America's Gun Violence

Double post...

rgambs said:

PJPOWER said:

callen said:

PJPOWER said:

callen said:

unsung said:

Forgive me if I'm not sympathetic to their difficulties that they face in life. However when a group wants to deny me my rights I lose any respect for them, they brought it upon themselves.

And that can be turned right back around. Due to ones want to have a gun it takes away my rights to live in safe environment. Also celebrities could get rid of their body guards with guns if we didn't have a gun free for all.

Having a handgun has made me safer. I had to shoot a rabid dog with a handgun (cannot really carry a shotgun everywhere I go) while working on a ranch. Why should someone's fear of handguns deny me my right to protect myself and live in a safer environment?

Can justify all you like. I know on the whole we all have higher chance of being injured or killed by a gun versus a Western European country that isn't inundated with guns.

Gun culture has made this country worse.

"Gun culture has made this country worse". I'll have to respectfully disagree with that OPINION. Owning guns and hunting has definitely added much recreation, fellowship, knowledge, and food to my life

Well we wouldn't want to cut into your recreation to save a few thousand lives, that would be such a shame.

This is what gets me and is a place to bring up the dreaded "car analogy". Taking away every car in the world would save millions of lives, but we wouldn't want to cut into people's ability to get from one place to another in a fast way, "that would be such a shame". Stop using idiotic rhetoric and comparisons against me and I'll do the same...promise.
Would taking away all violent forms of media save thousands of lives? Would people be willing to outlaw expressions of violence through movies, video games, etc? Why not? What created people's disposition towards violence in this day and age? Let's consider that for once. I promise it's not farmer Joe with his guns.

Farmer Joe with hunting rifles and shotguns isn't the target of gun control. Commando Billy with his handguns and assault rifles, and gang members with their handguns and mac 10s are the target, farmer Joe is a deflection. I have a rifle, and *GASP* I have used it to put food on the spit.
Doesn't mean I have to stand in the way of mag limits, BG checks, and waiting periods out of some misguided solidarity handed down by the rich men who profit from gun sales.

The USA is the most armed country in the world. The USA features 97 guns per 100 people. This is the highest ownership rate in the world- by far. The second most armed country is Serbia at 58.2 guns per 100 people.

The USA boasts the highest firearm related death rate of any developed country... by far- 10.3 per 100,000 bite the bullet each year. For comparison's sake... Canada 2.38 (30.8 guns per 100 people) and the UK 0.25 (6.2 guns per 100,000).

* Note that Canada has a higher ownership rate than the UK and, correspondingly, a higher death rate as well.

So... use really weak 'car' analogies and 'walking across the street' analogies and 'kitchen fork' analogies to rationalize and preserve unchecked gun ownership... but the bottom line is... more guns= more deaths by guns. This is indisputable and a homerun for the anti-gun crowd.

People should be more forthright. Instead of using feeble arguments to justify gun ownership and making yourself look slightly goofy in the process... just say, "Mmmmm. Guns" ... because honestly... as elaborate as one might try and make themselves sound trying to convince someone of the value of guns in light of the staggering yearly death rates and shocking daily incidents... that's what the argument comes across as.

Double quote again, baaa!

PJPOWER said:

rgambs said:

Farmer Joe with hunting rifles and shotguns isn't the target of gun control. Commando Billy with his handguns and assault rifles, and gang members with their handguns and mac 10s are the target, farmer Joe is a deflection. I have a rifle, and *GASP* I have used it to put food on the spit.
Doesn't mean I have to stand in the way of mag limits, BG checks, and waiting periods out of some misguided solidarity handed down by the rich men who profit from gun sales.

So how exactly do you propose taking away handguns from gang members?

rgambs said:

Hahaha idiotic rhetoric? Relating recreation to travel should qualify. Auto travel makes medical care, family contact, and career choice possible. The car analogy works against you here, as you are concerned with recreation. Driving fast is fun and yet we all accept speed limits as rational limits to our recreation, due to the undeniable correlation between auto speed and rate of fatality.

So you are saying that everyone used a car in a legal form or fashion 100% of the time? Why are cars even built with the ability of going over the speed limit?There are limits on firearms as well, lots of them. I just fail to understand how making something illegal is going to stop people from using them in illegal ways...round and round we go. I'm tired, good luck finding a magic wand to make guns disappear.

Here in ohio only the first purchaser is subject to a bg check.
In my view traceability for all sales from initial purchase on down the line would with accountability in those guns that make their way into the hands of criminals.

As it stands now in my state a "private" gun transaction happens in the "dark". I say shine a light on this shit.

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

The USA is the most armed country in the world. The USA features 97 guns per 100 people. This is the highest ownership rate in the world- by far. The second most armed country is Serbia at 58.2 guns per 100 people.

The USA boasts the highest firearm related death rate of any developed country... by far- 10.3 per 100,000 bite the bullet each year. For comparison's sake... Canada 2.38 (30.8 guns per 100 people) and the UK 0.25 (6.2 guns per 100,000).

* Note that Canada has a higher ownership rate than the UK and, correspondingly, a higher death rate as well.

So... use really weak 'car' analogies and 'walking across the street' analogies and 'kitchen fork' analogies to rationalize and preserve unchecked gun ownership... but the bottom line is... more guns= more deaths by guns. This is indisputable and a homerun for the anti-gun crowd.

People should be more forthright. Instead of using feeble arguments to justify gun ownership and making yourself look slightly goofy in the process... just say, "Mmmmm. Guns" ... because honestly... as elaborate as one might try and make themselves sound trying to convince someone of the value of guns in light of the staggering yearly death rates and shocking daily incidents... that's what the argument comes across as.

Bullshit, I think that what you stated is exactly why people use the car analogy. People owning more guns=more gun deaths. People owning more cars=more car deaths. But...anyone could also say that people owning guns=more people defending their homes with guns. People owning guns=more people using guns to avoid being kidnaped and raped...There are two sides to everything. "Mmmmmm, ignorant media tool"-the anti gun crowd

This is foolishness.

Why not add: more bubble gum= more choking deaths by bubble gum.

The countries I compared for you do not have an epidemic of the things you describe so... the 'being able to defend yourself against the bad guys' argument is another silly, silly one that gun advocates like to convince themselves of.

Part of the reason why Canada and the UK do not experience what you suggest is the fact that our despondent people do not become brazen enough to commit such acts because they do not have a cheap gun they just bought from the gas station (or on-line) that allows them to puff their chest out and become tough.

I love how you dance around the 'design and purpose' argument that is also very damaging to your case. Guns are designed to kill... so... the deaths that occur as a result of gun usage are ultimately by design. Bubble gum is designed for pleasure... so... the deaths that occur as a result of bubble gum chewing are an accident and outside the scope of bubble gum's design.

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

The USA is the most armed country in the world. The USA features 97 guns per 100 people. This is the highest ownership rate in the world- by far. The second most armed country is Serbia at 58.2 guns per 100 people.

The USA boasts the highest firearm related death rate of any developed country... by far- 10.3 per 100,000 bite the bullet each year. For comparison's sake... Canada 2.38 (30.8 guns per 100 people) and the UK 0.25 (6.2 guns per 100,000).

* Note that Canada has a higher ownership rate than the UK and, correspondingly, a higher death rate as well.

So... use really weak 'car' analogies and 'walking across the street' analogies and 'kitchen fork' analogies to rationalize and preserve unchecked gun ownership... but the bottom line is... more guns= more deaths by guns. This is indisputable and a homerun for the anti-gun crowd.

People should be more forthright. Instead of using feeble arguments to justify gun ownership and making yourself look slightly goofy in the process... just say, "Mmmmm. Guns" ... because honestly... as elaborate as one might try and make themselves sound trying to convince someone of the value of guns in light of the staggering yearly death rates and shocking daily incidents... that's what the argument comes across as.

Bullshit, I think that what you stated is exactly why people use the car analogy. People owning more guns=more gun deaths. People owning more cars=more car deaths. But...anyone could also say that people owning guns=more people defending their homes with guns. People owning guns=more people using guns to avoid being kidnaped and raped...There are two sides to everything. "Mmmmmm, ignorant media tool"-the anti gun crowd

This is foolishness.

Why not add: more bubble gum= more choking deaths by bubble gum.

The countries I compared for you do not have an epidemic of the things you describe so... the 'being able to defend yourself against the bad guys' argument is another silly, silly one that gun advocates like to convince themselves of.

Part of the reason why Canada and the UK do not experience what you suggest is the fact that our despondent people do not become brazen enough to commit such acts because they do not have a cheap gun they just bought from the gas station (or on-line) that allows them to puff their chest out and become tough.

I love how you dance around the 'design and purpose' argument that is also very damaging to your case. Guns are designed to kill... so... the deaths that occur as a result of gun usage are ultimately by design. Bubble gum is designed for pleasure... so... the deaths that occur as a result of bubble gum chewing are an accident and outside the scope of bubble gum's design.

How am I dancing around the design and purpose argument? I use my guns to kill pigs, deer, pheasant. They kill well for me. Would you prefer me stone a deer to death? Some places use guns for avalanche control. Bows and arrows were designed to kill people. Originally, knifes and clubs were used to kill...but that does not mean that their current purpose is to kill people. Some people use things outside of their design, just as some people do use cars to kill and many gun owners use guns to shoot paper for competition.
I bet Canada does not have to worry about other factors plaguing the USA either. I've never heard of cartels trying to get into the USA so that they can make their way to Canada...they end up in Houston, or LA, or Chicago. I am going to have a hard time being persuaded that they exist because guns are legal in the US.

callen said:

PJPOWER said:

callen said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

The USA is the most armed country in the world. The USA features 97 guns per 100 people. This is the highest ownership rate in the world- by far. The second most armed country is Serbia at 58.2 guns per 100 people.

The USA boasts the highest firearm related death rate of any developed country... by far- 10.3 per 100,000 bite the bullet each year. For comparison's sake... Canada 2.38 (30.8 guns per 100 people) and the UK 0.25 (6.2 guns per 100,000).

* Note that Canada has a higher ownership rate than the UK and, correspondingly, a higher death rate as well.

So... use really weak 'car' analogies and 'walking across the street' analogies and 'kitchen fork' analogies to rationalize and preserve unchecked gun ownership... but the bottom line is... more guns= more deaths by guns. This is indisputable and a homerun for the anti-gun crowd.

People should be more forthright. Instead of using feeble arguments to justify gun ownership and making yourself look slightly goofy in the process... just say, "Mmmmm. Guns" ... because honestly... as elaborate as one might try and make themselves sound trying to convince someone of the value of guns in light of the staggering yearly death rates and shocking daily incidents... that's what the argument comes across as.

Bullshit, I think that what you stated is exactly why people use the car analogy. People owning more guns=more gun deaths. People owning more cars=more car deaths. But...anyone could also say that people owning guns=more people defending their homes with guns. People owning guns=more people using guns to avoid being kidnaped and raped...There are two sides to everything. "Mmmmmm, ignorance"-the anti gun crowd

Way to overlook the obvious. Thirty pretty much laid out clearly how fucked it is that we 're fkn gun crazy.

Think it would be great for you to spend couple of years in Switzerland and feel how great it is to live in a place that your not in fear of being shot by a gun.

Excellent, there are not as many border problems, gang problems, drug problems, poverty problems, education problems in Switzerland...do those things hold no merit? Maybe if we isolated like Switzerland, so many of our gun problems would go away... I wanna wanna be like the Swiss (playing the "I want to be like Mike" music in my head)

Our problems are exasperated by guns. Easier to get gun in US than in Mexico. Major source of guns in Mexico come from the US. blame everyone else other than the paranoid insecure white male gun owner. Those coloreds are gonna get you.

Wow, that's a pretty racist thing for you to say...way to demonize white male gun owners. I know plenty of white, Hispanic, and Black gun owners that would be offended by this statement. That is by far more bigotry than has ever been expressed by me. Interesting too, most of my psychology books talk about how usage of offensive sarcasm and insecurity go hand in hand. Congratulations!
As far as guns getting into the hands of Mexican cartels, you can thank the current administration for that, see "Fast and Furious"

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJPOWER said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

The USA is the most armed country in the world. The USA features 97 guns per 100 people. This is the highest ownership rate in the world- by far. The second most armed country is Serbia at 58.2 guns per 100 people.

The USA boasts the highest firearm related death rate of any developed country... by far- 10.3 per 100,000 bite the bullet each year. For comparison's sake... Canada 2.38 (30.8 guns per 100 people) and the UK 0.25 (6.2 guns per 100,000).

* Note that Canada has a higher ownership rate than the UK and, correspondingly, a higher death rate as well.

So... use really weak 'car' analogies and 'walking across the street' analogies and 'kitchen fork' analogies to rationalize and preserve unchecked gun ownership... but the bottom line is... more guns= more deaths by guns. This is indisputable and a homerun for the anti-gun crowd.

People should be more forthright. Instead of using feeble arguments to justify gun ownership and making yourself look slightly goofy in the process... just say, "Mmmmm. Guns" ... because honestly... as elaborate as one might try and make themselves sound trying to convince someone of the value of guns in light of the staggering yearly death rates and shocking daily incidents... that's what the argument comes across as.

Bullshit, I think that what you stated is exactly why people use the car analogy. People owning more guns=more gun deaths. People owning more cars=more car deaths. But...anyone could also say that people owning guns=more people defending their homes with guns. People owning guns=more people using guns to avoid being kidnaped and raped...There are two sides to everything. "Mmmmmm, ignorant media tool"-the anti gun crowd

This is foolishness.

Why not add: more bubble gum= more choking deaths by bubble gum.

The countries I compared for you do not have an epidemic of the things you describe so... the 'being able to defend yourself against the bad guys' argument is another silly, silly one that gun advocates like to convince themselves of.

Part of the reason why Canada and the UK do not experience what you suggest is the fact that our despondent people do not become brazen enough to commit such acts because they do not have a cheap gun they just bought from the gas station (or on-line) that allows them to puff their chest out and become tough.

I love how you dance around the 'design and purpose' argument that is also very damaging to your case. Guns are designed to kill... so... the deaths that occur as a result of gun usage are ultimately by design. Bubble gum is designed for pleasure... so... the deaths that occur as a result of bubble gum chewing are an accident and outside the scope of bubble gum's design.

How am I dancing around the design and purpose argument? I use my guns to kill pigs, deer, pheasant. They kill well for me. Would you prefer me stone a deer to death? Some places use guns for avalanche control. Bows and arrows were designed to kill people. Originally, knifes and clubs were used to kill...but that does not mean that their current purpose is to kill people. Some people use things outside of their design, just as some people do use cars to kill and many gun owners use guns to shoot paper for competition.
I bet Canada does not have to worry about other factors plaguing the USA either. I've never heard of cartels trying to get into the USA so that they can make their way to Canada...they end up in Houston, or LA, or Chicago. I am going to have a hard time being persuaded that they exist because guns are legal in the US.

Firstly, nobody here is arguing to take your hunting rifles away so that you cannot kill pigs, deer and pheasant. People are opposed to handguns and military style rifles such as the AR-15 (as well as high capacity magazines and 'easy-peasy' access).

Trust me when I say that Canada has it's share of the problems you speak of.

And the cartels are not something the average citizen in the US should be afraid of- unless you are in business with them. To illustrate what I mean... look at Juarez and El Paso (two cities that rest opposite each other on the Rio Grande River. In 2010, Juarez saw 3,110 murders, while El Paso had five- despite being second in the USA for banking cash deposits (obvious drug money).

El Paso, right next to Mexico, is consistently ranked as one of the USA's safest cities. So... it's not foreigners that should have you fearful... it's your neighbours with their guns that have become the problem for you.

Curious...wonder how many people in El Paso are gun owners? My neighbors with guns have yet to pose a problem for me. 90% of the gun violence in my area are foreigners and Mexican mafia/gang related. In fact, there have been many violent burglaries recently that have been stopped by homeowners with guns. Who is playing the fear card now?