War. Who really benefits?
Comments
-
That's what I thought.....SilenceDrowned Out said:
How am I an example of a spoiled nation? And what do the gun owners of the US have to do with a discussion of the spoils of war? You can't even keep your mindless tv sound bytes straightGodfather. said:
the fool is in the mirror....we have become a spoiled nation and you my friend are a perfect example of that but should we ever come under attack the gun owners of the great country will sadly save your ass along with other ........people.Drowned Out said:Godfather. said:....this is a little odd to me,first off this country should NEVER cut any part of it's military budget and second I find it odd that so many people say that something should be done with ISIS and terrorism in general and when the first hint of action is telegraphed everybody goes into a tizzzy and talks about the people profiting from war......WELL..here's a little clue for you all ...the profitis of war are not just money believe it or not some people even receive freedom @-)
Godfather.
)
The people talking about profits are the same people who said we should NOT do anything about ISIS. You're cherry picking arguments.
Why do you think the US should never cut any part of it's military budget? Just 'cause?
You admitted the other day that you don't know anything about pipelines etc....your complaints about people going into a tizzy over profits are baseless if you don't even understand how those profits are gained. A pretty good hint that you are taking your cues from TV news is your use of the words 'freedom' and 'terrorism'. I may sound 'belittling', but it's pretty fucking tiresome to see someone support a war agenda while simultaneously admitting they don't know wtf they're talking about. Pretty much supporting murder without knowing why.
If our goal is 'freedom', why do we insist on control of rebuilding efforts? Why do we insist on using US contractors to build, manage, and maintain the rebuilt infrastructure? Why do we insist on privatizing vital industries as a condition of rebuilding? Wouldn't all of these things help the economic 'freedom' of the state we destroyed?
Now....explain which peoples have received 'freedom' from West-waged war? Give me some examples. You can bring up WW2 if you'd like, but if that's all you've got, your stance is pretty much antiquated.
I do. Profit, dominate, and maintain the current world economic model. Partisan debate is even more disingenuous when discussing geopolitics than it is when discussing domestic policy.Jason P said:FYI - A guy that Fox News and Republicans consistently bash is personally directing the war in Syria.
Does anyone consider it Obama's main intention is to profit from the unstability in the middle east?)
Godfather.
)
Now that we've got the personal attacks out of the way...care to answer any of the questions I asked you in my previous post?
....shocked.
0 -
Well said Brian makes you feel that way doesn't it.brianlux said:I don't watch TV very often but have been watching the news lately due to the huge fire in our area and I notice how we're being psychically prepped for war. Time to turn off the damn TV.
0 -
I watched the 11pm news on our local NBC affiliate last night and...wow. The graphics, the terminology, the scary announcer voice...the whole thing looked like a caricature of network news, except it was the real thing. Disturbing.i_lov_it said:
Well said Brian makes you feel that way doesn't it.brianlux said:I don't watch TV very often but have been watching the news lately due to the huge fire in our area and I notice how we're being psychically prepped for war. Time to turn off the damn TV.
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
If memory serves, you complain about giving aid to other countries when there are problems at home...but have no problem with this?Godfather. said:....this is a little odd to me,first off this country should NEVER cut any part of it's military budget
Godfather.
0 -
no problem with the military budget at all but assuming the chart you give is close there should be adjustments, now I hope you don't think that 55.2% is going to war and guns because militart tech goes way beyond guns and bombs infact many of the things we take for granted in our daily lives today are products of military tech like the microwave oven but in my opinion you can't put a dollar amount on national security.Drowned Out said:
If memory serves, you complain about giving aid to other countries when there are problems at home...but have no problem with this?Godfather. said:....this is a little odd to me,first off this country should NEVER cut any part of it's military budget
Godfather.
Godfather.
0 -
Ok, I'm not going to refute your claims about military tech helping our daily lives. Very debatable, but....whatever. Yay, we got microwaves in exchange for 55% of our budget. You win.Godfather. said:
no problem with the military budget at all but assuming the chart you give is close there should be adjustments, now I hope you don't think that 55.2% is going to war and guns because militart tech goes way beyond guns and bombs infact many of the things we take for granted in our daily lives today are products of military tech like the microwave oven but in my opinion you can't put a dollar amount on national security.Drowned Out said:
If memory serves, you complain about giving aid to other countries when there are problems at home...but have no problem with this?Godfather. said:....this is a little odd to me,first off this country should NEVER cut any part of it's military budget
Godfather.
Godfather.
Now...I'll try again. You answered my military budget question....Care to answer any of the others I asked? I'll post them for you again:
1. If our goal is 'freedom', why do we insist on control of rebuilding efforts?
2. Why do we insist on using US contractors to build, manage, and maintain the rebuilt infrastructure?
3. Why do we insist on privatizing vital industries as a condition of rebuilding?
4. Wouldn't all of these things help the economic 'freedom' of the state we destroyed?
5. Now....explain which peoples have received 'freedom' from West-waged war? Give me some examples. You can bring up WW2 if you'd like, but if that's all you've got, your stance is pretty much antiquated.
6. How am I an example of a spoiled nation?0 -
Drowned Out, I'm not sure about 5 and 6, but in response to your first four questions, I'd like to share my answers:Drowned Out said:
Ok, I'm not going to refute your claims about military tech helping our daily lives. Very debatable, but....whatever. Yay, we got microwaves in exchange for 55% of our budget. You win.Godfather. said:
no problem with the military budget at all but assuming the chart you give is close there should be adjustments, now I hope you don't think that 55.2% is going to war and guns because militart tech goes way beyond guns and bombs infact many of the things we take for granted in our daily lives today are products of military tech like the microwave oven but in my opinion you can't put a dollar amount on national security.Drowned Out said:
If memory serves, you complain about giving aid to other countries when there are problems at home...but have no problem with this?Godfather. said:....this is a little odd to me,first off this country should NEVER cut any part of it's military budget
Godfather.
Godfather.
Now...I'll try again. You answered my military budget question....Care to answer any of the others I asked? I'll post them for you again:
1. If our goal is 'freedom', why do we insist on control of rebuilding efforts?
2. Why do we insist on using US contractors to build, manage, and maintain the rebuilt infrastructure?
3. Why do we insist on privatizing vital industries as a condition of rebuilding?
4. Wouldn't all of these things help the economic 'freedom' of the state we destroyed?
5. Now....explain which peoples have received 'freedom' from West-waged war? Give me some examples. You can bring up WW2 if you'd like, but if that's all you've got, your stance is pretty much antiquated.
6. How am I an example of a spoiled nation?
1. Because Americans are always doing the right thing.
2. Because Americans are always doing the right thing.
3. Because the privatization will be managed by American companies, and Americans are always doing the right thing.
4. No, because they're not Americans, and thus their initiatives will be mismanaged. Letting Americans take over, however, will ensure that things go smoothly, because Americans are always doing the right thing.
In spite of a tremendous amount of evidence suggesting otherwise, this seems to be the 'popular opinion'. I wish people would start questioning premises instead of conclusions; the lack of understanding of basic causality (which any 'event' can be boiled down to, albeit with much variability stemming from a number of different involved parties) within media consumers (including myself, but I'm working hard to try and systemize my logic and encourage others to do the same) is somewhat astonishing.
But who are we to question? Apparently linking to articles with facts or statistical information should be seen as 'laughable' here, and opinions should be revered as though they were factual. But only if they agree with your own viewpoint, of course - otherwise they should be unequivocally condemned.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
Drowned Out said:
Ok, I'm not going to refute your claims about military tech helping our daily lives. Very debatable, but....whatever. Yay, we got microwaves in exchange for 55% of our budget. You win.Godfather. said:
no problem with the military budget at all but assuming the chart you give is close there should be adjustments, now I hope you don't think that 55.2% is going to war and guns because militart tech goes way beyond guns and bombs infact many of the things we take for granted in our daily lives today are products of military tech like the microwave oven but in my opinion you can't put a dollar amount on national security.Drowned Out said:
If memory serves, you complain about giving aid to other countries when there are problems at home...but have no problem with this?Godfather. said:....this is a little odd to me,first off this country should NEVER cut any part of it's military budget
Godfather.
Godfather.
Now...I'll try again. You answered my military budget question....Care to answer any of the others I asked? I'll post them for you again:
1. If our goal is 'freedom', why do we insist on control of rebuilding efforts?
2. Why do we insist on using US contractors to build, manage, and maintain the rebuilt infrastructure?
3. Why do we insist on privatizing vital industries as a condition of rebuilding?
4. Wouldn't all of these things help the economic 'freedom' of the state we destroyed?
5. Now....explain which peoples have received 'freedom' from West-waged war? Give me some examples. You can bring up WW2 if you'd like, but if that's all you've got, your stance is pretty much antiquated.
6. How am I an example of a spoiled nation?
6. if I have to explain I doubt you would understand,if you're looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear... I'm not that guy.
Godfather.
0 -
In other words, your trend of accusations and allegations followed by backing down when being asked to present supporting evidence continues.Godfather. said:Drowned Out said:
Ok, I'm not going to refute your claims about military tech helping our daily lives. Very debatable, but....whatever. Yay, we got microwaves in exchange for 55% of our budget. You win.Godfather. said:
no problem with the military budget at all but assuming the chart you give is close there should be adjustments, now I hope you don't think that 55.2% is going to war and guns because militart tech goes way beyond guns and bombs infact many of the things we take for granted in our daily lives today are products of military tech like the microwave oven but in my opinion you can't put a dollar amount on national security.Drowned Out said:
If memory serves, you complain about giving aid to other countries when there are problems at home...but have no problem with this?Godfather. said:....this is a little odd to me,first off this country should NEVER cut any part of it's military budget
Godfather.
Godfather.
Now...I'll try again. You answered my military budget question....Care to answer any of the others I asked? I'll post them for you again:
1. If our goal is 'freedom', why do we insist on control of rebuilding efforts?
2. Why do we insist on using US contractors to build, manage, and maintain the rebuilt infrastructure?
3. Why do we insist on privatizing vital industries as a condition of rebuilding?
4. Wouldn't all of these things help the economic 'freedom' of the state we destroyed?
5. Now....explain which peoples have received 'freedom' from West-waged war? Give me some examples. You can bring up WW2 if you'd like, but if that's all you've got, your stance is pretty much antiquated.
6. How am I an example of a spoiled nation?
6. if I have to explain I doubt you would understand,if you're looking for someone to tell you what you want to hear... I'm not that guy.
Godfather.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
lmao...gf: dude you pretty much never make sense. I'm not looking for you to tell me what I want to hear, and I have no clue what that infers. Do you really think I'm hoping you'll say something nice about me?) honestly, I'd rather not hear anything you have to say about me...but since you called me spoiled...back up your claim. How am I an example of a spoiled nation?
I assume this means you're going to let Ben's answer's on the other five stand for you, right? That would be pretty funny (and fitting), considering it's pure sarcasm, aimed at the typical uninformed, blinded-by-nationalism-and-corporate-news, idiot American/westerner.Post edited by Drowned Out on0 -
I feel the need to ask what you mean by your original post and title of this thread. War, who benefits? Do you mean as in the people who might get to live another day through military intervention, or do you mean companies that will benefit from war? How much is a live saved vs a profit for a company? From this thread I'm guessing maybe 5 bucks equals a death of someone that you don't know?0
-
Maybe more clearer to say "why do we go to war ". To save humans or for $$$.
10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
How many Iraqi's died as a result of our intervention there? Upwards of a million...mattsl1983 said:I feel the need to ask what you mean by your original post and title of this thread. War, who benefits? Do you mean as in the people who might get to live another day through military intervention, or do you mean companies that will benefit from war? How much is a live saved vs a profit for a company? From this thread I'm guessing maybe 5 bucks equals a death of someone that you don't know?
Your last two sentences don't make sense, what do you mean 5 bucks equals a death? For who? The profiteers? Or are you implying that's all a life is worth to those who oppose? I don't get it.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
you guys with the new avatar are throwing me lol....every time i see a new thread with db cooper i think that the B man is back.
i admire the solidarity. if i can figure out how to change my avatar i might have to join you.
carry on!!"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0
Categories
- All Categories
- 149.1K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110.2K The Porch
- 283 Vitalogy
- 35.1K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.3K Flea Market
- 39.3K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help