(UPDATED) Trying to stay out of the Obamacare debate...

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  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    Well, just to give a final update on this cluster fuck. Our insurance policy did indeed terminate on Dec. 31st. When I was finally able to browse the market place plans I saw no policy that was as good as what I had for the same price or cheaper...NONE. They all had either shitty coverage, my doctors weren't in their covered network, and most still had ridiculously high deductibles and max out of pockets.

    I found a couple of plans through BCBS that actually had my wife's doctors in their network and it's a PPO in case we are out of network for some reason we don't have to jump through a bunch of hoops or get stuck paying. The plans I did find were more expensive than what I already had, and the max out of pocket wasn't that much different...not enough to warrant the increase in costs. Again, I didn't mind having a bigger deductible and max out of pocket, because it kept my premiums lower and we hardly use our insurance except for emergencies. A concept that some here didn't quite grasp.

    So as a self employed person, and not wanting to spend even more money than I already was and just generally being pissed off at the way the whole thing has gone down...I took advantage of what was available. I simply stripped mine and my wife's pay. This allowed us to get hundreds of dollars in tax credit towards our insurance. The benefits of which are compounded because A) I just slashed our yearly Tax bill by a lot B) I REALLY slashed my company's payroll tax burden C) I qualify for these tax credits towards our health insurance.

    So now instead of $600 or $700 a month their shitty insurance was going to cost me...I was able to get a better plan and it will cost me about $300 mo. I guess it really pays to be poor?

    The upside is, I have everything I own paid off. I don't need anything. So cutting my pay really doesn't affect us much. I could have paid ourselves less if I wanted. I have plenty of write-offs within my business for the excess cash, and this actually may be a good thing because I can roll a lot of that excess back into the business and help it grow even more. I guess if nothing else...at least we are covered again. We had to jump through a million fucking hoops just to keep some sort of insurance and not pay more and have less benefits than we already did before this stupid shit got started.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    So basically this horrific screw up will also penalize people for improving their station in life by taking away the incentive to increase their salary since they will lose those increases in higher premiums.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    That's a good thing when your main platform is class warfare.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    know1 said:

    So basically this horrific screw up will also penalize people for improving their station in life by taking away the incentive to increase their salary since they will lose those increases in higher premiums.

    DING DING DING --- we have a winner --- That's EXACTLY what it does. I just saw on the news this morning (on CNN) right after I posted my update that there's already reports of people planning on cutting back their hours at work, and possibly even quitting, because the benefits received, they specifically mentioned the tax credit towards healthcare, exceed what they would make in the work place.

    I can't help but think this is some way to make people more dependent...not less dependent...on government. This isn't just helping out for the good of humanity. The way it's structured you have no real incentive to improve your financial standing. I can afford to experiment around with this shit, and not pay myself and see the rewards I reap. So far, in the long run...on paper at least...it appears I will be better off financially by paying myself a pittance than I was when I paid myself a decent salary. Go figure.
  • Shawshank
    Shawshank Posts: 1,018
    Oh and just as an additional update...when I tried to get an updated policy through my last insurance provider, the one that cancelled us, the same policy with the same deductible was going to be almost $1,100 per month!!! Up almost $700 from what I was paying before! Some had mentioned my high deductible / max out of pocket was the problem with my old policy but that is bullshit. I've seen policies in the market place that have up to a $9,500 max on them. No...I found out the real reason my policy got cancelled is that we didn't have some mammogram coverage and something to do with child birth. I would have gladly paid for my wife's fucking mammogram if it meant keeping my insurance...and she can't have kids so we don't need anything more to do with anything related to child birth. It's over now though.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Shawshank said:

    Well, just to give a final update on this cluster fuck. Our insurance policy did indeed terminate on Dec. 31st. When I was finally able to browse the market place plans I saw no policy that was as good as what I had for the same price or cheaper...NONE. They all had either shitty coverage, my doctors weren't in their covered network, and most still had ridiculously high deductibles and max out of pockets.

    I found a couple of plans through BCBS that actually had my wife's doctors in their network and it's a PPO in case we are out of network for some reason we don't have to jump through a bunch of hoops or get stuck paying. The plans I did find were more expensive than what I already had, and the max out of pocket wasn't that much different...not enough to warrant the increase in costs. Again, I didn't mind having a bigger deductible and max out of pocket, because it kept my premiums lower and we hardly use our insurance except for emergencies. A concept that some here didn't quite grasp.

    So as a self employed person, and not wanting to spend even more money than I already was and just generally being pissed off at the way the whole thing has gone down...I took advantage of what was available. I simply stripped mine and my wife's pay. This allowed us to get hundreds of dollars in tax credit towards our insurance. The benefits of which are compounded because A) I just slashed our yearly Tax bill by a lot B) I REALLY slashed my company's payroll tax burden C) I qualify for these tax credits towards our health insurance.

    So now instead of $600 or $700 a month their shitty insurance was going to cost me...I was able to get a better plan and it will cost me about $300 mo. I guess it really pays to be poor?

    The upside is, I have everything I own paid off. I don't need anything. So cutting my pay really doesn't affect us much. I could have paid ourselves less if I wanted. I have plenty of write-offs within my business for the excess cash, and this actually may be a good thing because I can roll a lot of that excess back into the business and help it grow even more. I guess if nothing else...at least we are covered again. We had to jump through a million fucking hoops just to keep some sort of insurance and not pay more and have less benefits than we already did before this stupid shit got started.

    Re. the bolded above, in these economic times, that is probably one of the smartest things a person can do.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    The bolded part, in ANY time, is the smartest thing...even if it takes awhile and some major cutting back.

    Shawshank, glad it worked out for you, finally. My husband pretty much gave up on the clusterfuckery when searching for coverage and is currently without. That is fucking scary. Upside, he's pretty close to getting a position with full coverage.

    Fingers crossed.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    Congressional Budget Office reports that ACA will force 2.5 million jobs out of the work force ... and the White House amazingly put a positive spin on that outcome.

    Over the longer run, CBO finds that because of this law, individuals will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods, like retiring on time rather than working into their elderly years or choosing to spend more time with their families. At the beginning of this year, we noted that as part of this new day in health care, Americans would no longer be trapped in a job just to provide coverage for their families, and would have the opportunity to pursue their dreams.

    So when corporations do mass lay-offs, we can now classify that as corporation setting people free to pursue their dreams????

    forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/02/05/white-house-its-a-good-thing-that-obamacare-will-drive-2-5-million-americans-out-of-the-workforce/?partner=yahootix
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    Jason P said:

    Congressional Budget Office reports that ACA will force 2.5 million jobs out of the work force ... and the White House amazingly put a positive spin on that outcome.

    Over the longer run, CBO finds that because of this law, individuals will be empowered to make choices about their own lives and livelihoods, like retiring on time rather than working into their elderly years or choosing to spend more time with their families. At the beginning of this year, we noted that as part of this new day in health care, Americans would no longer be trapped in a job just to provide coverage for their families, and would have the opportunity to pursue their dreams.

    So when corporations do mass lay-offs, we can now classify that as corporation setting people free to pursue their dreams????

    forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/02/05/white-house-its-a-good-thing-that-obamacare-will-drive-2-5-million-americans-out-of-the-workforce/?partner=yahootix

    Along with decreasing employment (and the incentive thereof), the other big Obama accomplishment:

    He's convinced people that it's not the government's place to ensure everyone has health insurance!!!

    56% of people now believe that to be true vs. 28% when he started this misguided regulation/law/IRS overseer debacle.

    :))

    That's quite an accomplishment. Maybe, he's smarter than we think. Very clever.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    if you think that the conservatives in gov't don't secretly love the ACA you are thinking on the surface. Ins. companies are the big winners, and they fund campaigns it's the same old story. conservatives and liberals alike voted to ban price negotiations for prescription drugs under medicaid part D.

    this is 50 billion a year. given away. by paul ryan, eric cantor, john boehner and many others.

    the "cut welfare and spend on defense" method hasn't been working on the american people since the disillusionment of a decade of unpopular war and a financial collapse followed by bank bailouts for the mega-rich. stunning how closely it mirrors vietnam and the recession of the 70's. what happened next? "liberal" governments that continue to funnel money into corps (banks, oil companies) and give lip service to progressive causes (environmentalism, gender equality) to appease the citizens.

    healthcare today was a great opportunity for both sides of the aisle to find new and growing campaign donors, while affecting change, and taking the heat off the banks and energy guys. who knows whats next, TPP, net neutrality, there's some ugly stuff happening.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • bootlegger10
    bootlegger10 Posts: 16,255
    Chuck Schumer today said the ACA is great because it allows the single mother of 3 to be able to stay home and not work to cover the cost of health care.

    Hmnnn....what about the costs of living? Oh yeah, the government will cover that too.

    But damn those rich people for not paying their fair share!
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    i definitely see your point, but it's a shame the machine is able to make us turn on each other...to side with a greedy billionaire over a struggling single mother.
    we all make mistakes and deal with adversity. I would rather see a billion "welfare mothers" live on the US taxpayer dime, than to see a single billionaire living on the corporate welfare system the way they do.
    if that single mother robs a bank she goes to jail, if the bank owner robs her he gets a million dollar bonus and immunity from indictment.
    the sad thing is people who make between 80k and 500k (the doctors, professionals, and entrepreneurs who REALLY create jobs) get taxed the heaviest to make up the deficit of the truly wealthy and truly poor. sadly they are deluded into thinking "conservatives" will cut their taxes if only the "progressives" will let them. then the tax cuts come through and guess what, the upper middle class gets reamed and both ends get cuts. sad sad sad to see intelligent successful people taking up for the criminals who oppress them
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,546
    bootlegger10 said:

    Chuck Schumer today said the ACA is great because it allows the single mother of 3 to be able to stay home and not work to cover the cost of health care.

    Hmnnn....what about the costs of living? Oh yeah, the government will cover that too.

    But damn those rich people for not paying their fair share!

    3 kids of a single mom who wasn't working would've been covered by Medicaid before ACA, and still would be on medicaid after ACA.
  • grooveme
    grooveme Posts: 353
    The ACA is a bait and switch for most people, allowing them to have insurance, but with such high deductibles that most will pay most of their expenses out of pocket.. For those who are poor enough to qualify for subsidies, this is a good deal seemingly. However, the cheap plans have high deductibles, so they will still end up paying most of their medical expenses out of pocket. I suspect that many if not more folks will end up in the ER for care.

    The rest of us will be paying the same or higher premiums for less coverage.

    The only people who really benefit are people with preexisting conditions. The insurance compaines are passing the cost of their care onto the rest of us.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    edited February 2014
    grooveme said:

    . The insurance compaines are passing the cost of their care onto the rest of us.

    this is a good point.
    i get people being angry at the government, that makes sense, i am too. but not holding the ins company to blame when they choose to drop you rather than add a few inexpensive items to coverage, this makes no sense. in this country the slave takes up for his master when the abolitionist comes to help him. be mad at welfare moms and not welfare billionaires, mistrust black/white people but trust the people who steal your money. we mistrust the govt which, ostensibly at least, is there to take care of us, and we trust in "the market" which corrupts the govt. we are the worst.
    but PJ fans, even blind ones, now theres some hope as long as theres some PJ
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    The White House delayed mandates on business for the second consecutive year. Once again placing the funding of this "law" on the shrinking middle class that is increasingly being "set free" to pursue their dreams.

    Obama's "Year of Action" more resembles "The Summer of George" ....
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Jason P said:

    The White House delayed mandates on business for the second consecutive year. Once again placing the funding of this "law" on the shrinking middle class that is increasingly being "set free" to pursue their dreams.

    Obama's "Year of Action" more resembles "The Summer of George" ....

    Been shaking my head at this. Such piss-poor planning. No business operating like this could continue...could they?

    rgambs - As for the government taking care of us? No thanks and not its intent. I'll take care of myself, thank you.

    At this point, the majority of the people representing us are corrupt by design and in action...kind of - and sadly - reminiscent of the Three Stooges.

  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    If part of the government under a conservative leader had said that losing your job or quitting because you can't afford health insurance would allow you to be free to pursue your dreams, they would be crucified by almost everyone. That comment has gone widely unmentioned.

    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    hedonist said:

    Jason P said:

    The White House delayed mandates on business for the second consecutive year. Once again placing the funding of this "law" on the shrinking middle class that is increasingly being "set free" to pursue their dreams.

    Obama's "Year of Action" more resembles "The Summer of George" ....

    Been shaking my head at this. Such piss-poor planning. No business operating like this could continue...could they?

    rgambs - As for the government taking care of us? No thanks and not its intent. I'll take care of myself, thank you.

    At this point, the majority of the people representing us are corrupt by design and in action...kind of - and sadly - reminiscent of the Three Stooges.

    So you are an anarchist? We don't need a government to protect our rights and lives? I wish humanity could respect each other, and not violate each other's rights but clearly that isn't possible yet. To say you will take care of yourself sounds fine, but it means nothing in a civilization like ours. Every facet of our lives is dominated by the rule of law that the government upholds. We can't get rid of it so we have to make it benefit us.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    rgambs said:

    hedonist said:

    Jason P said:

    The White House delayed mandates on business for the second consecutive year. Once again placing the funding of this "law" on the shrinking middle class that is increasingly being "set free" to pursue their dreams.

    Obama's "Year of Action" more resembles "The Summer of George" ....

    Been shaking my head at this. Such piss-poor planning. No business operating like this could continue...could they?

    rgambs - As for the government taking care of us? No thanks and not its intent. I'll take care of myself, thank you.

    At this point, the majority of the people representing us are corrupt by design and in action...kind of - and sadly - reminiscent of the Three Stooges.

    So you are an anarchist? We don't need a government to protect our rights and lives? I wish humanity could respect each other, and not violate each other's rights but clearly that isn't possible yet. To say you will take care of yourself sounds fine, but it means nothing in a civilization like ours. Every facet of our lives is dominated by the rule of law that the government upholds. We can't get rid of it so we have to make it benefit us.
    An anarchist? No.

    Perhaps I mistakenly took your referenced comment as all-encompassing. Government has certain limited roles - but making personal decisions for me - ie, taking care of us (under the guise of supposed altruism) - is not part of it. I'm pretty sure I know what's best for me, and will take responsibility for my actions AND mistakes, vs. the Keystone-Kop-like dipshits who seem to be in charge.

    I don't think the suck it up mentality in your last sentence would work for me, rgambs. I'd rather change it.

    Now...how to do that? Not sure.

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