teachers get is not greater? my local school district teachers get 3 weeks off DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR that other professions don't get (and that doesn't include 'in-service days' and their own vacation days) . that doesn't even include whatever they get off in the summer. at the bare minimum teachers get a full month off and closer to two months scheduled days off that regular professionals don't get. again it's not debatable. those are facts.

    no one has said it's easy to do. i don't think people are going into the field because who wants to deal with other people kids and parents.

    there are a myriad of reasons why our education is lagging at this time and teachers salaries are far down the list of why.
    Post edited by pjhawks on
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    They have become indoctrination artists instead of teachers. They have political agendas.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?

    how can you deny the time off teachers get is not greater? my local school district teachers get 3 weeks off DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR that other professions don't get (and that doesn't include 'in-service days' and their own vacation days) . that doesn't even include whatever they get off in the summer. at the bare minimum teachers get a full month off and closer to two months scheduled days off that regular professionals don't get. again it's not debatable. those are facts.

    no one has said it's easy to do. i don't think people are going into the field because who wants to deal with other people kids and parents.

    there are a myriad of reasons why our education is lagging at this time and teachers salaries are far down the list of why.

    Shit man, I dunno know. I must be living on another planet? :lol:

    ummmm, 'cause I've done it?

    I'm so happy for the teachers you know who get all this time off. It must be nice!

    Moving on...

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Free
    Free Posts: 3,562
    You didn't get school breaks Brian? T-giving, Christmas, winter and Easter breaks. That teachers get.
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    edited August 2016
    Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    https://youtu.be/6M4_Ommfvv0

    I'd give all of these teachers a raise.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,908
    Degeneratefk said:

    Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.

    i didn't count those. my school district gets a Jewish holiday off in September, Friday after thanksgiving, Christmas break, MLK Day, Presidents day and a Spring break that most companies don't give their employees off for. Obviously some offices are closed on MLK and maybe even Presidents day but for the most part that is up to about 15 days off that regular professionals don't get excluding summer.

    Summer school and coaching are (usually) paid gigs outside of their teacher salaries.
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    edited August 2016
    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

    77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.
    well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

    how do you factor in school districts and communities paying into pensions and health care costs for teachers as well? i know many districts are trying to get out of the pension and lower health care costs but seems like teachers still get more than the average worker these days.
    Yes, we're all getting fat rich on our teaching salaries plus benefits doing next to nothing.

    Oh my God, I'm only about 10 posts into this thread, and this 23 year veteran already feels the explosion coming on. I have a feeling I should stop reading now.
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    brianlux said:

    Let me ask this: If teachers are well paid and have it so easy with so much free time, why is there a teacher shortage in many parts of the U.S.? Why aren't people clamoring to compete for these jobs? Why are we well known for lagging behind in education? Why does America consistently rank low in education world-wide?

    Why do we have a teacher shortage? Because who would go into a profession where all the public does is bitch about what teachers do, while making VAST generalizations about our lack of professionalism and talents? The absolute lack of respect and misunderstanding of what we really do astounds me. People think that just because they themselves were once students, and now their children are students, they are experts on teaching. I would never claim to understand anybody else's profession the way people think they know teaching. It's this bullshit that makes me want to quit. Nothing about the pay, or the hours, or don't get me started on the whack job Generation X parents I deal with. I've seen a lot of changes in 23 years, and it's the change in parenting that is the absolute worst.
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Teachers in Ontario are doing very well. And for those unhappy you can get a summer job to supplement your income
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,908
    what dreams said:

    pjhawks said:

    brianlux said:

    pjhawks said:

    the average teacher makes 77% of what others with college degrees earn according to the posted article yet it fails to mention they only work around 77% of the amount of time that regular 12 month workers work. you have to factor in the 2 1/2 summer months they get off. also i've never agreed with the philosophy that higher pay will equal better teachers/teaching. higher pay will and 2 1/2 months off will push people into the field who don't truly love it. one thing about most teachers today (that i know of at least) is that they do truly love what they are doing.

    77% of the time? This is not true. Sorry man but obviously you've not been a teacher.
    well 9.5 months divided by 12 months is 79%. i know many teachers and God bless them but even higher pay i wouldn't do their job.

    how do you factor in school districts and communities paying into pensions and health care costs for teachers as well? i know many districts are trying to get out of the pension and lower health care costs but seems like teachers still get more than the average worker these days.
    Yes, we're all getting fat rich on our teaching salaries plus benefits doing next to nothing.

    Oh my God, I'm only about 10 posts into this thread, and this 23 year veteran already feels the explosion coming on. I have a feeling I should stop reading now.
    no one has said teachers are getting rich and doing nothing. the OP was about teacher salaries vs. other professionals. all posts since then have been in reference to that.
  • what dreams
    what dreams Posts: 1,761
    edited August 2016
    Degeneratefk said:

    Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.

    And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for actual school days worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194 (and yes, we work many, many more than that). Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.

    When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.

    You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.

    Post edited by what dreams on
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,908
    what dreams said:

    Degeneratefk said:

    Many "days off" during the school year that aren't holidays are administration days in which the teachers still have to show up. Many teachers don't have the entire summer off if they teach summer school, drivers ed, or coach.

    And NONE of our holidays are paid vacation days. The standard teaching contract is based on a per diem rate only for days actually worked, which is usually anywhere from 180-194. Most states are right to work states and there are no union contracts. Those states offer the worst salaries. I started my career in Charleston, SC, and my starting salary was $1800 more than the federal poverty line. After five years, I moved back home to the DC area nearly bankrupt with a pile of credit card debt because I had to charge groceries to even eat, among other things. By moving, I almost doubled my salary, but I also doubled my living expenses. These past eight years, since the 2008 crash, our salaries have been frozen, until finally this past year, a courageous new superintendent took on our Board of Supervisors and fought hard to bring us back in line with the market.

    When looking at average salary statistics, it's important to realize one thing. Fifty percent of teachers leave the profession by year five (see my post about respect and you will see why) to be replaced by other young teachers. While there may be people on the high end bringing up that average salary, the vast majority of our young teachers are at the very low end of the scale, and in most states/localities, they are making a near poverty wage.

    You also need to realize that if you know a teacher who seems to be living just fine because she gets to take a trip to a fancy place, she's probably married in a two income household. Those of us who are single, even on the higher end of the scale, struggle. My one trip a year is to one Pearl Jam show, and I save money in a jar to pay for it.

    thanks for proving my point. so you work 180-194 days per year. most office professionals are closer to 250 days per year (5 days per week for 52 weeks minus holidays). so while salaries for teachers are only 77% of other professionals the other professionals work roughly 16%-20% more days per year...as i have been saying since the 1st post.

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