Paris Attacks

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  • Posts: 3,959
    edited November 2015

    BS44325 said:

    Yes
    Living in a country that is occupied with a foreign presence walking around with guns will not work.
    We were only in Japan for 6 years after the war, hardly a sustained presence.

  • Posts: 13,576
    mcgruff10 said:

    I think anyone who loves their country puts their own people first. I see nothing wrong with this.
    It is this fractured sort of sentiment that allows war to happen over and over.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Posts: 44,366
    eddiec said:




    Living in a country that is occupied with a foreign presence walking around with guns will not work.
    We were only in Japan for 6 years after the war, hardly a sustained presence.

    Can Canada's military sustain such a mission?
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  • Posts: 13,576
    edited November 2015

    This makes no sense- its an unfair question.

    Not that 'gambling' is the operative term for this situation... would you flip a coin to determine the well being of your child versus another, RG? Does your child hold a special place in your heart?

    I'm assuming from this post that your child holds no more value than any other child. This is why I ask. If I am wrong... you should retract your rather arrogant statement where you challenged another for holding such a selfish position.
    Of course it makes sense. Refusing to accept any refugees makes a virtual certainty that some Syrian lives (children?) that would have been saved will be lost, that refusal, on the chance that some strangers might be killed as a result in this country, is a gamble on Syrian lives.
    That is placing less value on Syrian lives than American lives any way you slice it.

    The business of flipping a coin over my child is the unfair question that lacks sense. In an acute scenario where I have to choose my child over another, of course I won't flip the coin. That has nothing to do with flipping the coin to allow refugee children into this country with the infinitesimally small chance that another refugee will harm my son... I will flip that coin all day long.
    Yes, my own son takes precedence, but strangers sons are all of equal value to me, whatever color and origin they happen to have.
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Here Posts: 4,282
    edited November 2015
    PJ_Soul said:

    Exactly. And also, I said homegrown. That specifically means not refugees by definition. So I suppose it could be used as concern if the person in question is refusing to use basic reasoning skills.
    So I guess if you apply those non reasoning skills you would also say that there would never ever be a refugee to make terror in your country. Great completely naive reasoning. So you blindly trust your government vetting process. I live in the US and don't trust the US government to do its job correctly. Example: Maybe explain to me why the IRS can't stop billions of dollars distributed to fraudulent tax claims, with so many identity theft issues where my local county sheriff dept actually carries tax ID theft forms in the police cars. How do I know... Cause my wife and I were victims. Now what kind of fucking IRS idiot would not red flag the fact that we haven't filed an EZ form in the past 12 years and that we have never direct deposited any refund. We had to prove to them that we didn't file a fraudulent claim. We spent more money to our CPA, more lost time filing forms and waiting in IRS office than worth the measly $350 tax return.
    Plus no one is held to blame for incompetence in government here. There is so much waste in the US government. Just keep throwing tax money into programs that are not working properly, increase more government jobs, spend spend spend. Politicians are corrupt. People are paid off by lobbyists for votes Democratic and Republican alike. So I'm supposed to believe that the US government vetting process will be done the way they say it will, even if on paper it looks like overkill. Give me a fucking break.
    Plus I never said that I wouldn't take refugees because of humanitarian issues. Take them all in Canada if you believe so strongly about it.
    Post edited by PP193448 on
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville
  • Posts: 3,959
    PP193448 said:

    So I guess if you apply those non reasoning skills you would also say that there would never ever be a refugee to make terror in your country. Great completely naive reasoning. So you blindly trust your government vetting process. I live in the US and don't trust the US government to do its job correctly. Example: Maybe explain to me why the IRS can't stop billions of dollars distributed to fraudulent tax claims, with so many identity theft issues where my local county sheriff dept actually carries tax ID theft forms in the police cars. How do I know... Cause my wife and I were victims. Now what kind of fucking IRS idiot would not red flag the fact that we haven't filed an EZ form in the past 12 years and that we have never direct deposited any refund. We had to prove to them that we didn't file a fraudulent claim. We spent more money to our CPA, more lost time filing forms and waiting in IRS office than worth the measly $350 tax return.
    Plus no one is held to blame for incompetence in government here. There is so much waste in the US government. Just keep throwing tax money into programs that are not working properly, increase more government jobs, spend spend spend. Politicians are corrupt. People are paid off by lobbyists for votes Democratic and Republican alike. So I'm supposed to believe that the US government vetting process will be done the way they say it will, even if on paper it looks like overkill. Give me a fucking break.
    Plus I never said that I wouldn't take refugees because of humanitarian issues. Take them all in Canada if you believe so strongly about it.
    But at this moment in time there hasn't been a flaw in the vetting process and 35% of our refugees last year came from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. Should we stop taking those refugees as well? Loads of terrorists in those countries last time I checked.

  • Posts: 44,366
    post just because . Didnt like where we were on the comment count/
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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Posts: 6,124
    edited November 2015
    BS44325 said:

    Yes
    Living in a country that is occupied with a foreign presence walking around with guns will not work.
    We were only in Japan for 6 years after the war, hardly a sustained presence.



    You are aware that the US currently has approximately 23 military bases in Japan right now?
    Post edited by BS44325 on
  • Posts: 6,124
    This article should be read in full by anyone who wants a real in depth look at the current crisis.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-crisis-of-world-order-1448052095

    The author isn't Canadian so maybe it won't offend you to read it.
  • Posts: 3,959
    edited November 2015
    BS44325 said:



    You are aware that the US currently has approximately 23 military bases in Japan right now?
    And we had one in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis. So what?
    Are you implying that we have bases there in case Japan wants to attack again?

    Post edited by eddiec on
  • Here Posts: 4,282
    eddiec said:

    But at this moment in time there hasn't been a flaw in the vetting process and 35% of our refugees last year came from Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. Should we stop taking those refugees as well? Loads of terrorists in those countries last time I checked.

    Great. So far so good over 1 year then. Maybe it takes little longer to plan multi site terrorist attacks. Maybe it's mass hysteria and not one refugee will ever be connected to any terrorist plot. I'm not saying that I think it's not the right thing to do. All I'm saying is that I don't trust the US government to not cut corners and hold people responsible for errors.
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville
  • rgambs said:

    Of course it makes sense. Refusing to accept any refugees makes a virtual certainty that some Syrian lives (children?) that would have been saved will be lost, that refusal, on the chance that some strangers might be killed as a result in this country, is a gamble on Syrian lives.
    That is placing less value on Syrian lives than American lives any way you slice it.

    The business of flipping a coin over my child is the unfair question that lacks sense. In an acute scenario where I have to choose my child over another, of course I won't flip the coin. That has nothing to do with flipping the coin to allow refugee children into this country with the infinitesimally small chance that another refugee will harm my son... I will flip that coin all day long.
    Yes, my own son takes precedence, but strangers sons are all of equal value to me, whatever color and origin they happen to have.
    So you and McScruffy feel the same- instinctually protective of your own versus another: you in more 'acute' scenarios... him in more 'broader' scenarios.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Posts: 9,478

    So you and McScruffy feel the same- instinctually protective of your own versus another: you in more 'acute' scenarios... him in more 'broader' scenarios.
    I shouldn't even have to tell you how ridiculous this argument is.
  • dignin said:


    I shouldn't even have to tell you how ridiculous this argument is.
    You probably don't understand what's being said, Dig.

    In the event you don't... I'm just speaking to the slight hypocrisy in RG's rather pompous post that made Scruffy out to be an asshole.

    Lately... any counter position to the Liberal left free flow is met with scorn and disdain. I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with the sentiments behind what is being expressed from the aforementioned... I'm more saying I disagree with the lack of efforts to understand and acknowledge the varying perspectives.

    Who's right in this discussion? I feel it is the side advocating for meaningful assistance, but I'm not so arrogant to think that any position to the contrary is completely out to lunch (excluding the extreme nonsense that pokes its head out periodically- which Scruffy's wasn't).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Posts: 9,478
    This is the most detailed account I have read about the attack on the Bataclan.

    http://bigstory.ap.org/article/abf1356f6b9743518a302da14fbf44eb/horror-panic-heroism-bataclan-nexus-paris-attacks
  • Posts: 13,576

    So you and McScruffy feel the same- instinctually protective of your own versus another: you in more 'acute' scenarios... him in more 'broader' scenarios.
    That's a fair assessment, but I think the distinction you made makes all the difference. We are talking about lives hanging in the balance, denying all refugees entry will surely cause death and massive suffering of them, letting them in might cause death and suffering for us.
    The risk to us is a risk that many are willing to take, and many others are not willing to risk American lives but they don't seem to have a problem with the inevitabilcity of suffering among Syrians.
    I think it's fair to point out this is inherently placing less value on foreign lives, especially since most of the people I have seen expressing this sentiment don't seem to have thought it through to it's conclusion.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    rgambs said:

    That's a fair assessment, but I think the distinction you made makes all the difference. We are talking about lives hanging in the balance, denying all refugees entry will surely cause death and massive suffering of them, letting them in might cause death and suffering for us.
    The risk to us is a risk that many are willing to take, and many others are not willing to risk American lives but they don't seem to have a problem with the inevitabilcity of suffering among Syrians.
    I think it's fair to point out this is inherently placing less value on foreign lives, especially since most of the people I have seen expressing this sentiment don't seem to have thought it through to it's conclusion.
    How exactly are Syrian refugees suffering or dying If they are settling in another country that is willing to take them in?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Posts: 44,366
    mcgruff10 said:

    How exactly are Syrian refugees suffering or dying If they are settling in another country that is willing to take them in?
    Lets see..2 million in Turkey , where the pool of people are we are begining the process of vetting for resettlement.

    Est 3 million more on the move mostly to Europe. Another est 7 million more internally displaced within Syria.

    So considering those in Turkey where they have been under armed guard for quite some time for settlement seems dangerous?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14

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