America's Gun Violence

oftenreading said:

show previous quotes

dudeman said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

What are the letters I'm talking about its easy let me help you , NRA they are more powerful than the POTUS , congress, senate ...nothing will ever get done with them in charge !

Not to mention a little notion of being innocent until proven guilty. If rights start being taken away because someone is "presumed" or "assumed", then I'm thinking there is a 99% chance "suspected" terrorists will gain back their ability to purchase firearms after one or two lawsuits make those weak laws disappear for good. My question is "What are you doing to help". Posting on a Pearl Jam forum isn't exactly helping. It has been broadcast several times how a trained individual saved lives in Orlando because he had knowledge of situational awareness. There are free workshops all the time related to workplace safety, survival skills, etc. I have attended and participated in countless. That does not give me a 100% chance of surviving something like happened in Orlando, but it sure as hell raises those odds. It starts on a personal level. Maybe some sort of situational awareness class should be a mandatory part of high school curriculum...that stands the potential of decreasing rapes, human trafficking, workplace violence, terrorist attacks. Most people don't even know how to properly apply a tourniquet...that's pathetic. Personal responsibility or lack there of has most definitely, undeniably been a factor in almost all of these situations. In Orlando, it took 3 hours for SWAT to enter the building. What would you have done during those three hours? Sheep or sheepdog?

Personal accountability of who? The victims? The cops? How much killing was actually done after the initial 15 minutes? Hostage situations typically last much longer than 3 hours. What were they doing? Figuring out a plan that would kill the least amount of people. You can't just come up with that in 20 minutes.

You misunderstood my question. If you were inside with the asshole, what would you do in those 3 hours? Do you know some of the breathing techniques to calm your heart rate so that you can think clearly under pressure or how to apply a simply tourniquet if needed? There are free classes out there that teach these things, just like there are CPR classes... Knowledge of these things would be helpful in so many situations outside of just an event like this.

While you make it sound plausible , it's absurd that I'd have to be trained in survival skills to go out dancing with my wife ! Doesn't it make more sense to make it harder for people to get the weapons ? Maybe just maybe pass some laws to get this done ...

I don't think that it's absurd to take responsibility for your own personal safety. In fact, I find it alarming that so many people in this nation full of people who want to be recognized as individuals would rather rely on the government to protect their lives.

I agree that one function of our government is to keep the citizens safe but at the end of the day, all they are required to do is arrest the criminals.

No. What the government should be doing is facilitating an entire framework of a healthy society that promotes safety for its citizens. If all they are doing is arresting criminals after they have committed a crime, the government has failed in its duty.

Many, many countries understand this.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

show previous quotes

oftenreading said:

dudeman said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

What are the letters I'm talking about its easy let me help you , NRA they are more powerful than the POTUS , congress, senate ...nothing will ever get done with them in charge !

Not to mention a little notion of being innocent until proven guilty. If rights start being taken away because someone is "presumed" or "assumed", then I'm thinking there is a 99% chance "suspected" terrorists will gain back their ability to purchase firearms after one or two lawsuits make those weak laws disappear for good. My question is "What are you doing to help". Posting on a Pearl Jam forum isn't exactly helping. It has been broadcast several times how a trained individual saved lives in Orlando because he had knowledge of situational awareness. There are free workshops all the time related to workplace safety, survival skills, etc. I have attended and participated in countless. That does not give me a 100% chance of surviving something like happened in Orlando, but it sure as hell raises those odds. It starts on a personal level. Maybe some sort of situational awareness class should be a mandatory part of high school curriculum...that stands the potential of decreasing rapes, human trafficking, workplace violence, terrorist attacks. Most people don't even know how to properly apply a tourniquet...that's pathetic. Personal responsibility or lack there of has most definitely, undeniably been a factor in almost all of these situations. In Orlando, it took 3 hours for SWAT to enter the building. What would you have done during those three hours? Sheep or sheepdog?

Personal accountability of who? The victims? The cops? How much killing was actually done after the initial 15 minutes? Hostage situations typically last much longer than 3 hours. What were they doing? Figuring out a plan that would kill the least amount of people. You can't just come up with that in 20 minutes.

You misunderstood my question. If you were inside with the asshole, what would you do in those 3 hours? Do you know some of the breathing techniques to calm your heart rate so that you can think clearly under pressure or how to apply a simply tourniquet if needed? There are free classes out there that teach these things, just like there are CPR classes... Knowledge of these things would be helpful in so many situations outside of just an event like this.

While you make it sound plausible , it's absurd that I'd have to be trained in survival skills to go out dancing with my wife ! Doesn't it make more sense to make it harder for people to get the weapons ? Maybe just maybe pass some laws to get this done ...

I don't think that it's absurd to take responsibility for your own personal safety. In fact, I find it alarming that so many people in this nation full of people who want to be recognized as individuals would rather rely on the government to protect their lives.

I agree that one function of our government is to keep the citizens safe but at the end of the day, all they are required to do is arrest the criminals.

No. What the government should be doing is facilitating an entire framework of a healthy society that promotes safety for its citizens. If all they are doing is arresting criminals after they have committed a crime, the government has failed in its duty.

Many, many countries understand this.

Well stated, but will not be understood by the Cliven Bundy types.

dudeman said:

show previous quotes

oftenreading said:

dudeman said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

What are the letters I'm talking about its easy let me help you , NRA they are more powerful than the POTUS , congress, senate ...nothing will ever get done with them in charge !

Not to mention a little notion of being innocent until proven guilty. If rights start being taken away because someone is "presumed" or "assumed", then I'm thinking there is a 99% chance "suspected" terrorists will gain back their ability to purchase firearms after one or two lawsuits make those weak laws disappear for good. My question is "What are you doing to help". Posting on a Pearl Jam forum isn't exactly helping. It has been broadcast several times how a trained individual saved lives in Orlando because he had knowledge of situational awareness. There are free workshops all the time related to workplace safety, survival skills, etc. I have attended and participated in countless. That does not give me a 100% chance of surviving something like happened in Orlando, but it sure as hell raises those odds. It starts on a personal level. Maybe some sort of situational awareness class should be a mandatory part of high school curriculum...that stands the potential of decreasing rapes, human trafficking, workplace violence, terrorist attacks. Most people don't even know how to properly apply a tourniquet...that's pathetic. Personal responsibility or lack there of has most definitely, undeniably been a factor in almost all of these situations. In Orlando, it took 3 hours for SWAT to enter the building. What would you have done during those three hours? Sheep or sheepdog?

Personal accountability of who? The victims? The cops? How much killing was actually done after the initial 15 minutes? Hostage situations typically last much longer than 3 hours. What were they doing? Figuring out a plan that would kill the least amount of people. You can't just come up with that in 20 minutes.

You misunderstood my question. If you were inside with the asshole, what would you do in those 3 hours? Do you know some of the breathing techniques to calm your heart rate so that you can think clearly under pressure or how to apply a simply tourniquet if needed? There are free classes out there that teach these things, just like there are CPR classes... Knowledge of these things would be helpful in so many situations outside of just an event like this.

While you make it sound plausible , it's absurd that I'd have to be trained in survival skills to go out dancing with my wife ! Doesn't it make more sense to make it harder for people to get the weapons ? Maybe just maybe pass some laws to get this done ...

I don't think that it's absurd to take responsibility for your own personal safety. In fact, I find it alarming that so many people in this nation full of people who want to be recognized as individuals would rather rely on the government to protect their lives.

I agree that one function of our government is to keep the citizens safe but at the end of the day, all they are required to do is arrest the criminals.

No. What the government should be doing is facilitating an entire framework of a healthy society that promotes safety for its citizens. If all they are doing is arresting criminals after they have committed a crime, the government has failed in its duty.

Many, many countries understand this.

What our government should be doing and what they have been doing for the past several decades are vastly different things.

PJPOWER said:

show previous quotes

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

remember when the government made laws to register your car and take a test and then stole your car away from you?

yeah, me neither.

exactly...and what gets me the most is that this would effect very few people. The overwhelming majority of citizens either do not own a weapon or only own handguns or hunting weapons.

Or we could just deport all the muslims...that would solve it

Could do a bacon test, lol. ISIS followers do not eat or have contact with pork, so maybe we should just require everyone purchasing a firearm to eat a slab of bacon, haha. That would effect non-violent Muslims and Jews as well, but would most definitely stop ISIS supporters from purchasing, right? (Sarcasm)
I do not know if I agree with the statement that it would not effect the vast majority either, seeing as how over 30,000 were sold in the past week by one distributer alone, many many people own them. They are the most sold rifle to date. Billions of them out there, BILLIONS!

HughFreakingDillon said:

show previous quotes

PJPOWER said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

remember when the government made laws to register your car and take a test and then stole your car away from you?

yeah, me neither.

exactly...and what gets me the most is that this would effect very few people. The overwhelming majority of citizens either do not own a weapon or only own handguns or hunting weapons.

Or we could just deport all the muslims...that would solve it

Could do a bacon test, lol. ISIS followers do not eat or have contact with pork, so maybe we should just require everyone purchasing a firearm to eat a slab of bacon, haha. That would effect non-violent Muslims and Jews as well, but would most definitely stop ISIS supporters from purchasing, right? (Sarcasm)
I do not know if I agree with the statement that it would not effect the vast majority either, seeing as how over 30,000 were sold in the past week by one distributer alone, many many people own them. They are the most sold rifle to date. Billions of them out there, BILLIONS!

and that's kind of scary.