I'd say that I spent 21 and a half years in the military, and that there's many men and women serving right now serving on the tip of the spear to allow him [Moore] to say that.
In saying that, Couglan is basically say our troops are fighting for our freedom. This is simply not true. I haven't read Couglan's book so, no, I'm not arguing about his perspective. I'm arguing against the notion that post-WWII we have fought various wars as a way to protect our freedom. I am arguing that that post-WWII we have not once fought to protect our freedom. We may have fought for other reasons (justifiable or not), but our freedom has never been in jeopardy from the outside.
This is the way I take it. That soldiers defend what they do by taking the propaganda talk of our gov't as a way to justify being on other lands and simply, defending their stance that what they do (kill) is justified and that "...we're fighting for you, man, we're fighting for you!"
That mentality. Like we owe them something because they voluntarily join the military.
That's how I see it too, bsL.
And worse, not all these young guys really know what they are getting into until it is too late and they come back with missing body parts and permanently screwed psyches.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Hedo, I don't think B-Lux was refusing to buy this guys perspective, just that tired old line about "protecting freedom"
I wonder what Mr. Lux meant if he himself explained it?
to answer your question, PJFanwillneverleave:
Here's the quote again:
I'd say that I spent 21 and a half years in the military, and that there's many men and women serving right now serving on the tip of the spear to allow him [Moore] to say that.
I know what the quote is. I was referring to your response to the quote. ("Does anybody here buy this? I don't. I don't think any of our troops (whom, as you know, I do support) have fought anywhere in the world in the last 50 years to fight for our freedom to say anything)".
Could you elaborate on this a little further so as we don't get others elaborating on what you may or may not have said.
Tell you what, why don't you answer my question first for a change. And would you please get that bright light out of my face, hahaha!
Well, I am not American so I am not as passionate about your freedoms. But my opinion of you guys is that your freedom to say anything is sacred and not to be questioned. If the tussle is better left in barren land to argue about that rather than on your homeland it is much easier on the "public".
TalonTed...our volunteer troops are fighting in Iraq right now. Not occupying Iraq or stealing their oil but actually helping the current Iraqi government protect civilians against Islamofacists. They are in harms way while you unintelligently smack away at your keyboard. Disagree with the policy if you like but show some damn respect for the kids who are over there. Also for those on the board who might be confused, some Canadians do in fact believe that her men and women in uniform are the tip of the spear in defense of our freedoms.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I'd say that I spent 21 and a half years in the military, and that there's many men and women serving right now serving on the tip of the spear to allow him [Moore] to say that.
In saying that, Couglan is basically say our troops are fighting for our freedom. This is simply not true. I haven't read Couglan's book so, no, I'm not arguing about his perspective. I'm arguing against the notion that post-WWII we have fought various wars as a way to protect our freedom. I am arguing that that post-WWII we have not once fought to protect our freedom. We may have fought for other reasons (justifiable or not), but our freedom has never been in jeopardy from the outside.
This is the way I take it. That soldiers defend what they do by taking the propaganda talk of our gov't as a way to justify being on other lands and simply, defending their stance that what they do (kill) is justified and that "...we're fighting for you, man, we're fighting for you!"
That mentality. Like we owe them something because they voluntarily join the military.
I feel like I owe them my respect. It's fine if for whatever reason others don't.
Well, I am not American so I am not as passionate about your freedoms. But my opinion of you guys is that your freedom to say anything is sacred and not to be questioned. If the tussle is better left in barren land to argue about that rather than on your homeland it is much easier on the "public".
It's strange, because I support freedoms not just here, but where you live as well, and where my mother was born, where my father grew up, etc.
Yes, I do hold precious my freedom in all forms, as I do those who may villify the choices in how I exercise it.
Would have quoted BB but they never work on my phone. Here's what he said:
"Dude, in the 90's a few Native Canadians took on the canadian forces, and won. The leader was named lasagna. Since then, our Prime minister (Harper) is like the little runt hiding behind the muscle(USA) jumping up and down behind him going, "yeah boy, we'll fuck you up". Canada would be defeated by Cuba in a fair fight."
A) He refrences the Oka crisis in Quebec which was a land dispute between the town of Oka which wanted to build a golf course and the Mohawk tribe. Other then a blockade and the shooting of a police officer there was no "taking on of the Canadian forces". The golf course wasn't built but to call this the "taking on of the Canadian Forces" is just stupid.
"Harper acting like a little runt behind the muscle" - Harper recognizes that for too long America has shouldered the burden and is doing what he can with the resources we have available to help anyway we can. Our country did not participate in the invasion of Iraq but we recognize that the American withdrawal post-surge is leaving a serious vacuum. Our volunteer troops are there and in Afganistan for the most nobel of reasons. They are not occupiers, they are not plunderers and they are not Imperialists. They have a tradition of peacekeeping and right now are fighting for the most part to defend muslims from other muslims! This is a selfless act and as a thank you from ISIS our troops are being murdered in our nation's capitol.
C) "Canada would be defeated by Cuba" - they would need an airforce and/or a navy to get here. Last I checked we had both. Give me a break.
Like I said. Disagree with our policies if you like but show some damn respect.
Well, I am not American so I am not as passionate about your freedoms. But my opinion of you guys is that your freedom to say anything is sacred and not to be questioned. If the tussle is better left in barren land to argue about that rather than on your homeland it is much easier on the "public".
It's strange, because I support freedoms not just here, but where you live as well, and where my mother was born, where my father grew up, etc.
Yes, I do hold precious my freedom in all forms, as I do those who may villify the choices in how I exercise it.
Also badbrains on a pearl jam message board, instead of the phrase "I have a feeling", you should use the phrase "I've got a feeling". It's a small thing but I think it's important.
TalonTed...our volunteer troops are fighting in Iraq right now. Not occupying Iraq or stealing their oil but actually helping the current Iraqi government protect civilians against Islamofacists. They are in harms way while you unintelligently smack away at your keyboard. Disagree with the policy if you like but show some damn respect for the kids who are over there. Also for those on the board who might be confused, some Canadians do in fact believe that her men and women in uniform are the tip of the spear in defense of our freedoms.
I appreciate your passion. And yes, the comments were off the cuff and meant to somewhat slander Harper, the military and its direction. I will not apologize for them nor will I give Harper and his cronies one ounce of respect. as for the "volunteers" in the armed forces, I was a member for five years, a reservist but a volunteer none the less. My sole motivation for joining back in 92 was being utterly disgusted with the slaughter off innocence in Sarajevo. My time in the force (and I spent 1 six month tour with the regs, training to go to somalia. Remember that fiasco where Clayton Matchie and his Nazi buddies tortured and killed that teenage kid) shed all sorts of light on what kind of brave men and women "volunteer' for military service. For the most part I would say that "volunteers" are psychopathic wanna be murders. that the reason most people state, joke about and glorify is the opportunity to KILL another person
As for the politics of this whole all encompassing shit storm the world is in now. It is largely due to the policies, practices, racist, in God we trust brainwashed society we so gleefully think is just and right. It is our society, our government (particularly America and Britain) that have created this entirely shameful crazy killing spree. Not to say that the, And I'll quote you BS "Islamofacists" aren't a bunch of rampaging brutes bent on rape and pillage. But, when your family has no job, no prospect, and no future, other than to watch Western COWARDS bomb, incarcerate, beat, humiliate, murder and yes TERRORIZE your region, for years, and do it all on you-tube laughing. Can you really blame a futureless, no prospect, never going to have a good life dude from saying "Fuck it, Allah whatever" and join up....what the fuck does this ignorant, only read one book (of complete fiction) really have to lose.
So in conclusion. I respect that your opinion is different, you are entitled. But please,don't for one second think that your perspective (and that of all the other freedom sheep) in North America have got the whole story. I know I don't. But I put 2 and 2 together and realize that it is our society that is at the root cause of all of this crap.
Allow me the freedom to hate what we have become.
Post edited by TalonTedd on
I remember when, yeah. I swore I knew everything, oh yeah.
TalonTed...our volunteer troops are fighting in Iraq right now. Not occupying Iraq or stealing their oil but actually helping the current Iraqi government protect civilians against Islamofacists. They are in harms way while you unintelligently smack away at your keyboard. Disagree with the policy if you like but show some damn respect for the kids who are over there. Also for those on the board who might be confused, some Canadians do in fact believe that her men and women in uniform are the tip of the spear in defense of our freedoms.
I appreciate your passion. And yes, the comments were off the cuff and meant to somewhat slander Harper, the military and its direction. I will not apologize for them nor will I give Harper and his cronies one ounce of respect. as for the "volunteers" in the armed forces, I was a member for five years, a reservist but a volunteer none the less. My sole motivation for joining back in 92 was being utterly disgusted with the slaughter off innocence in Sarajevo. My time in the force (and I spent 1 six month tour with the regs, training to go to somalia. Remember that fiasco where Clayton Matchie and his Nazi buddies tortured and killed that teenage kid) shed all sorts of light on what kind of brave men and women "volunteer' for military service. For the most part I would say that "volunteers" are psychopathic wanna be murders. that the reason most people state, joke about and glorify is the opportunity to KILL another person
As for the politics of this whole all encompassing shit storm the world is in now. It is largely due to the policies, practices, racist, in God we trust brainwashed society we so gleefully think is just and right. It is our society, our government (particularly America and Britain) that have created this entirely shameful crazy killing spree. Not to say that the, And I'll quote you BS "Islamofacists" aren't a bunch of rampaging brutes bent on rape and pillage. But, when your family has no job, no prospect, and no future, other than to watch Western COWARDS bomb, incarcerate, beat, humiliate, murder and yes TERRORIZE your region, for years, and do it all on you-tube laughing. Can you really blame a futureless, no prospect, never going to have a good life dude from saying "Fuck it, Allah whatever" and join up....what the fuck does this ignorant, only read one book (of complete fiction) really have to lose.
So in conclusion. I respect that your opinion is different, you are entitled. But please,don't for one second think that your perspective (and that of all the other freedom sheep) in North America have got the whole story. I know I don't. But I put 2 and 2 together and realize that it is our society that is at the root cause of all of this crap.
Allow me the freedom to hate what we have become.
Imagine doing your one time part time job for a living?
I'd say that I spent 21 and a half years in the military, and that there's many men and women serving right now serving on the tip of the spear to allow him [Moore] to say that.
In saying that, Couglan is basically say our troops are fighting for our freedom. This is simply not true. I haven't read Couglan's book so, no, I'm not arguing about his perspective. I'm arguing against the notion that post-WWII we have fought various wars as a way to protect our freedom. I am arguing that that post-WWII we have not once fought to protect our freedom. We may have fought for other reasons (justifiable or not), but our freedom has never been in jeopardy from the outside.
This is the way I take it. That soldiers defend what they do by taking the propaganda talk of our gov't as a way to justify being on other lands and simply, defending their stance that what they do (kill) is justified and that "...we're fighting for you, man, we're fighting for you!"
That mentality. Like we owe them something because they voluntarily join the military.
That's how I see it too, bsL.
And worse, not all these young guys really know what they are getting into until it is too late and they come back with missing body parts and permanently screwed psyches.
All these young guys? Getting into what Brian? I must say though it would be nice to own a used book store without a care in the world other than having to deal with rude customers.
Well, I am not American so I am not as passionate about your freedoms. But my opinion of you guys is that your freedom to say anything is sacred and not to be questioned. If the tussle is better left in barren land to argue about that rather than on your homeland it is much easier on the "public".
It's strange, because I support freedoms not just here, but where you live as well, and where my mother was born, where my father grew up, etc.
Yes, I do hold precious my freedom in all forms, as I do those who may villify the choices in how I exercise it.
BB my boy. feel free to call me any time, you too brian. One of the great things about spending way to much time here is meeting you guys. Americans that think the way you do.....it gives me some hope.
I remember when, yeah. I swore I knew everything, oh yeah.
Thank you for your service as a reservist but not all the volunteers I know had the same experience or feel the same as you. I also don't think you owe Harper an ounce of respect...that is your perogative...but I absolutely think you owe your brother's and sister's in uniform some. You underwent some training while many of them lost their lives. That should mean something to you. To refer to them as "psycopathic wanna be murderers" or "cowards" or "incarceraters" or "beaters" or "humiliaters or "terrorists" is so beyond disgusting that I think even Michael Moore would disagree with you. What's even worse though is that you have become such a nihilist. I mean why give a fuck about anything? Most Canadians I know are good people and believe that regardless of the past we still have the ability to make good today. If you would rather watch the world burn so be it but the Canada I know will never sit on the sidelines. Call me a "freedom sheep" if you want but my only response to that will be BAAA
Say BS the thing that got me a little rattled was the stupid comment. I took it a little to personal. And I throw a little to much stuff out there off the cuff. If I get to serious about these passionate debates, I may come off sounding a little crazy....Me!
I just want to say that I really enjoy and respect reading commentaries by the members that are thoughtful, considerate and researched. No matter if I agree with their conclusions. Anyone who thinks this place is dead, is wrong.
In joyous part.............and a song dedication to BS44325 to express my respect and friendship....................Who you are
I remember when, yeah. I swore I knew everything, oh yeah.
Damn. Thread's getting just a bit fucked and ugly. Hope the personal shit can be left aside.
When questions get asked that may seem to shine a light it often ends.
Questions can be asked, and answered, with decency.
Unlike a poster in this thread that drops verbose questions that seemingly thinks won't get a response because we are thick. It is not decent to ask questions with an ace of spades in your pocket (read someone that always sides with). People want to talk to each other not spinoffs or coattails of others. If someone wants to ask incendiary questions they better put up with the expectant results.
And who's doing most of the burning in this world? Tell me IS? Tell me a group of let's say 40,000-75,000 is burning this world. Tell me how an army of over 1,000,000 was defeated in less then 1 fucken week but yet these renegade fucks IS are STILL around? How this possible? Don't answer, I already know. And since you mentioned sheep, here's a fitting song I'll leave.
I didn't bring up sheep...your boy "Toronto Ted" did. Either way...I dig A Perfect Circle I really do but if I had to pick a sheep song it would be this:
Comments
I sure didn't.
That's how I see it too, bsL.
And worse, not all these young guys really know what they are getting into until it is too late and they come back with missing body parts and permanently screwed psyches.
Well, I am not American so I am not as passionate about your freedoms. But my opinion of you guys is that your freedom to say anything is sacred and not to be questioned. If the tussle is better left in barren land to argue about that rather than on your homeland it is much easier on the "public".
Yes, I do hold precious my freedom in all forms, as I do those who may villify the choices in how I exercise it.
"Dude, in the 90's a few Native Canadians took on the canadian forces, and won. The leader was named lasagna. Since then, our Prime minister (Harper) is like the little runt hiding behind the muscle(USA) jumping up and down behind him going, "yeah boy, we'll fuck you up". Canada would be defeated by Cuba in a fair fight."
A) He refrences the Oka crisis in Quebec which was a land dispute between the town of Oka which wanted to build a golf course and the Mohawk tribe. Other then a blockade and the shooting of a police officer there was no "taking on of the Canadian forces". The golf course wasn't built but to call this the "taking on of the Canadian Forces" is just stupid.
Wikipedia entry on Oka if you care
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oka_Crisis
C) "Canada would be defeated by Cuba" - they would need an airforce and/or a navy to get here. Last I checked we had both. Give me a break.
Like I said. Disagree with our policies if you like but show some damn respect.
Make sure you are prepared to say that to anyone.
Also badbrains on a pearl jam message board, instead of the phrase "I have a feeling", you should use the phrase "I've got a feeling". It's a small thing but I think it's important.
I appreciate your passion. And yes, the comments were off the cuff and meant to somewhat slander Harper, the military and its direction. I will not apologize for them nor will I give Harper and his cronies one ounce of respect. as for the "volunteers" in the armed forces, I was a member for five years, a reservist but a volunteer none the less. My sole motivation for joining back in 92 was being utterly disgusted with the slaughter off innocence in Sarajevo. My time in the force (and I spent 1 six month tour with the regs, training to go to somalia. Remember that fiasco where Clayton Matchie and his Nazi buddies tortured and killed that teenage kid) shed all sorts of light on what kind of brave men and women "volunteer' for military service. For the most part I would say that "volunteers" are psychopathic wanna be murders. that the reason most people state, joke about and glorify is the opportunity to KILL another person
As for the politics of this whole all encompassing shit storm the world is in now. It is largely due to the policies, practices, racist, in God we trust brainwashed society we so gleefully think is just and right. It is our society, our government (particularly America and Britain) that have created this entirely shameful crazy killing spree. Not to say that the, And I'll quote you BS "Islamofacists" aren't a bunch of rampaging brutes bent on rape and pillage. But, when your family has no job, no prospect, and no future, other than to watch Western COWARDS bomb, incarcerate, beat, humiliate, murder and yes TERRORIZE your region, for years, and do it all on you-tube laughing. Can you really blame a futureless, no prospect, never going to have a good life dude from saying "Fuck it, Allah whatever" and join up....what the fuck does this ignorant, only read one book (of complete fiction) really have to lose.
So in conclusion. I respect that your opinion is different, you are entitled. But please,don't for one second think that your perspective (and that of all the other freedom sheep) in North America have got the whole story. I know I don't. But I put 2 and 2 together and realize that it is our society that is at the root cause of all of this crap.
Allow me the freedom to hate what we have become.
Imagine doing your one time part time job for a living?
All these young guys? Getting into what Brian? I must say though it would be nice to own a used book store without a care in the world other than having to deal with rude customers.
Edit-oh and nice post Toronto Ted, way to stand your ground and NOT backtrack.
Why wouldn't I?
Because you two have a thing going on.
Edit - that was weird - I "quoted" one post and when it came up the post was different.
When questions get asked that may seem to shine a light it often ends.
ROCK the fuck on!
I just want to say that I really enjoy and respect reading commentaries by the members that are thoughtful, considerate and researched. No matter if I agree with their conclusions. Anyone who thinks this place is dead, is wrong.
In joyous part.............and a song dedication to BS44325 to express my respect and friendship....................Who you are
Soldier of Love.
That idealistic young guy that joined the reservists back in the day is in there somewhere.
Unlike a poster in this thread that drops verbose questions that seemingly thinks won't get a response because we are thick. It is not decent to ask questions with an ace of spades in your pocket (read someone that always sides with). People want to talk to each other not spinoffs or coattails of others. If someone wants to ask incendiary questions they better put up with the expectant results.
It's a no brainer.