MLB 2025 Season

Degeneratefk said:

igotid88 said:

Degeneratefk said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I am not sold on Ozzie being be defensive SS ever, nor defender ever. HOF sure, but I thought he was overrated on D.

Agree that the 2 assholes who didn't vote Griffey should be slapped.

Empty seats? They said it was the 2nd largest crowd they ever had for one of these things. Looked packed -- I think people had to go hydrate or get shade at points. The weather has been brutally hot/humid last few weeks in NE.

At first I thought Sale cut up his jersey because he was a sally...now it turns out he cut up a shitload of them "with a knife?"
What a jerk. Trade him.

They will trade him. That's not up for debate. It's just a matter of when.

I'm not sure how you can say ozzie isn't one of the best defensive SS ever. Who is better? He's in the hall for 1 reason, defense. He was around a career .300 hitter with zero power.

As the ceremony began, there was a camera shot from where the MLB channel broadcasters were towards the stage. There appeared to be a block of seats, maybe 30-50 that were empty.

Ozzie wasn't anywhere near a .300 hitter. Great defense. An okay hitter. If you didn't know who he was and saw his numbers. You probably wouldn't think HOF.

Yea, he only hit .300 once. Career .263. Which proves my point even more that he is one of the greatest defensive SS of all time. Because you really can't get into the hall with his offensive numbers.

Think it proves my point that he is Overrated. (Think of him as the Jim Edmonds (fielding wise) of the infield.) Full disclosure that I am a Reds fan and was pissed for many years when he started in the ASG over Larkin, even though he couldnt carry Larkin's jock as an all around player. (And he was gifted a few of those golden gloves in his 13 yr streak I think)
Who is better?
Omar Vizquel, imo, is the best I ever saw. He did it all with the glove -- and none with his light pants backflips across the field.
Tony Fernandez is in the same category as Ozzie.
Davey C?

Cliffy6745 said:

Sale seems like a turd

Yeah, just a bit. The white sox are a fucking disaster.

Vizquel is the best SS I've ever seen defensively. Ozzie was dazzling, but I wouldn't call him the greatest. Former Cub Rey Sanchez was better, statistically, at short than Ozzie. Played 15 seasons only had 10 or more errors 3 times.
While Ozzie wasn't a power hitter (or much of a hitter at all), he did have great base-running instincts (nearly 600 career steals) and excellent plate discipline (drew 500 more walks than struck out in his career).

F Me In The Brain said:

Degeneratefk said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Degeneratefk said:

igotid88 said:

Degeneratefk said:

F Me In The Brain said:

I am not sold on Ozzie being be defensive SS ever, nor defender ever. HOF sure, but I thought he was overrated on D.

Agree that the 2 assholes who didn't vote Griffey should be slapped.

Empty seats? They said it was the 2nd largest crowd they ever had for one of these things. Looked packed -- I think people had to go hydrate or get shade at points. The weather has been brutally hot/humid last few weeks in NE.

At first I thought Sale cut up his jersey because he was a sally...now it turns out he cut up a shitload of them "with a knife?"
What a jerk. Trade him.

They will trade him. That's not up for debate. It's just a matter of when.

I'm not sure how you can say ozzie isn't one of the best defensive SS ever. Who is better? He's in the hall for 1 reason, defense. He was around a career .300 hitter with zero power.

As the ceremony began, there was a camera shot from where the MLB channel broadcasters were towards the stage. There appeared to be a block of seats, maybe 30-50 that were empty.

Ozzie wasn't anywhere near a .300 hitter. Great defense. An okay hitter. If you didn't know who he was and saw his numbers. You probably wouldn't think HOF.

Yea, he only hit .300 once. Career .263. Which proves my point even more that he is one of the greatest defensive SS of all time. Because you really can't get into the hall with his offensive numbers.

Think it proves my point that he is Overrated. (Think of him as the Jim Edmonds (fielding wise) of the infield.) Full disclosure that I am a Reds fan and was pissed for many years when he started in the ASG over Larkin, even though he couldnt carry Larkin's jock as an all around player. (And he was gifted a few of those golden gloves in his 13 yr streak I think)
Who is better?
Omar Vizquel, imo, is the best I ever saw. He did it all with the glove -- and none with his light pants backflips across the field.
Tony Fernandez is in the same category as Ozzie.
Davey C?

Wow. Larkin is definitely a better hitter than Smith was. But I think you guys are forgetting how good ozzie was in the field. I was able to watch alot of both of them play as they played in the cubs division.

Vizquel was a defensive God as well. He played 24 big league seasons and had 10 or less errors in 14 of those 24 years. In 24 seasons, he has only 183 career errors. He averaged 112 games per year. So he stayed on the field. Hard to top omar.

Larkin was far superior defensively the last handful of years Ozzie was living on backflips and bjs. Ozzie was clearly better defensively before that. Offensively they were not in the same stratosphere. Larkin 2x the player with the bat.

I remember Omar being a better hitter than Ozzie too, although I didnt look it up to check it. Ozzie was a big smile and fun for the fans. This bolstered his image while playing and makes people think he was the best defensive guy ever, imo.

More proof? You admit Ozzie was weak with the bat. How many all star games did he make?

Omar made 3.

You're asking me how many all star games did ozzie Smith play in? My guess would be 8. I don't know. All star selections never meant that much to me. Vizquel was fucked from a popularity contest point of view. Which is how you get voted in. He had to deal with Cal RipKen late in his career. Then Derek Jeter and Nomar Garciaparra. Then A-rod. It was tough to get I to the all star game on defense alone.

here's how I could justify not 100% for some of your guys:

nolan - 324 wins in 27 years, plus .526 winning percentage

cal - phony ass, self promoting "iron man" streak....even when his playing may have hurt the team.

rickey - steroids?

ozzie - what F'me said

i don't mind a player not getting a 100% of the vote. Only if that vote goes to another worthy player. Maybe someone who's on the line like a Jack Morris or Don Mattingly for example. Both are not eligible anymore though. I think they can only get in through the veterans commitee. (I think they changed the name)

igotid88 said:

If David Ortiz gets in after failing a test. And everyone thinks he will. Then all the steroid guys should get in. Because there's no excuse.

There are already several steroid guys in. But they played jn,a time when,steroids were "legal."

Here are a few that I believe have done steroids. Many of these guys are players that I idolized as a kid:

Rickey Henderson
Cal RipKen Jr
Dave Winfield
Dennis Eckersly
Craig Biggie
Mike Piazza

Degeneratefk said:

igotid88 said:

If David Ortiz gets in after failing a test. And everyone thinks he will. Then all the steroid guys should get in. Because there's no excuse.

There are already several steroid guys in. But they played jn,a time when,steroids were "legal."

Here are a few that I believe have done steroids. Many of these guys are players that I idolized as a kid:

Rickey Henderson
Cal RipKen Jr
Dave Winfield
Dennis Eckersly
Craig Biggie
Mike Piazza

Yea but they didn't fail a test. Although Bonds and Clemens never did either.

igotid88 said:

Degeneratefk said:

igotid88 said:

If David Ortiz gets in after failing a test. And everyone thinks he will. Then all the steroid guys should get in. Because there's no excuse.

There are already several steroid guys in. But they played jn,a time when,steroids were "legal."

Here are a few that I believe have done steroids. Many of these guys are players that I idolized as a kid:

Rickey Henderson
Cal RipKen Jr
Dave Winfield
Dennis Eckersly
Craig Biggie
Mike Piazza

Yea but they didn't fail a test. Although Bonds and Clemens never did either.

Ok. That's my point. The steroid era in baseball is no different the different era that led to rule changes. Like the mound being lowered in the 60same because pitching flat out dominated. Or making the spit ball illegal. Of mandating where pine tar can and can't be on a bat. It's just part of the game.

Mark McGuire never tested positive either. A ROD didn't. I know they admitted their use, but their numbers make them hall of famers. I'm even ok with the museum having a steroid era section. The guys that tested positive or admitted to use can be put in that section.

Did sosa test positive?

and besides the steroid wing, we can have the:

never played against black players wing.
pitched off a high mound wing.
never traveled further west than st. louis wing.
got to see the same pitcher all game wing.
greenies wing.

etc.