America's Gun Violence

Cliffy6745 said:

Godfather. said:

rssesq said:

forget about that silly ol amendment Father, it don't matter. Just imagine if the founding fathers new about the warrantless bulk collection of data of all U.S. citizens and the facilities built to store such info.

They would be dusting off the muskets.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marjorie-cohn/nsa-metadata-collection-f_b_4611211.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

all that info collected and they can't even use it properly LOL !!

Godfather.

You mean to keep the guns out of potential terrorists hands? Pretty sure they have been trying that but you can thank the good ole NRA

aren't some of these people amazing? they want to throw people they deem as threats out of the country...but have no problems selling war-like assault weapons to said threats. fucked up mind set.

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

Seriously, though, do you want to know how to stop attacks like these from happening? Factually it would work.
First you have to come to the conclusion that there are crazy people that will stop at nothing short of being killed. They are around us, it's a fact. Sucks that facts like these exist, but we are technically in a time of war with ISIS.
You ignore that fact and you may or may not live through an event such as this. If you like a little more control of your destiny, you learn how to increase your odds of survival if put in a situation such as this or just avoid the situation all together, yeah it's shitty that the world is this way.
That's for people to decide. But if you choose to arm yourself, do it properly. Take a class, learn situational awareness. Learn how to shoot correctly and be able to handle yourself.
Or just keep on talking about how to make things magically disappear, it's most definitely your choice...billions of guns out there...BILLIONS! Zero at that place and what happened? What could have stopped this guy 3 feet inside the door? A properly trained "gun nut" would have done the job, but he is not going to be at a place of such vulnerability.

What, you mean like the armed, well trained, off duty police officer that engaged the shooter?
Oh yeah, that's right, that didn't stop this nightmare from occuring, because he had a semi-automatic tactically appointed rifle designed to provide maximum killing potential in urban warfare environments, and it isn't as simple as gun nuts' fantasies' would have everyone believe.
Trotting out the same lame old sound bites to protect your gun stroking existence without thinking of whether or not they actually apply is a spit in the face of the victims of the tragedy.

"All I heard was gunfire after gunfire," Wolf said. "Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going."

And I'm supposed to have sympathy for grown-ass gun stroking enthusiasts who have Rambo fantasies and play cops and robbers in their heads, hobbyists wbl just like shooting cool guns, and collectors with walls of weapons that they sit and stare at???
FUCK THAT!

First of all, police are not at all trained in the firearm proficiency that most think. When I took my CCW class, the two officers that were in there actually scored lowest of the whole class in the shooting portion. Most pass the minimum requirements and move on. I've seen it time and time again at the gun range. Now the military folks are a completely different story.
Secondly, you completely missed my second point. Learn how to minimize your odds. Don't be a sheep, if your last resort is to fight then fucking charge this guy and FIGHT! Odds are an Islamic Radical terrorist is not going to turn around and go home if there is a law banning firearms. It may take them slightly longer to acquire, but they will get them. Hell, you can make most of the components on a $1000 3D printer. How the fucking hell are you going to stop one of these ideology driven maniacs? I just do not understand how this "ban assault weapons" rhetoric is going to stop these incidents from happening. It's fun to talk about, but you cannot ban them from the hands of ISIS assholes. Fuck, I wish Nickleback music would disappear, but there is always going to be the nut job with a stockpile waiting for the perfect time when it will cause the most damage to play it.
Maybe I have worked in social services a little to long and am a bit cynical, but people are not remotely aware of how many fucked up people are around them everywhere they go. It blows my mind seeing people wondering around oblivious to their surroundings.

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

Seriously, though, do you want to know how to stop attacks like these from happening? Factually it would work.
First you have to come to the conclusion that there are crazy people that will stop at nothing short of being killed. They are around us, it's a fact. Sucks that facts like these exist, but we are technically in a time of war with ISIS.
You ignore that fact and you may or may not live through an event such as this. If you like a little more control of your destiny, you learn how to increase your odds of survival if put in a situation such as this or just avoid the situation all together, yeah it's shitty that the world is this way.
That's for people to decide. But if you choose to arm yourself, do it properly. Take a class, learn situational awareness. Learn how to shoot correctly and be able to handle yourself.
Or just keep on talking about how to make things magically disappear, it's most definitely your choice...billions of guns out there...BILLIONS! Zero at that place and what happened? What could have stopped this guy 3 feet inside the door? A properly trained "gun nut" would have done the job, but he is not going to be at a place of such vulnerability.

What, you mean like the armed, well trained, off duty police officer that engaged the shooter?
Oh yeah, that's right, that didn't stop this nightmare from occuring, because he had a semi-automatic tactically appointed rifle designed to provide maximum killing potential in urban warfare environments, and it isn't as simple as gun nuts' fantasies' would have everyone believe.
Trotting out the same lame old sound bites to protect your gun stroking existence without thinking of whether or not they actually apply is a spit in the face of the victims of the tragedy.

"All I heard was gunfire after gunfire," Wolf said. "Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going."

And I'm supposed to have sympathy for grown-ass gun stroking enthusiasts who have Rambo fantasies and play cops and robbers in their heads, hobbyists wbl just like shooting cool guns, and collectors with walls of weapons that they sit and stare at???
FUCK THAT!

First of all, police are not all trained in the firearm proficiency that most think. Most pass the minimum requirements and move on.
Secondly, you completely missed my second point. Learn how to minimize your odds. Don't be a sheep, if your last resort is to fight then fucking charge this guy and FIGHT! Odds are an Islamic Radical terrorist is not going to turn around and go home if there is a law banning firearms. It may take them slightly longer to acquire, but they will get them. Hell, you can make most of the components on a $1000 3D printer. How the fucking hell are you going to stop one of these ideology driven maniacs? I just do not understand how this "ban assault weapons" rhetoric is going to stop these incidents from happening. It's fun to talk about, but you cannot ban them from the hands of ISIS assholes. Fuck, I wish Nickleback music would disappear, but there is always going to be the nut job with a stockpile waiting for the perfect time when it will cause the most damage to play it.
Maybe I have worked in social services a little to long and am a bit cynical, but people are not remotely aware of how many fucked up people are around them everywhere they go. It blows my mind seeing people wondering around oblivious to their surroundings.

you do realize that most of these mass killings have nothing to do with terrorism or ISIS right? strange part about your post is the 1st half talks about radical islam but then 2nd part talks about how many fucked up people there are. shouldn't we make it almost impossible for these 'fucked up' people to get assault weapons?

That's my original point, how the fuck are you going to make it "almost impossible"? You can make guns from a 3D printer. You can make your own ammo. Billions are already out there, and technology has only made them easier to produce on an individual level. You can create a hurdle, but you cannot make them "almost impossible" to get. That doesn't even touch other means of violence such as pipe bombs and pressure cookers filled with nails.

pjhawks said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Godfather. said:

rssesq said:

forget about that silly ol amendment Father, it don't matter. Just imagine if the founding fathers new about the warrantless bulk collection of data of all U.S. citizens and the facilities built to store such info.

They would be dusting off the muskets.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marjorie-cohn/nsa-metadata-collection-f_b_4611211.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

all that info collected and they can't even use it properly LOL !!

Godfather.

You mean to keep the guns out of potential terrorists hands? Pretty sure they have been trying that but you can thank the good ole NRA

aren't some of these people amazing? they want to throw people they deem as threats out of the country...but have no problems selling war-like assault weapons to said threats. fucked up mind set.

just like the US government.

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

Seriously, though, do you want to know how to stop attacks like these from happening? Factually it would work.
First you have to come to the conclusion that there are crazy people that will stop at nothing short of being killed. They are around us, it's a fact. Sucks that facts like these exist, but we are technically in a time of war with ISIS.
You ignore that fact and you may or may not live through an event such as this. If you like a little more control of your destiny, you learn how to increase your odds of survival if put in a situation such as this or just avoid the situation all together, yeah it's shitty that the world is this way.
That's for people to decide. But if you choose to arm yourself, do it properly. Take a class, learn situational awareness. Learn how to shoot correctly and be able to handle yourself.
Or just keep on talking about how to make things magically disappear, it's most definitely your choice...billions of guns out there...BILLIONS! Zero at that place and what happened? What could have stopped this guy 3 feet inside the door? A properly trained "gun nut" would have done the job, but he is not going to be at a place of such vulnerability.

What, you mean like the armed, well trained, off duty police officer that engaged the shooter?
Oh yeah, that's right, that didn't stop this nightmare from occuring, because he had a semi-automatic tactically appointed rifle designed to provide maximum killing potential in urban warfare environments, and it isn't as simple as gun nuts' fantasies' would have everyone believe.
Trotting out the same lame old sound bites to protect your gun stroking existence without thinking of whether or not they actually apply is a spit in the face of the victims of the tragedy.

"All I heard was gunfire after gunfire," Wolf said. "Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going."

And I'm supposed to have sympathy for grown-ass gun stroking enthusiasts who have Rambo fantasies and play cops and robbers in their heads, hobbyists wbl just like shooting cool guns, and collectors with walls of weapons that they sit and stare at???
FUCK THAT!

First of all, police are not all trained in the firearm proficiency that most think. Most pass the minimum requirements and move on.
Secondly, you completely missed my second point. Learn how to minimize your odds. Don't be a sheep, if your last resort is to fight then fucking charge this guy and FIGHT! Odds are an Islamic Radical terrorist is not going to turn around and go home if there is a law banning firearms. It may take them slightly longer to acquire, but they will get them. Hell, you can make most of the components on a $1000 3D printer. How the fucking hell are you going to stop one of these ideology driven maniacs? I just do not understand how this "ban assault weapons" rhetoric is going to stop these incidents from happening. It's fun to talk about, but you cannot ban them from the hands of ISIS assholes. Fuck, I wish Nickleback music would disappear, but there is always going to be the nut job with a stockpile waiting for the perfect time when it will cause the most damage to play it.
Maybe I have worked in social services a little to long and am a bit cynical, but people are not remotely aware of how many fucked up people are around them everywhere they go. It blows my mind seeing people wondering around oblivious to their surroundings.

you do realize that most of these mass killings have nothing to do with terrorism or ISIS right? strange part about your post is the 1st half talks about radical islam but then 2nd part talks about how many fucked up people there are. shouldn't we make it almost impossible for these 'fucked up' people to get assault weapons?

That's my original point, how the fuck are you going to make it "almost impossible"? You can make guns from a 3D printer. You can make your own ammo. Billions are already out there, and technology has only made them easier to produce on an individual level. You can create a hurdle, but you cannot make them "almost impossible" to get. That doesn't even touch other means of violence such as pipe bombs and pressure cookers filled with nails.

do you realize how nutty it sounds to admit there is a problem but then advocate doing NOTHING to change it?

also this is not a terrorism problem. most mass shootings in this country have had nothing to do with terrorism. it's just crazy fucks having easy access to fast killing weapons. why is this difficult to understand?

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

Seriously, though, do you want to know how to stop attacks like these from happening? Factually it would work.
First you have to come to the conclusion that there are crazy people that will stop at nothing short of being killed. They are around us, it's a fact. Sucks that facts like these exist, but we are technically in a time of war with ISIS.
You ignore that fact and you may or may not live through an event such as this. If you like a little more control of your destiny, you learn how to increase your odds of survival if put in a situation such as this or just avoid the situation all together, yeah it's shitty that the world is this way.
That's for people to decide. But if you choose to arm yourself, do it properly. Take a class, learn situational awareness. Learn how to shoot correctly and be able to handle yourself.
Or just keep on talking about how to make things magically disappear, it's most definitely your choice...billions of guns out there...BILLIONS! Zero at that place and what happened? What could have stopped this guy 3 feet inside the door? A properly trained "gun nut" would have done the job, but he is not going to be at a place of such vulnerability.

What, you mean like the armed, well trained, off duty police officer that engaged the shooter?
Oh yeah, that's right, that didn't stop this nightmare from occuring, because he had a semi-automatic tactically appointed rifle designed to provide maximum killing potential in urban warfare environments, and it isn't as simple as gun nuts' fantasies' would have everyone believe.
Trotting out the same lame old sound bites to protect your gun stroking existence without thinking of whether or not they actually apply is a spit in the face of the victims of the tragedy.

"All I heard was gunfire after gunfire," Wolf said. "Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going."

And I'm supposed to have sympathy for grown-ass gun stroking enthusiasts who have Rambo fantasies and play cops and robbers in their heads, hobbyists wbl just like shooting cool guns, and collectors with walls of weapons that they sit and stare at???
FUCK THAT!

First of all, police are not all trained in the firearm proficiency that most think. Most pass the minimum requirements and move on.
Secondly, you completely missed my second point. Learn how to minimize your odds. Don't be a sheep, if your last resort is to fight then fucking charge this guy and FIGHT! Odds are an Islamic Radical terrorist is not going to turn around and go home if there is a law banning firearms. It may take them slightly longer to acquire, but they will get them. Hell, you can make most of the components on a $1000 3D printer. How the fucking hell are you going to stop one of these ideology driven maniacs? I just do not understand how this "ban assault weapons" rhetoric is going to stop these incidents from happening. It's fun to talk about, but you cannot ban them from the hands of ISIS assholes. Fuck, I wish Nickleback music would disappear, but there is always going to be the nut job with a stockpile waiting for the perfect time when it will cause the most damage to play it.
Maybe I have worked in social services a little to long and am a bit cynical, but people are not remotely aware of how many fucked up people are around them everywhere they go. It blows my mind seeing people wondering around oblivious to their surroundings.

So let's completely saturate society with countless guns and yell, "Every man for themselves!"

You ignored my previous response, but I'd like to hear what you have to say regarding this: there is no band aid remedy for your gun problem. The time to fix today's problems was 20 years ago. 20 years from now... do you want our children picking up the ball and carrying on with this lopsided debate? Or would you prefer a chance to make your country safer as all other developed countries have done for themselves?

You might have to sacrifice a portion of your hobby, but hell, man... look what some sacrificed in Europe or the Pacific to try and keep your country 'safe'. The absolute refusal to look at the problem for what it is- even the willingness to appear foolish by presenting silly arguments as a defence- is what blows my mind. I mean... I get hearing the gun lover's argument from a one toothed yokel, but from a seemingly intelligent person with writing skills?

No, I have chosen to ignore people that call others "one toothed yokel" and the like. That rhetoric only helps to spread hate and division. My point is that the country is already flooded with guns...more than is comprehensible.
And it's not like these other countries are utopias. I'm fine with gun death rates being higher than other countries if it means burglars and rapists are getting put down. I'm sure the gangs of Chicago would completely comply with a buyback program, right?
Harsher penalties are good thing, I would even be somewhat okay with a license similar to CCWs if it didn't have other taxing agendas tied to it. But these "bans" are akin to prohibition of other things that have been proven only to cause more problems.

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

pjhawks said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

Seriously, though, do you want to know how to stop attacks like these from happening? Factually it would work.
First you have to come to the conclusion that there are crazy people that will stop at nothing short of being killed. They are around us, it's a fact. Sucks that facts like these exist, but we are technically in a time of war with ISIS.
You ignore that fact and you may or may not live through an event such as this. If you like a little more control of your destiny, you learn how to increase your odds of survival if put in a situation such as this or just avoid the situation all together, yeah it's shitty that the world is this way.
That's for people to decide. But if you choose to arm yourself, do it properly. Take a class, learn situational awareness. Learn how to shoot correctly and be able to handle yourself.
Or just keep on talking about how to make things magically disappear, it's most definitely your choice...billions of guns out there...BILLIONS! Zero at that place and what happened? What could have stopped this guy 3 feet inside the door? A properly trained "gun nut" would have done the job, but he is not going to be at a place of such vulnerability.

What, you mean like the armed, well trained, off duty police officer that engaged the shooter?
Oh yeah, that's right, that didn't stop this nightmare from occuring, because he had a semi-automatic tactically appointed rifle designed to provide maximum killing potential in urban warfare environments, and it isn't as simple as gun nuts' fantasies' would have everyone believe.
Trotting out the same lame old sound bites to protect your gun stroking existence without thinking of whether or not they actually apply is a spit in the face of the victims of the tragedy.

"All I heard was gunfire after gunfire," Wolf said. "Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going."

And I'm supposed to have sympathy for grown-ass gun stroking enthusiasts who have Rambo fantasies and play cops and robbers in their heads, hobbyists wbl just like shooting cool guns, and collectors with walls of weapons that they sit and stare at???
FUCK THAT!

First of all, police are not all trained in the firearm proficiency that most think. Most pass the minimum requirements and move on.
Secondly, you completely missed my second point. Learn how to minimize your odds. Don't be a sheep, if your last resort is to fight then fucking charge this guy and FIGHT! Odds are an Islamic Radical terrorist is not going to turn around and go home if there is a law banning firearms. It may take them slightly longer to acquire, but they will get them. Hell, you can make most of the components on a $1000 3D printer. How the fucking hell are you going to stop one of these ideology driven maniacs? I just do not understand how this "ban assault weapons" rhetoric is going to stop these incidents from happening. It's fun to talk about, but you cannot ban them from the hands of ISIS assholes. Fuck, I wish Nickleback music would disappear, but there is always going to be the nut job with a stockpile waiting for the perfect time when it will cause the most damage to play it.
Maybe I have worked in social services a little to long and am a bit cynical, but people are not remotely aware of how many fucked up people are around them everywhere they go. It blows my mind seeing people wondering around oblivious to their surroundings.

you do realize that most of these mass killings have nothing to do with terrorism or ISIS right? strange part about your post is the 1st half talks about radical islam but then 2nd part talks about how many fucked up people there are. shouldn't we make it almost impossible for these 'fucked up' people to get assault weapons?

That's my original point, how the fuck are you going to make it "almost impossible"? You can make guns from a 3D printer. You can make your own ammo. Billions are already out there, and technology has only made them easier to produce on an individual level. You can create a hurdle, but you cannot make them "almost impossible" to get. That doesn't even touch other means of violence such as pipe bombs and pressure cookers filled with nails.

do you realize how nutty it sounds to admit there is a problem but then advocate doing NOTHING to change it?

also this is not a terrorism problem. most mass shootings in this country have had nothing to do with terrorism. it's just crazy fucks having easy access to fast killing weapons. why is this difficult to understand?

I've given plenty of good ideas that you choose to ignore. Stop being sheep is a great one. Be realistic that there is violence and learn situational awareness. I just tend to believe solutions start on personal levels, not government mandated programs.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

Seriously, though, do you want to know how to stop attacks like these from happening? Factually it would work.
First you have to come to the conclusion that there are crazy people that will stop at nothing short of being killed. They are around us, it's a fact. Sucks that facts like these exist, but we are technically in a time of war with ISIS.
You ignore that fact and you may or may not live through an event such as this. If you like a little more control of your destiny, you learn how to increase your odds of survival if put in a situation such as this or just avoid the situation all together, yeah it's shitty that the world is this way.
That's for people to decide. But if you choose to arm yourself, do it properly. Take a class, learn situational awareness. Learn how to shoot correctly and be able to handle yourself.
Or just keep on talking about how to make things magically disappear, it's most definitely your choice...billions of guns out there...BILLIONS! Zero at that place and what happened? What could have stopped this guy 3 feet inside the door? A properly trained "gun nut" would have done the job, but he is not going to be at a place of such vulnerability.

What, you mean like the armed, well trained, off duty police officer that engaged the shooter?
Oh yeah, that's right, that didn't stop this nightmare from occuring, because he had a semi-automatic tactically appointed rifle designed to provide maximum killing potential in urban warfare environments, and it isn't as simple as gun nuts' fantasies' would have everyone believe.
Trotting out the same lame old sound bites to protect your gun stroking existence without thinking of whether or not they actually apply is a spit in the face of the victims of the tragedy.

"All I heard was gunfire after gunfire," Wolf said. "Eventually, I thought you were supposed to run out of ammunition. But it just kept going and going."

And I'm supposed to have sympathy for grown-ass gun stroking enthusiasts who have Rambo fantasies and play cops and robbers in their heads, hobbyists wbl just like shooting cool guns, and collectors with walls of weapons that they sit and stare at???
FUCK THAT!

First of all, police are not all trained in the firearm proficiency that most think. Most pass the minimum requirements and move on.
Secondly, you completely missed my second point. Learn how to minimize your odds. Don't be a sheep, if your last resort is to fight then fucking charge this guy and FIGHT! Odds are an Islamic Radical terrorist is not going to turn around and go home if there is a law banning firearms. It may take them slightly longer to acquire, but they will get them. Hell, you can make most of the components on a $1000 3D printer. How the fucking hell are you going to stop one of these ideology driven maniacs? I just do not understand how this "ban assault weapons" rhetoric is going to stop these incidents from happening. It's fun to talk about, but you cannot ban them from the hands of ISIS assholes. Fuck, I wish Nickleback music would disappear, but there is always going to be the nut job with a stockpile waiting for the perfect time when it will cause the most damage to play it.
Maybe I have worked in social services a little to long and am a bit cynical, but people are not remotely aware of how many fucked up people are around them everywhere they go. It blows my mind seeing people wondering around oblivious to their surroundings.

So let's completely saturate society with countless guns and yell, "Every man for themselves!"

You ignored my previous response, but I'd like to hear what you have to say regarding this: there is no band aid remedy for your gun problem. The time to fix today's problems was 20 years ago. 20 years from now... do you want our children picking up the ball and carrying on with this lopsided debate? Or would you prefer a chance to make your country safer as all other developed countries have done for themselves?

You might have to sacrifice a portion of your hobby, but hell, man... look what some sacrificed in Europe or the Pacific to try and keep your country 'safe'. The absolute refusal to look at the problem for what it is- even the willingness to appear foolish by presenting silly arguments as a defence- is what blows my mind. I mean... I get hearing the gun lover's argument from a one toothed yokel, but from a seemingly intelligent person with writing skills?

No, I have chosen to ignore people that call others "one toothed yokel" and the like. That rhetoric only helps to spread hate and division. My point is that the country is already flooded with guns...more than is comprehensible.
And it's not like these other countries are utopias. I'm fine with gun death rates being higher than other countries if it means burglars and rapists are getting put down. I'm sure the gangs of Chicago would completely comply with a buyback program, right?
Harsher penalties are good thing, I would even be somewhat okay with a license similar to CCWs if it didn't have other taxing agendas tied to it. But these "bans" are akin to prohibition of other things that have been proven only to cause more problems.

You're comparing banning assault rifles to banning alcohol?

And you skipped the question: chance at meaningful change or continue the downward spiral?

Meaningful change, yes. I just differ on what that means. And I'm comparing prohibition to prohibition. Prohibition does not work, it has been shown time and time again. Let's put our effort into meaningfully changing the shitty education we are providing for starts. Even the mention of prohibiting firearms has resulted in people flooding to the gun counters.

http://www.theonion.com/article/concerned-nra-official-rushes-out-purchase-congres-53084

polaris_x said:

i would side with the people who say a ban or more regulations on guns would not solve the mass shootings that have happened ... it would likely prevent a few accidental deaths but by in large - i'd speculate that the gun violence statistics would stay pretty much the same ...

america has a violence problem which is amplified with it's love affair with guns and all things destructive ... how many of y'all who support stricter gun laws are also the same people who say that if anyone tried to hurt your family - you'd go after those people!? ...

the country was born from violence and has a legacy of violence ... one of the biggest lobbies in the country is the NRA and the military industrial complex is a driver of US foreign policy ...

aren't all countries born, or at least bred at some point in their history, on violence?