Too many posts to reply to specifically but what I want to ask our conservative members here is, where do you draw the line on your conservatism? Do any of you really stand with Trump and his racist, neo-nazi agenda? If so, can you really expect the majority of others who post here to accept that as a reasonable and rational choice? I'm not talking about economics of abortion or other issues that could be interpreted as having grey areas. I'm talking about Donald Trump, a man who is running for POTUS on a racist, hate based platform. If you can say, "Yes, I support that agenda" then say so. Tell us why you hate blacks and Hispanics. Tell us why it's ok in your viewpoint for Trump to encourage his followers to use violence against his opponents. Tell us why its ok for Trump to refer to immigrants as “illegals” and the children of illegal immigrants as “anchor babies". Tell us why you think these things are ok. And after you do that, please stop arguing about why some of us wonder why the hell you want to argue those points here.
I don't care if you are fiscally conservative or you hate granola or believe those of us who are in favor of peace are naive but if you support someone like Trump who promotes hate you are not going to get one inch of slack from me. Sorry, but I don't buy that kind of bullshit. No way.
Who says that Trump and/or Trump's supporters hate blacks and Hispanics? What Trump and his supporters hate are ILLEGAL (meaning not allowed BY LAW) immigrants constantly coming into our country on a daily basis.
You must watch MSNBC too much as well as Rev. Al Sharpton's daily racist comments against whites and Republicans as a whole.
(See, we can talk smack about your 100% biased news station too)
"Must I keep explaining my decisions to you strangers of the Internet?" - Merch tent 8/19/16
If I were going to a website that has a MAJORITY of members that were Conservatives, then started baiting threads everyday, that I knew were going to create arguments, I would hope to begin to think just maybe I needed to rethink my need for attention.
I've asked the same questions you've asked a couple of times. myyoung, and never really gotten much a fix on it. Odd as it may seem, there are some very conservative people who enjoy the music made by a band that has been outspokenly liberal in their viewpoints. I sometimes wonder if there are very liberal minded folks who still listen to Ted Nugent. Yes, very perplexing.
Is it really perplexing? With all due respect this can be seen as making inferences towards the old "you're with us or you're against us" mentality. Perhaps people find solace in Pearl Jam's art in ways that transcend political views. You can care deeply about people/things despite not seeing eye to eye on things political. There's a lot more to life than that! I know you know this so please don't read this as uppity or preachy but this line of discussion has come up before and it kind of comes across as exclusionary. Beyond the band preaching any type of hatred (which they obviously don't) I don't see why people of all backgrounds, opinions, etc., can't find something from them. I think it is pretty awesome that people enjoy the band despite having differing opinions and coming from different walks of life.
What do you think the band members would say if asked whether they think it's cool to question fandom based purely on political views? Beyond basic human rights stuff, politics are but a small picture of what someone is and I think they know this (but who knows, maybe I'm wrong).
I'm not saying that people who are highly conservative should not be Pearl Jam fans. I never said that. I just find it odd. It's not like the band's liberal/progressive attributes are like their clothes of hair cuts which have changed numerous times during their career. Those progressive elements have been an integral part of they band all along. So yeah, it is perplexing... to me at least. But do I think conservatives should not be allowed to be fans? Of course they can.
As long as they don't yell at shows to "shut up and sing". Conservative fans are fully welcome being PJ fans, as long as they don't expect an openly politically and socially liberal band to be something they're not.
It's acceptable to protest or exercize free speech when it comes to Trump but not Vedder? Freedom of speech goes both ways.
It's almost as if there are two sets of fans when presented by an opinion such as the above. An elitist, cliquish type fanfare. Certainly not like trump.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,963
Too many posts to reply to specifically but what I want to ask our conservative members here is, where do you draw the line on your conservatism? Do any of you really stand with Trump and his racist, neo-nazi agenda? If so, can you really expect the majority of others who post here to accept that as a reasonable and rational choice? I'm not talking about economics of abortion or other issues that could be interpreted as having grey areas. I'm talking about Donald Trump, a man who is running for POTUS on a racist, hate based platform. If you can say, "Yes, I support that agenda" then say so. Tell us why you hate blacks and Hispanics. Tell us why it's ok in your viewpoint for Trump to encourage his followers to use violence against his opponents. Tell us why its ok for Trump to refer to immigrants as “illegals” and the children of illegal immigrants as “anchor babies". Tell us why you think these things are ok. And after you do that, please stop arguing about why some of us wonder why the hell you want to argue those points here.
I don't care if you are fiscally conservative or you hate granola or believe those of us who are in favor of peace are naive but if you support someone like Trump who promotes hate you are not going to get one inch of slack from me. Sorry, but I don't buy that kind of bullshit. No way.
Who says that Trump and/or Trump's supporters hate blacks and Hispanics? What Trump and his supporters hate are ILLEGAL (meaning not allowed BY LAW) immigrants constantly coming into our country on a daily basis.
You must watch MSNBC too much as well as Rev. Al Sharpton's daily racist comments against whites and Republicans as a whole.
(See, we can talk smack about your 100% biased news station too)
Where do you get this stuff from? You really don't understand that Trump is a racist?
And why on earth do you think I watch MSNBC? WTF?
Or that I watch Rev. Al Sharpton? As best I can recall, I have never mentioned anything about Sharpton on AMT.
You want to talk smack about my 100% biased news station? WTF does that mean? What news station would that be?
It is awful, and some have claimed the other side is fascist for trying to shut this shit down. It's depressing. I still have not met 1 single Trump supporter in person. Where are all these loonies? I would be interested to have an honest conversation with one.
Too many posts to reply to specifically but what I want to ask our conservative members here is, where do you draw the line on your conservatism? Do any of you really stand with Trump and his racist, neo-nazi agenda? If so, can you really expect the majority of others who post here to accept that as a reasonable and rational choice? I'm not talking about economics of abortion or other issues that could be interpreted as having grey areas. I'm talking about Donald Trump, a man who is running for POTUS on a racist, hate based platform. If you can say, "Yes, I support that agenda" then say so. Tell us why you hate blacks and Hispanics. Tell us why it's ok in your viewpoint for Trump to encourage his followers to use violence against his opponents. Tell us why its ok for Trump to refer to immigrants as “illegals” and the children of illegal immigrants as “anchor babies". Tell us why you think these things are ok. And after you do that, please stop arguing about why some of us wonder why the hell you want to argue those points here.
I don't care if you are fiscally conservative or you hate granola or believe those of us who are in favor of peace are naive but if you support someone like Trump who promotes hate you are not going to get one inch of slack from me. Sorry, but I don't buy that kind of bullshit. No way.
Who says that Trump and/or Trump's supporters hate blacks and Hispanics? What Trump and his supporters hate are ILLEGAL (meaning not allowed BY LAW) immigrants constantly coming into our country on a daily basis.
You must watch MSNBC too much as well as Rev. Al Sharpton's daily racist comments against whites and Republicans as a whole.
(See, we can talk smack about your 100% biased news station too)
Where do you get this stuff from? You really don't understand that Trump is a racist?
And why on earth do you think I watch MSNBC? WTF?
Or that I watch Rev. Al Sharpton? As best I can recall, I have never mentioned anything about Sharpton on AMT.
You want to talk smack about my 100% biased news station? WTF does that mean? What news station would that be?
Why are you making this shit up?
I'm using the stereotypical liberal station MSNBC just like you all like to knock Fox News for being "biased" when in fact it shows both sides of politics everyday.
And yes, I must not understand that Trump is a "racist". Please thoroughly educate me why.
And your question about what news station I'm talking about, is clearly about MSNBC since that's what I clearly said. Pay attention
"Must I keep explaining my decisions to you strangers of the Internet?" - Merch tent 8/19/16
Too many posts to reply to specifically but what I want to ask our conservative members here is, where do you draw the line on your conservatism? Do any of you really stand with Trump and his racist, neo-nazi agenda? If so, can you really expect the majority of others who post here to accept that as a reasonable and rational choice? I'm not talking about economics of abortion or other issues that could be interpreted as having grey areas. I'm talking about Donald Trump, a man who is running for POTUS on a racist, hate based platform. If you can say, "Yes, I support that agenda" then say so. Tell us why you hate blacks and Hispanics. Tell us why it's ok in your viewpoint for Trump to encourage his followers to use violence against his opponents. Tell us why its ok for Trump to refer to immigrants as “illegals” and the children of illegal immigrants as “anchor babies". Tell us why you think these things are ok. And after you do that, please stop arguing about why some of us wonder why the hell you want to argue those points here.
I don't care if you are fiscally conservative or you hate granola or believe those of us who are in favor of peace are naive but if you support someone like Trump who promotes hate you are not going to get one inch of slack from me. Sorry, but I don't buy that kind of bullshit. No way.
Who says that Trump and/or Trump's supporters hate blacks and Hispanics? What Trump and his supporters hate are ILLEGAL (meaning not allowed BY LAW) immigrants constantly coming into our country on a daily basis.
You must watch MSNBC too much as well as Rev. Al Sharpton's daily racist comments against whites and Republicans as a whole.
(See, we can talk smack about your 100% biased news station too)
Where do you get this stuff from? You really don't understand that Trump is a racist?
And why on earth do you think I watch MSNBC? WTF?
Or that I watch Rev. Al Sharpton? As best I can recall, I have never mentioned anything about Sharpton on AMT.
You want to talk smack about my 100% biased news station? WTF does that mean? What news station would that be?
Why are you making this shit up?
Get out of here with your liberal LOGIC, Brian! And your FACTS! LIBERAL!!!!!
I don't think Obama really minds Trump. At the correspondents dinner Trump was in attendance and I'm pretty sure the POTUS has the final say on the guest list. The banter that Trump took from Obama clearly set the stage for Donald to run. And this is where memories of the President’s performance come into play and take on a potency that one might not have understood at the time. For the politics of populist nationalism are almost entirely the politics of felt humiliation—the politics of shame. And one can’t help but suspect that, on that night, Trump’s own sense of public humiliation became so overwhelming that he decided, perhaps at first unconsciously, that he would, somehow, get his own back—perhaps even pursue the Presidency after all, no matter how nihilistically or absurdly, and redeem himself. Though he gave up the hunt for office in that campaign, it does not seem too far-fetched to imagine that the rage—Lukacs’s fear and hatred—implanted in him that night has fuelled him ever since. http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trump-and-obama-a-night-to-remember
It is awful, and some have claimed the other side is fascist for trying to shut this shit down. It's depressing. I still have not met 1 single Trump supporter in person. Where are all these loonies? I would be interested to have an honest conversation with one.
Forgive me for assuming that you aren't part of the %1 or the Hollywood elite. That could be your problem.
It is awful, and some have claimed the other side is fascist for trying to shut this shit down. It's depressing. I still have not met 1 single Trump supporter in person. Where are all these loonies? I would be interested to have an honest conversation with one.
Forgive me for assuming that you aren't part of the %1 or the Hollywood elite. That could be your problem.
Lol, I really don't understand it. It's not like I live in a hotbed of liberalism. I don't get it, are these people only showing their support at rallies or on the internet?
Trump and Sanders supporters going to war with each other helps only the Republican and Democratic establishments. Bernie can't have his people getting dragged down into this muck.
You're right, it hurts Bernie. Strategic blunder by his fan base. Not that I'm drawing equivalency between the movements AT ALL, but that was what was so effective about the Civil Rights movement. It showed peace vs. violence. Democrats and left leaning people cannot respond with violence and disruption. They must stick with peaceful protests.
Absolutely but the problem is that his supporters are populated by the same Social Justice Warriors that aim to shut down speech they don't agree with at college campuses across North America. These kids have grown up thinking this behaviour is ok and that they have a right to "not be offended". Nobody has ever taught them what correct political discourse is.
I'm not sure how different they are than the kids coming out of the late 60's when the issue was Vietnam.
What everyone needs to remember is what happened when the Dems put up McGovern in 72 and the GOP with Goldwater in 64. These were both hard core warriors of their respective parties. And they both got smoked in the general.
Except Vietnam and the threat of being drafted in a war they didn't believe in was real. The civil rights issues of the time were real. These kids have it good compared to the children of the 60's.
Trump and Sanders supporters going to war with each other helps only the Republican and Democratic establishments. Bernie can't have his people getting dragged down into this muck.
You're right, it hurts Bernie. Strategic blunder by his fan base. Not that I'm drawing equivalency between the movements AT ALL, but that was what was so effective about the Civil Rights movement. It showed peace vs. violence. Democrats and left leaning people cannot respond with violence and disruption. They must stick with peaceful protests.
Absolutely but the problem is that his supporters are populated by the same Social Justice Warriors that aim to shut down speech they don't agree with at college campuses across North America. These kids have grown up thinking this behaviour is ok and that they have a right to "not be offended". Nobody has ever taught them what correct political discourse is.
I'm not sure how different they are than the kids coming out of the late 60's when the issue was Vietnam.
What everyone needs to remember is what happened when the Dems put up McGovern in 72 and the GOP with Goldwater in 64. These were both hard core warriors of their respective parties. And they both got smoked in the general.
Except Vietnam and the threat of being drafted in a war they didn't believe in was real. The civil rights issues of the time were real. These kids have it good compared to the children of the 60's.
True
Just because something is better than it used to be, doesn't mean it can't be better.
Trump and Sanders supporters going to war with each other helps only the Republican and Democratic establishments. Bernie can't have his people getting dragged down into this muck.
You're right, it hurts Bernie. Strategic blunder by his fan base. Not that I'm drawing equivalency between the movements AT ALL, but that was what was so effective about the Civil Rights movement. It showed peace vs. violence. Democrats and left leaning people cannot respond with violence and disruption. They must stick with peaceful protests.
Absolutely but the problem is that his supporters are populated by the same Social Justice Warriors that aim to shut down speech they don't agree with at college campuses across North America. These kids have grown up thinking this behaviour is ok and that they have a right to "not be offended". Nobody has ever taught them what correct political discourse is.
I'm not sure how different they are than the kids coming out of the late 60's when the issue was Vietnam.
What everyone needs to remember is what happened when the Dems put up McGovern in 72 and the GOP with Goldwater in 64. These were both hard core warriors of their respective parties. And they both got smoked in the general.
Except Vietnam and the threat of being drafted in a war they didn't believe in was real. The civil rights issues of the time were real. These kids have it good compared to the children of the 60's.
True
Just because something is better than it used to be, doesn't mean it can't be better.
Yup, progress. Something conservatives seem to fight tooth and nail.
Comments
You must watch MSNBC too much as well as Rev. Al Sharpton's daily racist comments against whites and Republicans as a whole.
(See, we can talk smack about your 100% biased news station too)
'13: 10/27 Baltimore
'15: 9/26 New York City
'16: 4/16 Greenville (VS!), 4/26 Lexington, 4/28 Philly, 8/20 Wrigley
'18: 9/02 Fenway
'22: 9/16 Nashville
’24: 8/26 Noblesville, 9/12 Baltimore
And why on earth do you think I watch MSNBC? WTF?
Or that I watch Rev. Al Sharpton? As best I can recall, I have never mentioned anything about Sharpton on AMT.
You want to talk smack about my 100% biased news station? WTF does that mean? What news station would that be?
Why are you making this shit up?
You poor people. I feel for you, seriously. I'm upset about the whole thing and i don't even live there.
http://globalnews.ca/news/2552547/move-to-canada-searches-spike-on-google-during-super-tuesday/
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And yes, I must not understand that Trump is a "racist". Please thoroughly educate me why.
And your question about what news station I'm talking about, is clearly about MSNBC since that's what I clearly said. Pay attention
'13: 10/27 Baltimore
'15: 9/26 New York City
'16: 4/16 Greenville (VS!), 4/26 Lexington, 4/28 Philly, 8/20 Wrigley
'18: 9/02 Fenway
'22: 9/16 Nashville
’24: 8/26 Noblesville, 9/12 Baltimore
And your FACTS!
LIBERAL!!!!!
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
"OoooooHHHHHH CAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNadaaaaaaaaa"
How's that?
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
'13: 10/27 Baltimore
'15: 9/26 New York City
'16: 4/16 Greenville (VS!), 4/26 Lexington, 4/28 Philly, 8/20 Wrigley
'18: 9/02 Fenway
'22: 9/16 Nashville
’24: 8/26 Noblesville, 9/12 Baltimore
And this is where memories of the President’s performance come into play and take on a potency that one might not have understood at the time. For the politics of populist nationalism are almost entirely the politics of felt humiliation—the politics of shame. And one can’t help but suspect that, on that night, Trump’s own sense of public humiliation became so overwhelming that he decided, perhaps at first unconsciously, that he would, somehow, get his own back—perhaps even pursue the Presidency after all, no matter how nihilistically or absurdly, and redeem himself. Though he gave up the hunt for office in that campaign, it does not seem too far-fetched to imagine that the rage—Lukacs’s fear and hatred—implanted in him that night has fuelled him ever since.
http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/trump-and-obama-a-night-to-remember
'13: 10/27 Baltimore
'15: 9/26 New York City
'16: 4/16 Greenville (VS!), 4/26 Lexington, 4/28 Philly, 8/20 Wrigley
'18: 9/02 Fenway
'22: 9/16 Nashville
’24: 8/26 Noblesville, 9/12 Baltimore
'13: 10/27 Baltimore
'15: 9/26 New York City
'16: 4/16 Greenville (VS!), 4/26 Lexington, 4/28 Philly, 8/20 Wrigley
'18: 9/02 Fenway
'22: 9/16 Nashville
’24: 8/26 Noblesville, 9/12 Baltimore
'13: 10/27 Baltimore
'15: 9/26 New York City
'16: 4/16 Greenville (VS!), 4/26 Lexington, 4/28 Philly, 8/20 Wrigley
'18: 9/02 Fenway
'22: 9/16 Nashville
’24: 8/26 Noblesville, 9/12 Baltimore
That could be your problem.
You should clearly understand what a response is, but I guess not.
'13: 10/27 Baltimore
'15: 9/26 New York City
'16: 4/16 Greenville (VS!), 4/26 Lexington, 4/28 Philly, 8/20 Wrigley
'18: 9/02 Fenway
'22: 9/16 Nashville
’24: 8/26 Noblesville, 9/12 Baltimore