This has to stop

with all the nonsense talk about violence and fairness, i think we (i) may have forgotten the bigger picture here. to me, this encapsulates my feelings on the matter...

Big Bank Hank said:

People leaving for hours is only one of many problems, here is a selection of issues explaining why this is bs!

-The people owning the list has no official authority but expect everyone to follow their command (what happens if you rightly question their self-taken authority?)

-There are no standard rules between shows and rules are made by the list managers (means they can set the rules to their benefit, for example so they can go sleep in the hotel which they obvisouly do)

-When you come to a show you may not even know about the list and go to the line without getting a number (realising later about the list and then has lost queing time, and no, not everyone has been to loads of shows, are you expected to be aware of the list on your first show?)

-When you come to a show you dont know who to get the number from (so instead of just getting in line you need to run around looking for someone you dont know. I wouldnt be surprised if the people creating the lists all know eachother, so they wont have to spend much time looking, or will get a number via phone...)

-Numbers har stopped being given out after reaching random levels (meaning that at some point the people arriving cant get a number, and are forced to sit in the queue while the people on the list can do whatever they want and just pass everyone with their number when they come back)

People owning and managing the lists are selfish so called fans and Im not surprised they're not here to defend their system. I would like someone from their side respond to the issues above.

There is every reason to tell people where to go.

They have absolutely no right whatsoever to tell others where they are in a queue.

Queues work by one person starting at the front and others sequentially joining the end.

That is it.

This list is well out of order and needs to be stopped immediately.

its_ok said:

People leaving for hours is only one of many problems, here is a selection of issues explaining why this is bs!

-The people owning the list has no official authority but expect everyone to follow their command (what happens if you rightly question their self-taken authority?)

-There are no standard rules between shows and rules are made by the list managers (means they can set the rules to their benefit, for example so they can go sleep in the hotel which they obvisouly do)

-When you come to a show you may not even know about the list and go to the line without getting a number (realising later about the list and then has lost queing time, and no, not everyone has been to loads of shows, are you expected to be aware of the list on your first show?)

-When you come to a show you dont know who to get the number from (so instead of just getting in line you need to run around looking for someone you dont know. I wouldnt be surprised if the people creating the lists all know eachother, so they wont have to spend much time looking, or will get a number via phone...)

-Numbers har stopped being given out after reaching random levels (meaning that at some point the people arriving cant get a number, and are forced to sit in the queue while the people on the list can do whatever they want and just pass everyone with their number when they come back)

People owning and managing the lists are selfish so called fans and Im not surprised they're not here to defend their system. I would like someone from their side respond to the issues above.

All excellent points! They all explain perfectly why a fan-run list is not workable.

Luckytwn1 said:

Olivavu said:

I would be interested to see if any of these selfish arseholes are prepared to defend this nasty list.

I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.

So you're choosing to ignore the facts. Okay then.

Luckytwn1 said:

I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.

I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?

melissachun said:

Luckytwn1 said:

I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.

I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?

I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.

There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.

Luckytwn1 said:

melissachun said:

Luckytwn1 said:

I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.

I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?

I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.

There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.

Get in line and stay there really simple. Arbitrary list creators started at arbitrary times with easy means to add friends before anyone else even gets opportunity to be added. It's a very very bad deal for everyone but the list makers and their friends. This cannot in any way be defended using any logic.

Luckytwn1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

e

Luckytwn1 said:

melissachun said:

Luckytwn1 said:

I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.

I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?

I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.

There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.

Did you read the original post? You think people checking in every six hours and skipping over people that actually wait is fair? I've read multiple posts on here with people stating similar stories from first hand accounts. Sounds corrupt to me. Unless they are all lying.

Of course, it's fair. People are told when the check-ins are. If someone chooses to stay, that's totally up to them. Last year, I was on the GA line for Bruce in Munich. I arrived found the list, was given my number, and between check-ins I went to the BMW Museum, got a bite to eat, etc.

And the people who don't go to every show, have no idea of an unofficial list, and show up to actually wait in line should just all eat shit? There is absolutely nothing fair about the original post. If it was an endorsed/official policy like Bruce, that is one thing. Ten club stated prior to the tour that there is no list. So the list is just some people buddying up to help themselves and holds as much weight as me declaring myself the King of Nigeria. Even if I had 500 people hanging out with me saying, "yeah he's the King of Nigeria because we say so", it wouldn't be valid.

Luckytwn1 said:

WhatYouTaughtMe said:

e

Luckytwn1 said:

melissachun said:

Luckytwn1 said:

I did not do GA on this tour because my five digit number makes doing GA not worth the hassle but I can easily defend the use of the list/check-in system because as I said it is the rule for Springsteen European shows and it has worked extremely well. That is a fact and that's why is has been going on for over a decade.

I think you keep posting the same thing about Springsteen in Europe because you're waiting for someone to agree with you. While I respect the opinion you've formulated from your experiences, it has little to do with this thread. It offers no evidence that the "system" in place here isn't dubious and corrupt. Just because a certain way of doing things has been accepted by lots people for a long time, it doesn't make it right or fair, and doesn't mean it should never change. Sure, the small amount of people who are able to benefit from the perks the list offers think it's great. But does every person in that line feel the same way? Do the people who make the list even care?

I honestly couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I decided to respond in the thread because I was reading stuff that was blatantly wrong, especially the claims that this system had never been used by anyone before. Springsteen GA lines in Europe routinely have thousands of people on them and the list helps keep order and settle disputes. That's why it is such an accepted practice at this point and why the Springsteen org allows it to go on. In the States, where they did not want the list/check-in system being used, they created the lottery.

There is no evidence I've read of widespread corruption involving the lists on this PJ tour, indeed most of the people in this thread who have done GA have said the opposite. It is a fact that the list/check-in system can work (the final check-in should be no later than noon or 1 PM and then everyone remains in line) and much of the hysteria in this thread is not based on actual experience. Having said that, if PJ doesn't want to allow the list, that is certainly their right and it seems that is the decision they made and like with Bruce and the lottery, they should make sure that they have a staffer coordinating with venue security so that the line is properly run.

Did you read the original post? You think people checking in every six hours and skipping over people that actually wait is fair? I've read multiple posts on here with people stating similar stories from first hand accounts. Sounds corrupt to me. Unless they are all lying.

Of course, it's fair. People are told when the check-ins are. If someone chooses to stay, that's totally up to them. Last year, I was on the GA line for Bruce in Munich. I arrived found the list, was given my number, and between check-ins I went to the BMW Museum, got a bite to eat, etc.

It's a totally different situation if the band's reps are in charge and everyone is informed of the process by the official fan club and it's monitored and controlled. That isn't the case here.