MLB 2025 Season

Cliffy6745 · January 2016

It's a museum

Cliffy6745 · January 2016

Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No

HesCalledDyer · January 2016

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No

1. No, not just a generation. Barry Bonds is the greatest player of all-time.
2. Yes.

pureoc · January 2016

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No

Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.

The Juggler · January 2016

Milton Bradley...not like it needs to be said again, but yep, he is an absolute heaping pile of garbage

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/04/08/milton-bradley-domestic-abuse-mlb-monique-bradley?page=5&devicetype=phone

HesCalledDyer · January 2016

pureoc said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.

Their statistics are 100% legit and were earned by playing within the rules of the league at the time.

Cliffy6745 · January 2016

The Juggler said:
Milton Bradley...not like it needs to be said again, but yep, he is an absolute heaping pile of garbage

http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/04/08/milton-bradley-domestic-abuse-mlb-monique-bradley?page=5&devicetype=phone

You ever read the article on his girlfriend/wife and their relationship? Fucking sickening and she's dead now.

polaris_x · January 2016

HesCalledDyer said:

pureoc said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.
Their statistics are 100% legit and were earned by playing within the rules of the league at the time.

how's that? ... steroids were banned unofficially till they were officially banned in 2005

Amongst the Ani · January 2016

Bonds never officially even popped for steroids. He technically did once on a test he was told was anonymous and would never be used against him or the other players in that survey test. Other than that he never failed a test or was convicted of anything steroid related. Even his one conviction for obstruction has now been thrown out. He is an innocent man damnit.

I'm not stupid but within the rules MLB set he is only suspected of doing them. Much like Piazza who just got in.

polaris_x · January 2016

Ya and Lance Armstrong never failed a doping test either ... or at least one that wasn't covered up for him ...

I'm not sure how he fits within the rules MLB set ... people hanging on to the fact he didn't test positive?

Cliffy6745 · January 2016

http://mlb.nbcsports.com/2016/01/08/former-cardinals-scouting-director-to-be-indicted-for-hacking-the-astros-today/

How is this not the biggest deal ever? How are there not some insane penalties on the Cards?

HesCalledDyer · January 2016

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

pureoc said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.
Their statistics are 100% legit and were earned by playing within the rules of the league at the time.
how's that? ... steroids were banned unofficially till they were officially banned in 2005

In 1990, Congress passed the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, making steroids a Class III substance (same as amphetamines, opium, morphine). As a response, MLB mentioned steroids as part of the illegal drugs/controlled substances memo in 1991. However, there were no standards constituting education, testing, punishment, or even what specific drugs were considered.

I mean, if you can prove that these players were all injecting themselves with anabolic steroids, and thus performing illegally, then I'll eat crow for dinner. The fact is, players used other performance enhancers to circumvent the controlled subtances ban; substances that were not specifically mentioned as being banned and were perfectly legal in the eyes of the sport. And as the home runs were being hit and viewership & attendance were rising, what did MLB do? Turned a blind eye because they were raking in millions. MLB promoted it. They created the monster. Why should the players' accomplishments during that era suffer because of that?

Cliffy6745 · January 2016

HesCalledDyer said:

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

pureoc said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.
Their statistics are 100% legit and were earned by playing within the rules of the league at the time.
how's that? ... steroids were banned unofficially till they were officially banned in 2005
In 1990, Congress passed the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, making steroids a Class III substance (same as amphetamines, opium, morphine). As a response, MLB mentioned steroids as part of the illegal drugs/controlled substances memo in 1991. However, there were no standards constituting education, testing, punishment, or even what specific drugs were considered.

I mean, if you can prove that these players were all injecting themselves with anabolic steroids, and thus performing illegally, then I'll eat crow for dinner. The fact is, players used other performance enhancers to circumvent the controlled subtances ban; substances that were not specifically mentioned as being banned and were perfectly legal in the eyes of the sport. And as the home runs were being hit and viewership & attendance were rising, what did MLB do? Turned a blind eye because they were raking in millions. MLB promoted it. They created the monster. Why should the players' accomplishments during that era suffer because of that?

Yep

polaris_x · January 2016

HesCalledDyer said:

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

pureoc said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.
Their statistics are 100% legit and were earned by playing within the rules of the league at the time.
how's that? ... steroids were banned unofficially till they were officially banned in 2005
In 1990, Congress passed the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, making steroids a Class III substance (same as amphetamines, opium, morphine). As a response, MLB mentioned steroids as part of the illegal drugs/controlled substances memo in 1991. However, there were no standards constituting education, testing, punishment, or even what specific drugs were considered.

I mean, if you can prove that these players were all injecting themselves with anabolic steroids, and thus performing illegally, then I'll eat crow for dinner. The fact is, players used other performance enhancers to circumvent the controlled subtances ban; substances that were not specifically mentioned as being banned and were perfectly legal in the eyes of the sport. And as the home runs were being hit and viewership & attendance were rising, what did MLB do? Turned a blind eye because they were raking in millions. MLB promoted it. They created the monster. Why should the players' accomplishments during that era suffer because of that?

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3884416

don't get me wrong ... i'm not saying the mlb is innocent here ... they are just like every other league in their motivations ...

i do think at the heart of it all - all those guys cheated and they know they cheated ... mcgwire knew he cheated and so did all the others ... if they managed to circumvent rules but did not cheat - why cover it up? ... pro sports is all about trying to circumnavigating rules ...

i also believe that there were players who chose not to cheat ... and denying some of these guys entry into the HOF is, albeit, a token gesture that they did the right thing ... rewarding people who knowingly cheated doesn't seem right to me ...

Cliffy6745 · January 2016

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

pureoc said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.
Their statistics are 100% legit and were earned by playing within the rules of the league at the time.
how's that? ... steroids were banned unofficially till they were officially banned in 2005
In 1990, Congress passed the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, making steroids a Class III substance (same as amphetamines, opium, morphine). As a response, MLB mentioned steroids as part of the illegal drugs/controlled substances memo in 1991. However, there were no standards constituting education, testing, punishment, or even what specific drugs were considered.

I mean, if you can prove that these players were all injecting themselves with anabolic steroids, and thus performing illegally, then I'll eat crow for dinner. The fact is, players used other performance enhancers to circumvent the controlled subtances ban; substances that were not specifically mentioned as being banned and were perfectly legal in the eyes of the sport. And as the home runs were being hit and viewership & attendance were rising, what did MLB do? Turned a blind eye because they were raking in millions. MLB promoted it. They created the monster. Why should the players' accomplishments during that era suffer because of that?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3884416

don't get me wrong ... i'm not saying the mlb is innocent here ... they are just like every other league in their motivations ...

i do think at the heart of it all - all those guys cheated and they know they cheated ... mcgwire knew he cheated and so did all the others ... if they managed to circumvent rules but did not cheat - why cover it up? ... pro sports is all about trying to circumnavigating rules ...

i also believe that there were players who chose not to cheat ... and denying some of these guys entry into the HOF is, albeit, a token gesture that they did the right thing ... rewarding people who knowingly cheated doesn't seem right to me ...

Sounds good. So please provide a list of people who cheated and who didn't. Easy as that.

polaris_x · January 2016

Cliffy6745 said:

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

pureoc said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.
Their statistics are 100% legit and were earned by playing within the rules of the league at the time.
how's that? ... steroids were banned unofficially till they were officially banned in 2005
In 1990, Congress passed the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, making steroids a Class III substance (same as amphetamines, opium, morphine). As a response, MLB mentioned steroids as part of the illegal drugs/controlled substances memo in 1991. However, there were no standards constituting education, testing, punishment, or even what specific drugs were considered.

I mean, if you can prove that these players were all injecting themselves with anabolic steroids, and thus performing illegally, then I'll eat crow for dinner. The fact is, players used other performance enhancers to circumvent the controlled subtances ban; substances that were not specifically mentioned as being banned and were perfectly legal in the eyes of the sport. And as the home runs were being hit and viewership & attendance were rising, what did MLB do? Turned a blind eye because they were raking in millions. MLB promoted it. They created the monster. Why should the players' accomplishments during that era suffer because of that?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3884416

don't get me wrong ... i'm not saying the mlb is innocent here ... they are just like every other league in their motivations ...

i do think at the heart of it all - all those guys cheated and they know they cheated ... mcgwire knew he cheated and so did all the others ... if they managed to circumvent rules but did not cheat - why cover it up? ... pro sports is all about trying to circumnavigating rules ...

i also believe that there were players who chose not to cheat ... and denying some of these guys entry into the HOF is, albeit, a token gesture that they did the right thing ... rewarding people who knowingly cheated doesn't seem right to me ...
Sounds good. So please provide a list of people who cheated and who didn't. Easy as that.

well ... sure ... it's all speculation and for sure some are gonna get through the cracks because they don't have the integrity to admit to cheating ...

but who currently being blacklisted doesn't have some reasonable evidence against them?

Cliffy6745 · January 2016

polaris_x said:

Cliffy6745 said:

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

polaris_x said:

HesCalledDyer said:

pureoc said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
Statistically speaking, yes, but those stats weren't necessarily legit and earned without aid.
Their statistics are 100% legit and were earned by playing within the rules of the league at the time.
how's that? ... steroids were banned unofficially till they were officially banned in 2005
In 1990, Congress passed the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, making steroids a Class III substance (same as amphetamines, opium, morphine). As a response, MLB mentioned steroids as part of the illegal drugs/controlled substances memo in 1991. However, there were no standards constituting education, testing, punishment, or even what specific drugs were considered.

I mean, if you can prove that these players were all injecting themselves with anabolic steroids, and thus performing illegally, then I'll eat crow for dinner. The fact is, players used other performance enhancers to circumvent the controlled subtances ban; substances that were not specifically mentioned as being banned and were perfectly legal in the eyes of the sport. And as the home runs were being hit and viewership & attendance were rising, what did MLB do? Turned a blind eye because they were raking in millions. MLB promoted it. They created the monster. Why should the players' accomplishments during that era suffer because of that?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3884416

don't get me wrong ... i'm not saying the mlb is innocent here ... they are just like every other league in their motivations ...

i do think at the heart of it all - all those guys cheated and they know they cheated ... mcgwire knew he cheated and so did all the others ... if they managed to circumvent rules but did not cheat - why cover it up? ... pro sports is all about trying to circumnavigating rules ...

i also believe that there were players who chose not to cheat ... and denying some of these guys entry into the HOF is, albeit, a token gesture that they did the right thing ... rewarding people who knowingly cheated doesn't seem right to me ...
Sounds good. So please provide a list of people who cheated and who didn't. Easy as that.
well ... sure ... it's all speculation and for sure some are gonna get through the cracks because they don't have the integrity to admit to cheating ...

but who currently being blacklisted doesn't have some reasonable evidence against them?

Cracks? Dude, some speculated that almost 90% of big leaguers were juicing. That is not people slipping through cracks. That is 9 our of 10 players going into the hall from a time period likely cheated, regardless if their name is associated with it or not.

igotid88 · January 2016

Everyone cheated. Even in the 1920s

Wobbie · January 2016

HesCalledDyer said:

Cliffy6745 said:
Is Barry Bonds the best player of a generation? Yes/No

Is Clemens one of the best pitchers of a generation? Yes/No
1. No, not just a generation. Barry Bonds is the greatest player of all-time.
2. Yes.

HesCalledDyer is the man!!

I would not be shocked if, at some point, Griffey Jr. had a little "help." Most think Piazza did. As Cliffy said, the HOF is a museum and IMHO you shouldn't leave out guys who had the impact of Bonds, Clemens, Rose, etc.

Bagwell will probably get in and I'd bet the ranch that he juiced.

Cliffy6745 · January 2016

igotid88 said:
Everyone cheated. Even in the 1920s

Yep

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