Definition of an artist

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Aafke
Aafke Posts: 1,219
edited February 2014 in All Encompassing Trip
What defines an artist (Musician, actor, writer or visual artist) to be one?
I believe there is no closing definition but I would like to hear your opinion about this subject...

I'll give a start:

"The craftsmanship of an artist begins where the craftsmanship of most people end"

Please lets me hear yours.
Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Post edited by Kat on
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Comments

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,660
    I believe art is any form of expression that comes from inside an individual without conscious effort to imitate. Surely most art is influenced by other art and rarely if ever is any form or work of art truly groundbreaking or without influence, but because no one can steal an individual's inner self, all art is unique.

    “If you want to really hurt you parents, and you don't have the nerve to be gay, the least you can do is go into the arts. I'm not kidding. The arts are not a way to make a living. They are a very human way of making life more bearable. Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something.” -Kurt Vonnegut
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    Because it's topical...

    "Yeah, great art is about conflict and pain and guilt and longing and love disguised as sex, and sex disguised as love..." -Lester Bangs in Almost Famous
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Great post Brian. And cool quote as the cherry on top.
    I sat here for a few minutes contemplating my response, and I just dont have the words... (says the self proclaimed writer haha)
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,030
    i love that vonnegut quote.

    i write, i write music part time, but i do not consider myself an artist. mostly because i am not proud of a lot of what i have written.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    brianlux said:

    I believe art is any form of expression that comes from inside an individual without conscious effort to imitate. Surely most art is influenced by other art and rarely if ever is any form or work of art truly groundbreaking or without influence, but because no one can steal an individual's inner self, all art is unique.

    “If you want to really hurt you parents, and you don't have the nerve to be gay, the least you can do is go into the arts. I'm not kidding. The arts are not a way to make a living. They are a very human way of making life more bearable. Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something.” -Kurt Vonnegut

    I do completely agree with you about the fact that all forms off art are an expression off the inner self off the maker. But that isn't my question. I'm looking for the difference between an amateur and an artist.
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,030
    that is easy.

    amateur does not make a living doing their art. professional artist does.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    image
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    edited February 2014
    In theory, you are right, Gimme. Although most artist can't make a living out off it. But I'm looking for the artistic difference between an amateur and an artist, if there is any...
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    I didnt realize the question was about the difference between amateur and professional.
    I'm not sure that really matters either, because now you're getting into how the art is accepted or perceived (not about its inception, its inspiration/influences, or its meaning)

    Rod, i'd agree to a point, but arent there artists who became famous or successful long after their creations were made...even some after they died?
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,030
    good point JP. a lot of the masters were in poverty in life and their pieces sold for millions after they died.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,660
    Aafke said:

    In theory, you are right, Gimme. Although most artist can't make a living out off it. But I'm looking for the artistic difference between an amateur and an artist, if there is any...

    I'm not sure there is one.

    am·a·teur: a person who engages in a pursuit... on an unpaid basis.

    The amazing jazz pianist, Cecil Taylor spent much of his productive years making money (meager earning, he was quite poor then) washing dishing despite having made some recordings. So technically he was, early on, an amateur but all of his recordings are, without a doubt, great works of art.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    edited February 2014
    This subject is an old one for me. It started twenty years ago. It started on a art academy. So therefor the definision was quite speciffic, if you can't live from your art, do you have the right to call yourself an artist? The definition I started this tread with, was one that I could remember, from back than. While most off those students from back than, can't live from their art, and have other jobs to make a living, most off them still consider themselves artists. Making a living out off it therefor is probably not a great definition. Maybe the only difference between an amateur and an artist is the attempt off making a living out off art. ;)
    Post edited by Aafke on
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    Aafke said:

    This subject is an old one for me. It started twenty years ago. It started on a art academy. So therefor the definision was quite speciffic, if you can't live from your art, do you have the right to call yourself an artist? The definition I started this tread with, was one that I could remember, from back than. While most off those students from back than, can't live from their art, and have other jobs to make a living, most off them still consider themselves artists. Making a living out off it therefor is probably not a great definition. Maybe the only difference between an amateur and an artist is the attempt off making a living out off art. ;)

    I dont think there's a specific way to define it in these terms. You just got me thinking though -- of possibly the amount of time and dedication the artist has invested in their art (perhaps)... I'd say its up to the individual how they classify themselves. I wrote a novel and I consider myself an amateur. I paint sometimes...amateur....but I am also a musician...also amateur...but I have aspirations of being a professional writer. But I have a lot to learn and I need to become more dedicated to it before that will ever happen.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    I do agree with you, every person has its own definition off what makes someone an artist. That's what I like about the subject. I do like to debate, and sharpen my own definition, while doing so.
    I'm sure we wouldn't find a definition everyone agrees with. Luckily...

    The subject came up for me again, when i started posting some off my visual pieces on this forum. When I was kicked out of the art academy, I decided, that I wasn't gonna be an artist after all. So I have found myself an other way off earning a living. But the need to express myself visually remained. without being arrogant, I do have some talent for it. But I don't feel the need to make a living out off it. As for my poetry, Amateur for shore... But for the visual arts, I don't know, just yet...
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,289
    this ...

    image
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Hey! I didn't know it took nerve to be gay :D

    I'm not sure "making a living off of it" is a fair assessment of being an artist. Someone can be a baker but not choose that path as a career. Same could be said for writing, painting, and on.

    Anyway...calling oneself anything is that person's prerogative. Hell, I've heard "musicians" call themselves such when they can barely sing without technical assistance.

    Good thread, by the way!
  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    The debate is amateur artist vs. professional artist. One makes a living, but they are both artists. A sports car vs. a broke down car. They are still both cars, no? Art is no less art if it's tucked away in some attic or if it's hanging in the Louvre. Same for the artist. Emily Dickinson, Vincent van Gogh, both artists, but neither appreciated during their lifetimes.
  • Aafke
    Aafke Posts: 1,219
    Hobbes said:

    The debate is amateur artist vs. professional artist. One makes a living, but they are both artists. A sports car vs. a broke down car. They are still both cars, no? Art is no less art if it's tucked away in some attic or if it's hanging in the Louvre. Same for the artist. Emily Dickinson, Vincent van Gogh, both artists, but neither appreciated during their lifetimes.

    True, but what has made that Dickinson and van Gogh, now a days, are seen as great artist, but others out off their days, who maybe tried as hard as they did, are completely forgotten by now?
    Waves_zps6b028461.jpg
    "The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
    "Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
  • Hobbes
    Hobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,438
    Yes, they are great artists and the others, unknown artists. Both still artists. It is the secondary element of the viewer that decides what is great art and what is not. By this, one could say that art is a shared experience, artist and viewer. But the artist is just that, an artist.
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    edited February 2014
    Interesting discussion.

    To me, if you like to create, you are an artist. That's all.

    Otherwise, I really dislike labels. So I tell people that I enjoy creating lots of things.

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