MLB 2025 Season

It was almost universal 35 years ago. You bet your ass the teams would go for this pretty much immediately if it was a point for the players union. No reason for them not too.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/27/reminder-the-reason-the-dh-isnt-universal-is-because-the-phillies-screwed-up-the-vote/

And how many CBA's have been signed since then with the DH not being implemented or even seriously looked at for the NL? It won't go away for a long time. And yes I do want managers to help win or lose a game. That is why they get paid big bucks. With the standardization of bullpens AL managers don't really do anything. I go to my 7th inning guy in this situation, 8th inning guy and so on. Give me Bochy and his double switches everyday of the week. Give me a loaded bullpen and a decent bench. That is better than stupid AL ball where the same 9 guys play all 9 innings. I love 2-1 games like last nights Giants game where every pitch and decision counts.

cdysinge said:

And how many CBA's have been signed since then with the DH not being implemented or even seriously looked at for the NL? It won't go away for a long time. And yes I do want managers to help win or lose a game. That is why they get paid big bucks. With the standardization of bullpens AL managers don't really do anything. I go to my 7th inning guy in this situation, 8th inning guy and so on. Give me Bochy and his double switches everyday of the week. Give me a loaded bullpen and a decent bench. That is better than stupid AL ball where the same 9 guys play all 9 innings. I love 2-1 games like last nights Giants game where every pitch and decision counts.

Clearly you don't watch much AL baseball. While obviously there is more strategy involved with the NL with pitchers batting and double switches, etc.., it's not like AL managers just sit there scratching their balls every night. Joe Maddon was considered one of the best managers in baseball while he was with Tampa Bay....and he did it with a DH! Oh my!

Indifference71 said:

cdysinge said:

And how many CBA's have been signed since then with the DH not being implemented or even seriously looked at for the NL? It won't go away for a long time. And yes I do want managers to help win or lose a game. That is why they get paid big bucks. With the standardization of bullpens AL managers don't really do anything. I go to my 7th inning guy in this situation, 8th inning guy and so on. Give me Bochy and his double switches everyday of the week. Give me a loaded bullpen and a decent bench. That is better than stupid AL ball where the same 9 guys play all 9 innings. I love 2-1 games like last nights Giants game where every pitch and decision counts.

Clearly you don't watch much AL baseball. While obviously there is more strategy involved with the NL with pitchers batting and double switches, etc.., it's not like AL managers just sit there scratching their balls every night. Joe Maddon was considered one of the best managers in baseball while he was with Tampa Bay....and he did it with a DH! Oh my!

Madden was one of the best because he got the most out of who he had. Once the game started he sat there scratching his balls unless he had to pick up the phone and call the bullpen when 95% of the fans watching could tell you who was coming in to replace the starter. Provided no injuries what else did he do in game? You might get a late game switch because a certain reliever came in, but all that is predetermined for the most part. Certain guys platoon and others do not. A computer could manage an AL game as there is no art to it.

cdysinge said:

Indifference71 said:

cdysinge said:

And how many CBA's have been signed since then with the DH not being implemented or even seriously looked at for the NL? It won't go away for a long time. And yes I do want managers to help win or lose a game. That is why they get paid big bucks. With the standardization of bullpens AL managers don't really do anything. I go to my 7th inning guy in this situation, 8th inning guy and so on. Give me Bochy and his double switches everyday of the week. Give me a loaded bullpen and a decent bench. That is better than stupid AL ball where the same 9 guys play all 9 innings. I love 2-1 games like last nights Giants game where every pitch and decision counts.

Clearly you don't watch much AL baseball. While obviously there is more strategy involved with the NL with pitchers batting and double switches, etc.., it's not like AL managers just sit there scratching their balls every night. Joe Maddon was considered one of the best managers in baseball while he was with Tampa Bay....and he did it with a DH! Oh my!

Madden was one of the best because he got the most out of who he had. Once the game started he sat there scratching his balls unless he had to pick up the phone and call the bullpen when 95% of the fans watching could tell you who was coming in to replace the starter. Provided no injuries what else did he do in game? You might get a late game switch because a certain reliever came in, but all that is predetermined for the most part. Certain guys platoon and others do not. A computer could manage an AL game as there is no art to it.

OK, well there's obviously no point in arguing with you about this since you think a computer can manage an AL team. Just an absolutely ridiculous statement.

Is it really absurd a computer couldn't manage an AL game. This was data I found online:

There were 2,016 American League vs. American League games in 2011 and only 840 pinch hitters used. The term "used" is meant in its broadest sense, to include those pinch hitters who were announced, but then called back for another pinch hitter before getting an official plate appearance. That happened four times.

Next, we'll look at National League vs. National League games. There were 2,338 such games in 2011 and 3,938 pinch hitters used, or roughly 1.7 pinch hitters per game. Obviously, without the designated hitter, National League managers rely on pinch hitters considerably more than their American League counterparts. They also announce, and then pull back, pinch hitters more frequently than American League managers; they did it 51 times in 2011. Lefty, righty, lefty, righty,

So AL clubs only send up a pinch hitter in one out overy 2 1/2 games versus almost 2 per game in the NL. Once again, what do AL managers actually do once the game starts? It isn't looking at match ups or trying to get the right guy up at the right time.

Last-12-Exit said:

Cliffy6745 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I remember that story. But that doesn't mean they would vote for it today. That was the best fishing trip anyone ever made. Thank god there wasn't cell phones back then. I hate to bust your bubble, but the NL isn't going to implement the DH.

Mad bum, Harvey, Lester, Teheran, and Kershaw could all tear their Achilles while batting on the same night and they still wouldn't vote for the DH.

I think you are very very wrong.

Baseball decisions are based on money, right?

What money is there to be made off of pitchers batting?

What money is there to be made off the DH?

So where's the money in the DH? There's only about 4 or 5 great DH's in the history of the game. And great is stretching it. Zero in the Hall of fame. I'm not sure where all of this money is to be made.

Um, Ortiz makes $15+ million a year, Pujols will be a $25 million DH, Arod is a $23 million DH. That is a lot of money to be made, not only from players, but agents, marketing, etc. Not that sponsors will have a direct say, but I am pretty sure the league cares about that kind of stuff.

Also, not to harp on injuries, and while sure, Wainwright could have gotten hurt any other way, he got hurt batting, you don't think it hurts the Cards playoff chances by losing him for the year? Again, the potential for less money

Since this is no longer justification of the DH but talking about whether it will happen, if the players union pushed for this, what incentive would baseball (owners) have for not accepting it? Sure they could give them a hard time to get something they want, but there is no incentive for it not to happen.

It is going to happen. I would guess in the pretty near future. If not this CBA, then the next for sure. The MLBPA is also by far the strongest union in any sport. This would be a slam dunk if they want it. There is no fight from baseball to be had.

cdysinge said:

Is it really absurd a computer couldn't manage an AL game. This was data I found online:

There were 2,016 American League vs. American League games in 2011 and only 840 pinch hitters used. The term "used" is meant in its broadest sense, to include those pinch hitters who were announced, but then called back for another pinch hitter before getting an official plate appearance. That happened four times.

Next, we'll look at National League vs. National League games. There were 2,338 such games in 2011 and 3,938 pinch hitters used, or roughly 1.7 pinch hitters per game. Obviously, without the designated hitter, National League managers rely on pinch hitters considerably more than their American League counterparts. They also announce, and then pull back, pinch hitters more frequently than American League managers; they did it 51 times in 2011. Lefty, righty, lefty, righty,

So AL clubs only send up a pinch hitter in one out overy 2 1/2 games versus almost 2 per game in the NL. Once again, what do AL managers actually do once the game starts? It isn't looking at match ups or trying to get the right guy up at the right time.

pretty big disparity there between NL and AL pinch hitters and pretty much proves my point about the value of a FULL roster in the NL compared to the AL.