America's Gun Violence

dudeman said:

mickeyrat said:

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

So I'm going to go fire some guns at a range in a couple of weeks. I figure I should know what it's like if I'm going to debate against being a gun nut. I am not into it - i feel no curiosity about what it is like to use a deadly weapon at all to be honest - but a friend convinced me I ought to try it if I feel strongly about the subject and want to speak against gun culture. I dunno... it'll be weird and TBH i feel a little guilty fornsome reason. Like I'm helping to propagate the culture. Strange. But it'll be educational, definitely. Know thine enemy, so to speak.

If you look at gun owners as "thine enemy" why even bother going? Gun ownership is a personal decision and if shooting makes you feel uneasy or guilty, don't do it. It's certainly not for everyone.

But its better to learn first hand what some of the appeal may be to form a more knowledgable opinion , isnt it?

I'm against murder but I'm not about to go kill someone just to find out what it's like.

That is not the same thing, and you know it.

dudeman said:

Of course it's not the same thing. It's an exaggerated parallel.

You plan to take something that you feel in your heart is wrong and do it for the sake of the experience.

That's cool with me.

Wow, you are being very dramatic, lol. I'm slightly uncomfortable. This is not a deep moral dilemma. I don't feel in my heart that it's wrong at all. I feel like it might make me in particular hypocritical for even giving my money to a recreational shooting range (and i'm not even sure on that). That is where the guilt lies. Not from it "being wrong". And it's not a big enough deal not to do it. If I "feel in my heart" that something is wrong, I definitely do NOT do it.

callen said:

dudeman said:

callen said:

Gun store incident demonstrates many gun owners mentality.

"Come and Take it"

"Don't tread on Me".

"I Don't call 911 call smith and Wesson".

As to shooting guns, yeah gives many sense of empowerment. Instant gun muscles. Unfortunately it's these exact folks that shouldn't have guns. Oh well the foolishness will continue.

This isn't a representative assessment of me or any of the people I shoot and train with.

So you get no sense of empowerment? None?

Sense of empowerment? No.

I think I've been pretty clear on these boards why I decided to seek proficiency with a firearm.

dudeman said:

PJ_Soul said:

dudeman said:

Of course it's not the same thing. It's an exaggerated parallel.

You plan to take something that you feel in your heart is wrong and do it for the sake of the experience.

That's cool with me.

Wow, you are being very dramatic, lol. I'm slightly uncomfortable. This is not a deep moral dilemma. I don't feel in my heart that it's wrong at all. I feel like it might make me in particular hypocritical for even giving my money to a recreational shooting range (and i'm not even sure on that). That is where the guilt lies. Not from it "being wrong". And it's not a big enough deal not to do it. If I "feel in my heart" that something is wrong, I definitely do NOT do it.

Ok. Awesome. (Sorry for making you feel uncomfortable, BTW.)

Moving on, this is becoming an obstacle to the "Universal Background Check" system that we all pretty much agree would be a good idea and is a step in the right direction:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/01/19/fbi-guns-background-checks/78752774/

Its also why the president took part of the action he did.

Very, very rarely.

http://youtu.be/sJ19_qYPuyM

Just seen this. Thought it would be excellent for schools, offices, or any other application.

No worries. Be safe!

PJ_Soul said:

Whoops. Scratch that gun range idea. I just found out that the ammo is extra and RIDICULOUSLY expensive. No way am I paying $65 extra or whatever (plus $35 for the instruction, entrance, etc) just for enough ammo to make the trip worth it. What a stupid waste of money, lol. My friend is disappointed, but I'm just not into it enough to spend $100. I guess I will indeed go the rest of my life never firing a gun (barring a zombie apocalypse).
So is this a major difference between Canada and the US? How much does ammo actually cost in the US? I know some support raising the prices, so that makes me assume it's super cheap (or at least relatively). Here are the ammo prices at this Canadian gun range. How does that compare to the US (keeping in mind the current exchange rate is fairly irrelevant here - the prices haven't changed recently and the dollar only very recently took a tumble - last year it was about the same in USD)?

U.S. prices are at least half of those prices if not more.

Is it required to purchase ammo from the range? Here or there.

Those prices are a little high but it all depends on the particular ammo.

Generally speaking, full metal jacket (FMJ) loads are intended for practice and shooting paper targets. A box of 50 9mm FMJ's sells for between $11.00 and $16.00 depending on manufacturer and the retailer mark up around here.

Jacketed hollow-point ammo (JHP) is typically designed for hunting and self-defense. It's not uncommon to see 9mm JHP ammo from premium manufacturers sell for between $1.00 and $2.00 per round. It's usually sold in boxes of 20 or 25 rounds.

If one plans to do much shooting, especially enough to generate any real proficiency with a gun, there is a sizable financial commitment.

On the other hand, there are also those of us who load our own ammunition for practice/training purposes. It's a matter of intensive learning, patience and attention paid to the smallest detail so it's not for everyone. The benefit is that one can assemble their own loads for much less money. I developed a 9mm round that has the same trajectory and recoil impulse of expensive, self-defense ammo that costs 12.8 cents per round.