Iran Deal, the reset..... and halt

BS44325 · April 2015

Halifax2TheMax said:
So you're advocating for the re-invasion of Iraq?

I'm advocating for victory which might require a re-invasion of Iraq to surge levels. The surge was a success, the coalition can do it again and restore the peace to 2009-10 levels.

I am not advocating for the invasion or even the bombing of Iran. I said this earlier but apparently all of your reading skills are below poor. With respect to Iran I would end current negotiations as the Iranians have refused to move close enough to our desired position on non-proliferation. I would tighten international sanctions on anyone who does business or banks with the regime. I would make any Iranian militia present in Iraq, Yemen and possibly Syria fair game for attack. I would institute a massive naval blockade on Iran in order to make sure they don't receive or deliver any military supplies. I would fund and support the internal green movement in any way possible. I would do this all vocally and unapologetically as we (the west) represent what is good and their regime does not. Anyone who tries to equate the evils of our societies is not just wrong but is also a fool. With this kind of pressure we will hopefully encourage the internal Iranian opposition to force out the Mullahs.

In exchange for our pressure on Iran the Sunni states will have to crush the radicals among them be it ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. and will have to be prepared to accept a future with a large moderate and strong Shia presence in the region.

As far as Palestine is concerned I would support the Palestinian Authority in everyway possible while aligning with Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Jordan etc in ending Hamas. Israel will be brought to the table and will be forced to make concessions following the defeat of Hamas. The PA wants a free Palestine and the end of Hamas. We will help them achieve both.

This is leadership. It will cost us plenty in both money and blood. The alternative is further regional collapse, genocide, terrorism and probably nuclear war. We are in for dark days no matter what. Shouldn't we at least try to control them?

badbrains · April 2015

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Jason P said:
And the theory of exceptionalism doesn't apply to Iran? A country that despises Western culture and influence and see themselves as superior?

Iran, according to wiki, Last Week with Jon Oliver, and other esteemed news sources chants "Death to America" after weekly Friday prayers (T.G.I.F!) and other public events. They have been doing this on a regular basis for all of my life.

So while we have a pity party over how we Americans are oppressive fucks, do any of us really think Iran would sign and agree to any deal outside of us bowing for forgiveness while lifting all sanctions and promising to send them a bunch of Doritos and dip as repercussions? Do you really think we will be smoking peace pipes and chanting kumbaya if an agreement is signed?

Iran's hard liners make the neocons look like a bunch of Girl Scouts.
No, it doesn't. They don't despise western culture. Some conservatives in their clerical leadership might despise western culture just as some conservatives here would like to, "take their country back." Iran has one of the youngest demographics in the developing world. A younger generation hungry for western pop cultural and increased ties and relations with the west. The aging clerics realize they need the economy back and they need to appeal to and satisfy their up and coming generation. Otherwise, they're going to have major domestic unrest. Have you ever met anyone from Iran? Had a conversation with them? Been to Iran or spoken with someone who has traveled there? Iranians don't hate the US. The average Iranian would like for nothing more than to have peace between our countries and decent relations. These are the folks Obama is trying to appeal to and having a 10 year framework to appeal further and build mutual trust is what he's trying to accomplish. As BB pointed out, after we fucked them from 1954-1979, is it any wonder government directed elements parade around chanting death to America? I don't know where Iran is heavily influencing culture or trying to strong arm nations into a similar governing systems nor do I see them acting superior. Superior where and to who? Very unlike this country. News alert, not everyone wants to live under a western democratic capitalist system.

Nixon went to China, Reagan met with Gorbachev, Clinton opened relations with Vietnam and sent former Senator Mitchell to Ireland. All of these were much more preferable than "bombing", "going to war" or being isolationist. Difficult work ahead? Sure. Impossible? No. Going to war is easy and a sign of weakness and should be considered only as a last resort. You have to start somewhere and as john Lennon once said, "give peace a chance." Something I'm willing to try before embarking on another war of choice.

And how do you describe John Bolton who wrote an op-ed published in the NYT calling for the bombing of Iran because, "it's the only thing they understand?" Or McCain singing bomb, bomb, bomb Iran? Or, well the Bush administration that invaded Iraq, killing 4000+ Americans and upwards of a million Iraqis? Girl Scouts? Hardly.

And my guess on BS, he's heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks. Turn off the war drums and wait to see what happens around June 30th when the details of the framework agreement are supposed to be codified into a substantive agreement that both sides take back to their governments for approval.
Ha! I'm heavily invested in oil and defense industry stocks now? Yesterday I was a lobbyist/agent of Israel? The inability for some of you to hear an alternate opinion is staggering. Alternative music...good. Alternative opinion...bad.
Sorry my bad. You're heavily invested in Canadian oil sands perhaps? I mean all you have to do is look at who's beating the war drums and compare to who benefits, financially. Follow the money.
Nope. I am not invested in the oil sands either. Try again.
You're just a sick individual obsessed with bombing iran. Must really suck to live with that kind of sickness.
My life is pretty awesome actually
I could careless, how about letting other people have awesome lives without the threat of bombing them?
You care tons. You can't quit me. I am the first thing you think about when you wake up in the morning and the last thing you think about when you go to bed at night. Now as far as the Iranians go...I want them to have awesome lives. I would like to see their green revolution realized. I would like to see them have full rights. I would like to see their women be liberated. I would like to see their LGBT community not be hung from lamposts. They are good people trapped under a religious tyranny. It's a shame that you have abandoned them.
And we'd all like those rights for the Palestinians, well, all of us EXCEPT you.

As for Iran, don't sit here and pretend you care about them because even a fucken IDIOT knows you can't give them everything you want to give them by bombing them. But your an idiot cut from a diff cloth.

Let ask you a question since you want to play superman to the Iranians and save the day. Are you gonna go and save the Palestinians when you're done with Iran? I mean they've been under occupation for over 60 years. Your bombs gonna go and liberate them from Israeli control? I didn't think so. Sad state of affairs when we have idiots advocating more war. But I and everyone else knows why you're so gung-hu about dropping bombs on Iran. Wish you had the balls to admit it. But then again, people who advocate for sending people to do their fighting for them have NO BALLS.

As for me, I got shit to do today so I won't be obsessing about some dickhead war monger. I'm actually going to msg to see the Rangers/pens playoff game. Something you leaf fans in Toronto have no idea about.
Raptors are playing Washington right now. We're a basketball town.

I thought you lived in a village.

badbrains · April 2015

And BS, you're full of shit. You've advocated bombing Iran numerous times. Don't try to backtrack now that you're an army of 1.

BS44325 · April 2015

badbrains said:
And BS, you're full of shit. You've advocated bombing Iran numerous times. Don't try to backtrack now that you're an army of 1.

Please quote the post where I did that.

badbrains · April 2015

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:
And BS, you're full of shit. You've advocated bombing Iran numerous times. Don't try to backtrack now that you're an army of 1.
Please quote the post where I did that.

Too busy, going to msg to watch a playoff hockey game. And you most def have been advocating a war with Iran.

BS44325 · April 2015

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:
And BS, you're full of shit. You've advocated bombing Iran numerous times. Don't try to backtrack now that you're an army of 1.
Please quote the post where I did that.
Too busy, going to msg to watch a playoff hockey game. And you most def have been advocating a war with Iran.

Ha. Nope. You'll never find a post of me saying any different then above. Enjoy the game.

Halifax2TheMax · April 2015

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
So you're advocating for the re-invasion of Iraq?
I'm advocating for victory which might require a re-invasion of Iraq to surge levels. The surge was a success, the coalition can do it again and restore the peace to 2009-10 levels.

I am not advocating for the invasion or even the bombing of Iran. I said this earlier but apparently all of your reading skills are below poor. With respect to Iran I would end current negotiations as the Iranians have refused to move close enough to our desired position on non-proliferation. I would tighten international sanctions on anyone who does business or banks with the regime. I would make any Iranian militia present in Iraq, Yemen and possibly Syria fair game for attack. I would institute a massive naval blockade on Iran in order to make sure they don't receive or deliver any military supplies. I would fund and support the internal green movement in any way possible. I would do this all vocally and unapologetically as we (the west) represent what is good and their regime does not. Anyone who tries to equate the evils of our societies is not just wrong but is also a fool. With this kind of pressure we will hopefully encourage the internal Iranian opposition to force out the Mullahs.

In exchange for our pressure on Iran the Sunni states will have to crush the radicals among them be it ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. and will have to be prepared to accept a future with a large moderate and strong Shia presence in the region.

As far as Palestine is concerned I would support the Palestinian Authority in everyway possible while aligning with Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Jordan etc in ending Hamas. Israel will be brought to the table and will be forced to make concessions following the defeat of Hamas. The PA wants a free Palestine and the end of Hamas. We will help them achieve both.

This is leadership. It will cost us plenty in both money and blood. The alternative is further regional collapse, genocide, terrorism and probably nuclear war. We are in for dark days no matter what. Shouldn't we at least try to control them?

Let me know when Canada carries out your fantasy. You might want to look at a map as the last time I checked, Iran wasn't an island.

BS44325 · April 2015

Halifax2TheMax said:

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
So you're advocating for the re-invasion of Iraq?
I'm advocating for victory which might require a re-invasion of Iraq to surge levels. The surge was a success, the coalition can do it again and restore the peace to 2009-10 levels.

I am not advocating for the invasion or even the bombing of Iran. I said this earlier but apparently all of your reading skills are below poor. With respect to Iran I would end current negotiations as the Iranians have refused to move close enough to our desired position on non-proliferation. I would tighten international sanctions on anyone who does business or banks with the regime. I would make any Iranian militia present in Iraq, Yemen and possibly Syria fair game for attack. I would institute a massive naval blockade on Iran in order to make sure they don't receive or deliver any military supplies. I would fund and support the internal green movement in any way possible. I would do this all vocally and unapologetically as we (the west) represent what is good and their regime does not. Anyone who tries to equate the evils of our societies is not just wrong but is also a fool. With this kind of pressure we will hopefully encourage the internal Iranian opposition to force out the Mullahs.

In exchange for our pressure on Iran the Sunni states will have to crush the radicals among them be it ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. and will have to be prepared to accept a future with a large moderate and strong Shia presence in the region.

As far as Palestine is concerned I would support the Palestinian Authority in everyway possible while aligning with Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Jordan etc in ending Hamas. Israel will be brought to the table and will be forced to make concessions following the defeat of Hamas. The PA wants a free Palestine and the end of Hamas. We will help them achieve both.

This is leadership. It will cost us plenty in both money and blood. The alternative is further regional collapse, genocide, terrorism and probably nuclear war. We are in for dark days no matter what. Shouldn't we at least try to control them?
Let me know when Canada carries out your fantasy. You might want to look at a map as the last time I checked, Iran wasn't an island.

Let's see...if we have troops in Iraq and troops in afganistan then we only really need to worry about the arabian sea where most of their trade is conducted. They are likely not to be re-supplied through Pakistan and/or Turkey. The caspian sea could be problematic but that would depend on Russia.

So...

Halifax2TheMax · April 2015

What are you smoking?

mickeyrat · April 2015

maybe once Canada can take the lead then. send the bulk of your military and we will lend logostics support while sending a token group of ground troops. Hows that?

BS44325 · April 2015

Halifax2TheMax said:
What are you smoking?

Freedom

badbrains · April 2015

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:
And BS, you're full of shit. You've advocated bombing Iran numerous times. Don't try to backtrack now that you're an army of 1.
Please quote the post where I did that.
Too busy, going to msg to watch a playoff hockey game. And you most def have been advocating a war with Iran.
Ha. Nope. You'll never find a post of me saying any different then above. Enjoy the game.

Am I the only one who's seen selective amnesia advocate for war with Iran? I've seen others reply as if he's been advocating it. Now that selective amnesia has ZERO support and looks like the only idiot advocating for war, he seems to be changing his tune.

BS44325 · April 2015

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:

BS44325 said:

badbrains said:
And BS, you're full of shit. You've advocated bombing Iran numerous times. Don't try to backtrack now that you're an army of 1.
Please quote the post where I did that.
Too busy, going to msg to watch a playoff hockey game. And you most def have been advocating a war with Iran.
Ha. Nope. You'll never find a post of me saying any different then above. Enjoy the game.
Am I the only one who's seen selective amnesia advocate for war with Iran? I've seen others reply as if he's been advocating it. Now that selective amnesia has ZERO support and looks like the only idiot advocating for war, he seems to be changing his tune.

My position has always been the same. You just have never been good in the reading comprehension department. I try to write short sentences for you on purpose but it never seems to help. Like I said...please find the post where I advocate for bombing Iran. Don't look at what other people suggest I said but look at my actual words. Take your time. I'll wait.

rgambs · April 2015

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
So you're advocating for the re-invasion of Iraq?
I'm advocating for victory which might require a re-invasion of Iraq to surge levels. The surge was a success, the coalition can do it again and restore the peace to 2009-10 levels.

I am not advocating for the invasion or even the bombing of Iran. I said this earlier but apparently all of your reading skills are below poor. With respect to Iran I would end current negotiations as the Iranians have refused to move close enough to our desired position on non-proliferation. I would tighten international sanctions on anyone who does business or banks with the regime. I would make any Iranian militia present in Iraq, Yemen and possibly Syria fair game for attack. I would institute a massive naval blockade on Iran in order to make sure they don't receive or deliver any military supplies. I would fund and support the internal green movement in any way possible. I would do this all vocally and unapologetically as we (the west) represent what is good and their regime does not. Anyone who tries to equate the evils of our societies is not just wrong but is also a fool. With this kind of pressure we will hopefully encourage the internal Iranian opposition to force out the Mullahs.

In exchange for our pressure on Iran the Sunni states will have to crush the radicals among them be it ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. and will have to be prepared to accept a future with a large moderate and strong Shia presence in the region.

As far as Palestine is concerned I would support the Palestinian Authority in everyway possible while aligning with Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Jordan etc in ending Hamas. Israel will be brought to the table and will be forced to make concessions following the defeat of Hamas. The PA wants a free Palestine and the end of Hamas. We will help them achieve both.

This is leadership. It will cost us plenty in both money and blood. The alternative is further regional collapse, genocide, terrorism and probably nuclear war. We are in for dark days no matter what. Shouldn't we at least try to control them?

With all your doom and gloom about them getting the bomb, you present a plan which enables them to acquire the bomb YEARS sooner than under the provisional plan in works by P5+1...
Que Homer Simpson: DOH!

BS44325 · April 2015

rgambs said:

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
So you're advocating for the re-invasion of Iraq?
I'm advocating for victory which might require a re-invasion of Iraq to surge levels. The surge was a success, the coalition can do it again and restore the peace to 2009-10 levels.

I am not advocating for the invasion or even the bombing of Iran. I said this earlier but apparently all of your reading skills are below poor. With respect to Iran I would end current negotiations as the Iranians have refused to move close enough to our desired position on non-proliferation. I would tighten international sanctions on anyone who does business or banks with the regime. I would make any Iranian militia present in Iraq, Yemen and possibly Syria fair game for attack. I would institute a massive naval blockade on Iran in order to make sure they don't receive or deliver any military supplies. I would fund and support the internal green movement in any way possible. I would do this all vocally and unapologetically as we (the west) represent what is good and their regime does not. Anyone who tries to equate the evils of our societies is not just wrong but is also a fool. With this kind of pressure we will hopefully encourage the internal Iranian opposition to force out the Mullahs.

In exchange for our pressure on Iran the Sunni states will have to crush the radicals among them be it ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. and will have to be prepared to accept a future with a large moderate and strong Shia presence in the region.

As far as Palestine is concerned I would support the Palestinian Authority in everyway possible while aligning with Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Jordan etc in ending Hamas. Israel will be brought to the table and will be forced to make concessions following the defeat of Hamas. The PA wants a free Palestine and the end of Hamas. We will help them achieve both.

This is leadership. It will cost us plenty in both money and blood. The alternative is further regional collapse, genocide, terrorism and probably nuclear war. We are in for dark days no matter what. Shouldn't we at least try to control them?
With all your doom and gloom about them getting the bomb, you present a plan which enables them to acquire the bomb YEARS sooner than under the provisional plan in works by P5+1...
Que Homer Simpson: DOH!

No. You have it backwards. The "provisional plan" according to the Obama adminsitration maintains sanctions and requires inspections. Yet this "plan" has been rejected by Iran. Obama is now talking about "creatively" getting around sanctions. Anything that eases sanctions brings Iran closer to being a nuclear power. The "plan" as it stands allows Iran to speed up research and development under global protection. This isn't the Simpsons and it is not the Springfield Nuclear power plant...this is real life.

rgambs · April 2015

BS44325 said:

rgambs said:

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
So you're advocating for the re-invasion of Iraq?
I'm advocating for victory which might require a re-invasion of Iraq to surge levels. The surge was a success, the coalition can do it again and restore the peace to 2009-10 levels.

I am not advocating for the invasion or even the bombing of Iran. I said this earlier but apparently all of your reading skills are below poor. With respect to Iran I would end current negotiations as the Iranians have refused to move close enough to our desired position on non-proliferation. I would tighten international sanctions on anyone who does business or banks with the regime. I would make any Iranian militia present in Iraq, Yemen and possibly Syria fair game for attack. I would institute a massive naval blockade on Iran in order to make sure they don't receive or deliver any military supplies. I would fund and support the internal green movement in any way possible. I would do this all vocally and unapologetically as we (the west) represent what is good and their regime does not. Anyone who tries to equate the evils of our societies is not just wrong but is also a fool. With this kind of pressure we will hopefully encourage the internal Iranian opposition to force out the Mullahs.

In exchange for our pressure on Iran the Sunni states will have to crush the radicals among them be it ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. and will have to be prepared to accept a future with a large moderate and strong Shia presence in the region.

As far as Palestine is concerned I would support the Palestinian Authority in everyway possible while aligning with Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Jordan etc in ending Hamas. Israel will be brought to the table and will be forced to make concessions following the defeat of Hamas. The PA wants a free Palestine and the end of Hamas. We will help them achieve both.

This is leadership. It will cost us plenty in both money and blood. The alternative is further regional collapse, genocide, terrorism and probably nuclear war. We are in for dark days no matter what. Shouldn't we at least try to control them?
With all your doom and gloom about them getting the bomb, you present a plan which enables them to acquire the bomb YEARS sooner than under the provisional plan in works by P5+1...
Que Homer Simpson: DOH!
No. You have it backwards. The "provisional plan" according to the Obama adminsitration maintains sanctions and requires inspections. Yet this "plan" has been rejected by Iran. Obama is now talking about "creatively" getting around sanctions. Anything that eases sanctions brings Iran closer to being a nuclear power.,The "plan" as it stands allows Iran to speed up research and development under global protection. This isn't the Simpsons and it is not the Springfield Nuclear power plant...this is real life.

That is just plain old wrong. It is factually innacurate and it completely ignores the currently estimated breakout time UNDER SANCTIONS.

rr165892 · April 2015

Jesus Gambs,how do you have time to post?Shouldnt you be teaching SG how to climb or something?The new babe thing not taking up enough of your time?lol

rgambs · April 2015

rr165892 said:
Jesus Gambs,how do you have time to post?Shouldnt you be teaching SG how to climb or something?The new babe thing not taking up enough of your time?lol

Hahahha he's not a strong climber yet!! Mamabear is napping and so is the cub, I tilled the garden and now I am kicked back playing the part of the crib... Cool breeze, quiet Beatles playing... Life could be worse lol
https://fbcdn-photos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-0/11149304_1573682986252629_5062389388135164322_n.jpg?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=8389195f27ad9c567abb2a6cc7e3bfec&oe=5597EF1F&__gda__=1436811668_666157b7afc05655447f87ceaffb0b11

hedonist · April 2015

Your boy has got some long legs there!

Sounds like a sweet moment, gambo. May they be plentiful.

BS44325 · April 2015

rgambs said:

BS44325 said:

rgambs said:

BS44325 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:
So you're advocating for the re-invasion of Iraq?
I'm advocating for victory which might require a re-invasion of Iraq to surge levels. The surge was a success, the coalition can do it again and restore the peace to 2009-10 levels.

I am not advocating for the invasion or even the bombing of Iran. I said this earlier but apparently all of your reading skills are below poor. With respect to Iran I would end current negotiations as the Iranians have refused to move close enough to our desired position on non-proliferation. I would tighten international sanctions on anyone who does business or banks with the regime. I would make any Iranian militia present in Iraq, Yemen and possibly Syria fair game for attack. I would institute a massive naval blockade on Iran in order to make sure they don't receive or deliver any military supplies. I would fund and support the internal green movement in any way possible. I would do this all vocally and unapologetically as we (the west) represent what is good and their regime does not. Anyone who tries to equate the evils of our societies is not just wrong but is also a fool. With this kind of pressure we will hopefully encourage the internal Iranian opposition to force out the Mullahs.

In exchange for our pressure on Iran the Sunni states will have to crush the radicals among them be it ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. and will have to be prepared to accept a future with a large moderate and strong Shia presence in the region.

As far as Palestine is concerned I would support the Palestinian Authority in everyway possible while aligning with Egypt, Saudia Arabia, Jordan etc in ending Hamas. Israel will be brought to the table and will be forced to make concessions following the defeat of Hamas. The PA wants a free Palestine and the end of Hamas. We will help them achieve both.

This is leadership. It will cost us plenty in both money and blood. The alternative is further regional collapse, genocide, terrorism and probably nuclear war. We are in for dark days no matter what. Shouldn't we at least try to control them?
With all your doom and gloom about them getting the bomb, you present a plan which enables them to acquire the bomb YEARS sooner than under the provisional plan in works by P5+1...
Que Homer Simpson: DOH!
No. You have it backwards. The "provisional plan" according to the Obama adminsitration maintains sanctions and requires inspections. Yet this "plan" has been rejected by Iran. Obama is now talking about "creatively" getting around sanctions. Anything that eases sanctions brings Iran closer to being a nuclear power.,The "plan" as it stands allows Iran to speed up research and development under global protection. This isn't the Simpsons and it is not the Springfield Nuclear power plant...this is real life.
That is just plain old wrong. It is factually innacurate and it completely ignores the currently estimated breakout time UNDER SANCTIONS.

That is only if you think these sanctions are the best we can do. It is not an either or proposition. The sanctions regime can and should be a lot tougher.
For example...read how Hillary's state department allowed her Clinton Global Intitiative donor friends to get around sanctions:

http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/24/hillary-clinton-runs-white-house-and-row-over-ukrainian-benefactors-trade-322253.html

These sanctions are a joke. The way "the deal" is going even they will be lifted in exchange for nothing. Inspections will not be allowed so there will be no verification of compliance. You are defending a mirage. The deal provides Iran international cover to maintain the status quo.

Edit - A very beautiful baby. Apologies for the bad manners.

Iran Deal, the reset..... and halt

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