America's Gun Violence

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

polaris_x said:

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

polaris_x said:

i would side with the people who say a ban or more regulations on guns would not solve the mass shootings that have happened ... it would likely prevent a few accidental deaths but by in large - i'd speculate that the gun violence statistics would stay pretty much the same ...

america has a violence problem which is amplified with it's love affair with guns and all things destructive ... how many of y'all who support stricter gun laws are also the same people who say that if anyone tried to hurt your family - you'd go after those people!? ...

the country was born from violence and has a legacy of violence ... one of the biggest lobbies in the country is the NRA and the military industrial complex is a driver of US foreign policy ...

aren't all countries born, or at least bred at some point in their history, on violence?

Yes, but not all countries encourage violence through various forms of media. Is Hollywood somewhat to blame? Anything that perpetuates the devaluation of human life has a hand in this violent culture. Maybe if our children spent more time volunteering instead of playing violent video games and watching Saw. I have seen first hand how media can influence children's behavior. When I was a counselor I saw children trying to stab people at school because they "saw it on Grand Theft Auto". Anyone that says there is not a correlation between violent media and violent behavior is delusional or misinformed. Not too many Boy Scouts shooting up theaters...just sayin.
Again, personal responsibility, stop feeding children this shit and I promise in a generation or two you will see a change in culture.

You think Canadians don't play Grand Theft Auto and watch violent movies?

Try again.

this is a point I was about to make, too, Thirty. how can we explain the differences in violent culture between Canada and the US, or even Europe and the US, when our influences are the same? same video games, same movies, etc. I think this is part of the issue; it is largely unexplainable why one nation of people have turned into one of, if not THE, most violent first world nations on earth.

I don't know, has that comprehensive study been done? Are the education systems similar? How similar are our cultures really?

well I'd say our cultures are very similar. politically, no. canadians aren't nearly as patriotic, to say the least, as americans. it's rare to see a canadian flag on a house. the only time you see one is at a government building or during the world junior hockey championships, LOL.

not sure about the education systems, so can't comment.

but what I was commenting on was your point that you believe hollywood and video games are very much to blame, but how can that be, when our children watch the same movies and play the same games?

They are not only to blame, but exposing a child that does not have the brain connectivity to differentiate reality vs fiction to graphic violence is not a great start...aka 7 year olds playing GTA and watching Saw.

Don't leave out all the indoctrination toward war, we are inundated with glorification of WW2 in this country.

it's also about a society that believes violence is an answer to conflict ...

Yep. Wars. Death penalty. Violent tv and games.

We're freakin neandrathals .

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

What are the letters I'm talking about its easy let me help you , NRA they are more powerful than the POTUS , congress, senate ...nothing will ever get done with them in charge !

Not to mention a little notion of being innocent until proven guilty. If rights start being taken away because someone is "presumed" or "assumed", then I'm thinking there is a 99% chance "suspected" terrorists will gain back their ability to purchase firearms after one or two lawsuits make those weak laws disappear for good. My question is "What are you doing to help". Posting on a Pearl Jam forum isn't exactly helping. It has been broadcast several times how a trained individual saved lives in Orlando because he had knowledge of situational awareness. There are free workshops all the time related to workplace safety, survival skills, etc. I have attended and participated in countless. That does not give me a 100% chance of surviving something like happened in Orlando, but it sure as hell raises those odds. It starts on a personal level. Maybe some sort of situational awareness class should be a mandatory part of high school curriculum...that stands the potential of decreasing rapes, human trafficking, workplace violence, terrorist attacks. Most people don't even know how to properly apply a tourniquet...that's pathetic. Personal responsibility or lack there of has most definitely, undeniably been a factor in almost all of these situations. In Orlando, it took 3 hours for SWAT to enter the building. What would you have done during those three hours? Sheep or sheepdog?

eddiec said:

If every gun owner joined

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

What are the letters I'm talking about its easy let me help you , NRA they are more powerful than the POTUS , congress, senate ...nothing will ever get done with them in charge !

Not to mention a little notion of being innocent until proven guilty. If rights start being taken away because someone is "presumed" or "assumed", then I'm thinking there is a 99% chance "suspected" terrorists will gain back their ability to purchase firearms after one or two lawsuits make those weak laws disappear for good. My question is "What are you doing to help". Posting on a Pearl Jam forum isn't exactly helping. It has been broadcast several times how a trained individual saved lives in Orlando because he had knowledge of situational awareness. There are free workshops all the time related to workplace safety, survival skills, etc. I have attended and participated in countless. That does not give me a 100% chance of surviving something like happened in Orlando, but it sure as hell raises those odds. It starts on a personal level. Maybe some sort of situational awareness class should be a mandatory part of high school curriculum...that stands the potential of decreasing rapes, human trafficking, workplace violence, terrorist attacks. Most people don't even know how to properly apply a tourniquet...that's pathetic. Personal responsibility or lack there of has most definitely, undeniably been a factor in almost all of these situations. In Orlando, it took 3 hours for SWAT to enter the building. What would you have done during those three hours? Sheep or sheepdog?

Situational awareness of what? Of every crowded place in the country?
I know the fictional character Shane always sat in the corner of the bar so he could see everyone who entered but in real life that isn't always possible. When you go to the movies you can't know who is around you.
I completely understand keeping your head on shoulders and avoiding seemingly dangerous situations but if you go to a movie theater and the guy 3 rows behind you whips out a rifle you're pretty fucked. Or a bar...or a sporting event..or a concert.

Are you serious? Know your exits, might even save you if a fire happened. Situation awareness covers all places. Take a class, you will be glad you did. It would answer all of these questions and then some. Again, there is nothing that can create a 100% chance of survival, but you can personally raise those odds by knowing where exits are, learning that fighting back is better than cowering... You would learn what kind of cover is the most effective...how to jam a door if needed. How many of those people died because people do not know how to stop bleeding? Knowledge can be a self defense weapon!

PJPOWER said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

What are the letters I'm talking about its easy let me help you , NRA they are more powerful than the POTUS , congress, senate ...nothing will ever get done with them in charge !

Not to mention a little notion of being innocent until proven guilty. If rights start being taken away because someone is "presumed" or "assumed", then I'm thinking there is a 99% chance "suspected" terrorists will gain back their ability to purchase firearms after one or two lawsuits make those weak laws disappear for good. My question is "What are you doing to help". Posting on a Pearl Jam forum isn't exactly helping. It has been broadcast several times how a trained individual saved lives in Orlando because he had knowledge of situational awareness. There are free workshops all the time related to workplace safety, survival skills, etc. I have attended and participated in countless. That does not give me a 100% chance of surviving something like happened in Orlando, but it sure as hell raises those odds. It starts on a personal level. Maybe some sort of situational awareness class should be a mandatory part of high school curriculum...that stands the potential of decreasing rapes, human trafficking, workplace violence, terrorist attacks. Most people don't even know how to properly apply a tourniquet...that's pathetic. Personal responsibility or lack there of has most definitely, undeniably been a factor in almost all of these situations. In Orlando, it took 3 hours for SWAT to enter the building. What would you have done during those three hours? Sheep or sheepdog?

Personal accountability of who? The victims? The cops? How much killing was actually done after the initial 15 minutes? Hostage situations typically last much longer than 3 hours. What were they doing? Figuring out a plan that would kill the least amount of people. You can't just come up with that in 20 minutes.

You misunderstood my question. If you were inside with the asshole, what would you do in those 3 hours? Do you know some of the breathing techniques to calm your heart rate so that you can think clearly under pressure or how to apply a simply tourniquet if needed? There are free classes out there that teach these things, just like there are CPR classes... Knowledge of these things would be helpful in so many situations outside of just an event like this.

Ok.

It's difficult for trained professionals (police, fire, ems, military) to do those things under pressure in a real life scenario. And they train almost daily. It's difficult to expect civilians to take a class and be able to apply it successfully. But I do not disagree with your premise.

PJPOWER said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJPOWER said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

What are the letters I'm talking about its easy let me help you , NRA they are more powerful than the POTUS , congress, senate ...nothing will ever get done with them in charge !

Not to mention a little notion of being innocent until proven guilty. If rights start being taken away because someone is "presumed" or "assumed", then I'm thinking there is a 99% chance "suspected" terrorists will gain back their ability to purchase firearms after one or two lawsuits make those weak laws disappear for good. My question is "What are you doing to help". Posting on a Pearl Jam forum isn't exactly helping. It has been broadcast several times how a trained individual saved lives in Orlando because he had knowledge of situational awareness. There are free workshops all the time related to workplace safety, survival skills, etc. I have attended and participated in countless. That does not give me a 100% chance of surviving something like happened in Orlando, but it sure as hell raises those odds. It starts on a personal level. Maybe some sort of situational awareness class should be a mandatory part of high school curriculum...that stands the potential of decreasing rapes, human trafficking, workplace violence, terrorist attacks. Most people don't even know how to properly apply a tourniquet...that's pathetic. Personal responsibility or lack there of has most definitely, undeniably been a factor in almost all of these situations. In Orlando, it took 3 hours for SWAT to enter the building. What would you have done during those three hours? Sheep or sheepdog?

Personal accountability of who? The victims? The cops? How much killing was actually done after the initial 15 minutes? Hostage situations typically last much longer than 3 hours. What were they doing? Figuring out a plan that would kill the least amount of people. You can't just come up with that in 20 minutes.

You misunderstood my question. If you were inside with the asshole, what would you do in those 3 hours? Do you know some of the breathing techniques to calm your heart rate so that you can think clearly under pressure or how to apply a simply tourniquet if needed? There are free classes out there that teach these things, just like there are CPR classes... Knowledge of these things would be helpful in so many situations outside of just an event like this.

Ok.

It's difficult for trained professionals (police, fire, ems, military) to do those things under pressure in a real life scenario. And they train almost daily. It's difficult to expect civilians to take a class and be able to apply it successfully. But I do not disagree with your premise.

I'm not sure I agree, adrenaline kicks in and many times they will say that their training completely took over. I know when I was working with children with behavioral problems, it was instinctual to recall training in tense scenarios. If you have nothing to fall back on, you freeze, panic, become an easy target.

I said it was difficult, not impossible. I was a fireman for 15 years and know the feeling. My point is to expect people to take a class and have the wherewithal to put it to use in a real life scenario is asking alot.

PJPOWER said:

Degeneratefk said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

josevolution said:

PJPOWER said:

I'm all for profiling, if someone looks batshit crazy or acts out of sorts then keep them in sight. If someone has ties or communications with known terrorists or organizations or are on a no fly list then a big red alert box should pop up on those instant background checks to let the seller know that is the case. Let's add known violent gang affiliation databases and start tracking that info as well. Better border securities that prevent the flow of illegal drugs and firearms.
Let's try that a few years. If the government abuses that authority, then we can push for a repeal. I still do not see any logical or realistic way of getting "assault rifles" out of the hands of civilians due to modern technology, but I think it's a good idea for people to have access and knowledge of who they are selling to in order to make informed decisions. Blocking access to those databases does seem pretty crazy. Hell, let's make that public access so we all know if we are living next to a suspected terrorist. Follow through with harsh punishments for violent offenders
I do not support "mental health databases" or whatever is being pushed in that realm, not that I think people with mental health problems should be buying guns, but because it could potentially turn those that really need help away and seems like a major violation of privacy.
I am adamantly apposed to any confiscation programs as it would essentially start a civil war. If you are okay with a police state then that is your prerogative. Buyback programs have been largely unsuccessful.
The problem is that there is no way of 100% stopping such an intigrated and culturally diverse society from experiencing problems with sociopathic individuals. You can personally start helping society by being realistic and aware of your surroundings. You do not have to live in fear, but know exits and what not when you go into places. Know some basic survival skills for if you are put in one of these situations. You do not have to wait on the politicians to enact laws to start doing those things!

Admirable coming from you , I bet none of the above you mention ever gets put in place why let's see if you can tell me why ? It's easy just three letters you know the letters I'm talking about ...

That and any time a bill gets brought up there are about 100 things that try and get sneaked in for either political reasons or to please constituents. Nothing is ever simple and straightforward.

What are the letters I'm talking about its easy let me help you , NRA they are more powerful than the POTUS , congress, senate ...nothing will ever get done with them in charge !

Not to mention a little notion of being innocent until proven guilty. If rights start being taken away because someone is "presumed" or "assumed", then I'm thinking there is a 99% chance "suspected" terrorists will gain back their ability to purchase firearms after one or two lawsuits make those weak laws disappear for good. My question is "What are you doing to help". Posting on a Pearl Jam forum isn't exactly helping. It has been broadcast several times how a trained individual saved lives in Orlando because he had knowledge of situational awareness. There are free workshops all the time related to workplace safety, survival skills, etc. I have attended and participated in countless. That does not give me a 100% chance of surviving something like happened in Orlando, but it sure as hell raises those odds. It starts on a personal level. Maybe some sort of situational awareness class should be a mandatory part of high school curriculum...that stands the potential of decreasing rapes, human trafficking, workplace violence, terrorist attacks. Most people don't even know how to properly apply a tourniquet...that's pathetic. Personal responsibility or lack there of has most definitely, undeniably been a factor in almost all of these situations. In Orlando, it took 3 hours for SWAT to enter the building. What would you have done during those three hours? Sheep or sheepdog?

Personal accountability of who? The victims? The cops? How much killing was actually done after the initial 15 minutes? Hostage situations typically last much longer than 3 hours. What were they doing? Figuring out a plan that would kill the least amount of people. You can't just come up with that in 20 minutes.

You misunderstood my question. If you were inside with the asshole, what would you do in those 3 hours? Do you know some of the breathing techniques to calm your heart rate so that you can think clearly under pressure or how to apply a simply tourniquet if needed? There are free classes out there that teach these things, just like there are CPR classes... Knowledge of these things would be helpful in so many situations outside of just an event like this.

While you make it sound plausible , it's absurd that I'd have to be trained in survival skills to go out dancing with my wife ! Doesn't it make more sense to make it harder for people to get the weapons ? Maybe just maybe pass some laws to get this done ...