what do you think of America's leadership sense obama got elected ?

PJ_Soul said:

Idris said:

PJ_Soul said:

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:

There aren't enough options in this poll.
Obama has done some very good things, some very bad things, and some things that are pretty okay to so-so.

Obama is a LOT better than Bush was though.

Give examples of what you think. Obama's done that's been bad?

No not you GF or Unsung you both have blurred realities on Obama.

IMHO, the worst things that Obama has done is defend the NSA and support a witch hunt of NSA whistle blowers, and to continue support of Israel. Also allowing the increase of the use of drones, both overseas and domestically.

Mass data collection,spying, dropping bombs on people. Those are really bad things,

Still not sure how he is a LOT better than Bush.

Because Bush did all of those thing plus a bunch of other very terrible things the Obama doesn't do (hello, Iraq war! Hello religion running the white house! Hello being against gay rights and the right of women to choose, not to mention that he's a fucking moron and complete joke to pretty much everyone in the world), and oversaw the near total collapse of the US economy, while Obama has overseen a fairly extraordinary economic recovery considering where he had to start. I also happen to support Obamacare as a good first step in making the US Healthcare system a humane one.

Obama is responsible for other terrible things as well. So what difference does it make? The one child killer is no higher than the other.

Obama has expanded the U.S.Empire, invaded other nations, set up Military Command centers in other lands, The build up of AFRICOM, in 10 years you will see the seeds Obama has planted, you will see what they have grown into.

Even if Obama gave everyone in the US health care, still does not take away all the destruction he has caused/supported. Doing something good, and then doing a whole bunch of really bad things, sorry.

Obama is upholding the Status quo, I do not give him a pass. He is no better than Bush.

PJ_Soul said:

Idris said:

PJ_Soul said:

Idris said:

PJ_Soul said:

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:

There aren't enough options in this poll.
Obama has done some very good things, some very bad things, and some things that are pretty okay to so-so.

Obama is a LOT better than Bush was though.

Give examples of what you think. Obama's done that's been bad?

No not you GF or Unsung you both have blurred realities on Obama.

IMHO, the worst things that Obama has done is defend the NSA and support a witch hunt of NSA whistle blowers, and to continue support of Israel. Also allowing the increase of the use of drones, both overseas and domestically.

Mass data collection,spying, dropping bombs on people. Those are really bad things,

Still not sure how he is a LOT better than Bush.

Because Bush did all of those thing plus a bunch of other very terrible things the Obama doesn't do (hello, Iraq war! Hello religion running the white house! Hello being against gay rights and the right of women to choose, not to mention that he's a fucking moron and complete joke to pretty much everyone in the world), and oversaw the near total collapse of the US economy, while Obama has overseen a fairly extraordinary economic recovery considering where he had to start. I also happen to support Obamacare as a good first step in making the US Healthcare system a humane one.

Obama is responsible for other terrible things as well. So what difference does it make? The one child killer is no higher than the other.

Obama has expanded the U.S.Empire, invaded other nations, set up Military Command centers in other lands, The build up of AFRICOM, in 10 years you will see the seeds Obama has planted, you will see what they have grown into.

Even if Obama gave everyone in the US health care, still does not take away all the destruction he has caused/supported. Doing something good, and then doing a whole bunch of really bad things, sorry.

Obama is upholding the Status quo, I do not give him a pass. He is no better than Bush.

It's all relative. And relatively, Obama wins. That doesn't mean he gets a pass. It just means that he is better than Bush was based on my own values and expectations. That's hardly a compliment!
But incompletely disagree that anything good a president does or stands for is wiped out by the bad.

If its all 'relative' then how can u declare that Obama has won? And really, what did he win? The lesser of an evil bastard then Bush award?

Some of the worst people in history have also done 'good' things.

and because he may of done some good, does not make him better than the others. Cause, ya, in this way its all relative, cause they all have done good things, but were rightfully judged by the bad they did.

We need to really educate ourselves on Obama, see where he has troops right now, see what governments and groups he is supporting, then come back and tell me because he supports gay rights and is smarter than bush, =he is a LOT 'better'.

and this, 'Obama supports womens 'right' to choose', all those women he has killed in drone strikes and via his supports of certain governments, did he give them a choice? Yes I get what 'womens right to choose' refers to, but its really just an interesting take on the phrase.

The only 'opinion' would be is if Obama is better or worse than Bush.

But even after knowing all these bad things Obama has done/is responsible for, to still give him credit and say that he is a LOT better than Bush...I dont know, it says quite a bit.

Wait, I agree. Obama has been a better president overall than Bush.

Better at manipulation, and more effective in his expansion of the U.S. Empire.

So Yes, I do see him as a better president than Bush, and that also does not mean that I also don't see Obama as a bad president, a murdering bully expanding the empire into Africa, a place W. could hardly touch. A place that will yield many major conflicts, the seeds Obama has planted.

Cliffy6745 said:

unsung said:

callen said:

PJ_Soul said:

There aren't enough options in this poll.
Obama has done some very good things, some very bad things, and some things that are pretty okay to so-so.

Obama is a LOT better than Bush was though.

Give examples of what you think. Obama's done that's been bad?

No not you GF or Unsung you both have blurred realities on Obama.

I guess that's better than having a blurred reality on reality.

Says the guy who thinks the bin laden hit was an act

You expect me to take them for their word? That's rich.

that being said, i do agree that he is upholding the status quo and does not get a pass... But this tough talk i hear about how both parties are equally bad is just out of touch. Yes the powers at the top know that dems (the supposed "softies" and repubs (the "hardliners") will do their bidding, i understand that the work together to screw us. But the tea party has taught us that if we let the hardliner mentality flourish we get it from the bottom up. We get local and state politicians who introduce insane rape bills, vote to succeed, try to bring back segregation, seek to eliminate birth control and all the other crazy things we see the Gohmert types trying to pull. There is no third option. Its a repub and a dem thats your choice...establishment candidates and thats all, campaign reform is going nowhere.
Unsung i asked a while back if you considered revolution. You said something like "you act as if its never been done"
Risk thousands or more lives to overturn and upset the richest, most comfortable society that has existed on this planet? I dont think so!
Until humanity grows a heart or destroys itself we will always have to choose the lesser of evils.

'Until humanity grows a heart or destroys itself we will always have to choose the lesser of evils'

rgambs, sorry but that is Not a choice, they give us two clowns and we call it choice, "guess I choose the lesser evil guy"

How unfortunate. You want change, stop supporting these people, dont be part of voting for people that are still 'evil'.

callen said:

Idris said:

Wait, I agree. Obama has been a better president overall than Bush.

Better at manipulation, and more effective in his expansion of the U.S. Empire.

So Yes, I do see him as a better president than Bush, and that also does not mean that I also don't see Obama as a bad president, a murdering bully expanding the empire into Africa, a place W. could hardly touch. A place that will yield many major conflicts, the seeds Obama has planted.

Obama 10000 'a times better than W period. The world is a fucked up place. Humans suck ass and any person you choose will have to make some decisions that suck either way. It's reality.

The decisions Obama has made both for domestic and foreign affairs have been 1000 times better than Cheney presidency and that of what would be if McCain or Romney where in the White House.

To somehow think Obama is same as Bush is ludicrous.

Obama's silence on what is happening in Gaza really says it all, shows where he stands. Shows who he is.

1000 times better? Hardly.

There is little difference between the two.

Idris said:

callen said:

Idris said:

Wait, I agree. Obama has been a better president overall than Bush.

Better at manipulation, and more effective in his expansion of the U.S. Empire.

So Yes, I do see him as a better president than Bush, and that also does not mean that I also don't see Obama as a bad president, a murdering bully expanding the empire into Africa, a place W. could hardly touch. A place that will yield many major conflicts, the seeds Obama has planted.

Obama 10000 'a times better than W period. The world is a fucked up place. Humans suck ass and any person you choose will have to make some decisions that suck either way. It's reality.

The decisions Obama has made both for domestic and foreign affairs have been 1000 times better than Cheney presidency and that of what would be if McCain or Romney where in the White House.

To somehow think Obama is same as Bush is ludicrous.

Obama's silence on what is happening in Gaza really says it all, shows where he stands. Shows who he is.

1000 times better? Hardly.

Again read what I wrote about the world is fucked. How is it your pinning this on Obama when NO other president has ever been able to do squat? You can't blame Obama for everything. And yeah he's part of the machine no doubt but compared to getting us in two wars thousands of us soldiers killed and wounded and Billions of dollars pissed away saying he's worse or same as Bush is nuts with all due respect for Mr Unsung and GF. >:)