What's a living wage?

pjhawks · December 2013

unsung wrote:

I agree with all of that except the mandatory living wage, but because I believe the market would fix the wage situation.

Kudos for being the only person to at least offer a living wage number.

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

if you are making $9.00 an hour you pretty much have to buy what is the cheapest price as opposed to quality goods. you can't have it both ways.

polaris_x · December 2013

unsung wrote:

I agree with all of that except the mandatory living wage, but because I believe the market would fix the wage situation.

Kudos for being the only person to at least offer a living wage number.

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

the problem is that you so readily say the fat cats will get theirs regardless and rail against people making peanuts ... i don't see you posting about ceo's that get million dollar bonuses for driving their company into the ground!? ...

this mythological belief in "market forces" is ridiculous ... you know very well that "market forces" are currently at play in the US ... and what do you have ... a devastated economy where the rich get richer and everyone wants everything cheap ...

unsung · December 2013

Government price fixing and wage fixing is not the answer.

If the CEO is abusive then don't spend your money there. I haven't been to walmart since 1996. The last two items I bought were made in USA t-shirt and sweatshirt, and I still have both. The company now makes their sweatshirts in Mexico and the quality has suffered. So I no longer spend my money there or buy that company. We have the power.

polaris_x · December 2013

please come up with examples of where your ideal structure plays out ...

again - why is it that the countries that have the highest standards of living and quality of life all are based on a social infrastructure that supports everyone?

brianlux · December 2013

unsung wrote:

I agree with all of that except the mandatory living wage, but because I believe the market would fix the wage situation.

Kudos for being the only person to at least offer a living wage number.

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

I may sometimes disagree with you, unsung, but I for one have never thought of you as a troll.

know1 · December 2013

unsung wrote:

Let's be honest, corporate fat cats are going to get their cut no matter what. It's irrelevant if their minions make $5/hr or $50/hr, they won't suffer.

Yes I do believe that someone that has invested in themselves should earn more than someone who is 40 and flips burgers part time. I don't think of them as lesser humans, but they don't have skills, and their pay directly reflects that.

If Walmart offered $1/hr would people work there?

If Walmart offered $5/hr would people work there?

So Walmart offers $8/hr (fed min wage iirc) and the jobs fill.

But why? Why does $8 get what $5 can't? Because that's what they can get away with by law. People take those jobs because they know that's all that has to be offered. But I'm asking what if. What if there were no min wage? I think we can agree that nobody would work for $1/hr. What if people held out together for $10/hr? Guess what, Walmart would be forced to pay it. The way it works now all they have to do is offer the min and say take it or leave it.

If there were no min wage the employees would have the bargaining chip because they could hold out for better pay. With the min wage the company has the power, and feels that's all they have to offer. The market works better for the worker when the worker is holding the cards.

Wow. Common sense.

know1 · December 2013

If you want to come up with a living wage, it would stand to reason you should first come up with how much money it takes to live.

Of course, there are people with many more children to support than others, so that becomes difficult as well.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · December 2013

unsung wrote:

Of course since I'm of the opposite thought I'm a troll. Ah labels, the sign that the argument is lost.

I believe our economy would right itself if people demanded quality made in USA goods instead of demanding the cheapest price.

as to your first statement, I said that because it seemed like all you were doing was feeding an argument for the sake of arguing.

as to your second statement, I couldn't agree more.

lukin2006 · December 2013

So defined skills in some peoples eyes are if your holding a degree, diploma or trade licence ... pretty narrow view if must say. Some people never can catch a break but have plenty of skill, it may not be a higher education, but many do have a skill. These corporations should be able to share their billions in profits with their employees. Really why do CEO's need millions and billions to live off of, why? Why can Costco pay around $21 an hour, Apple retail makes around $15 ... so if these retail companies can make an effort why can't Wal Mart and Mc Donalds?

Unless your a highly skilled person with skills that are in high demand I suggest that those here who possess a college degree that aren't in those jobs might want to get off there high horse, your probably replaceable. My cousin is a tool and die maker he worked at places that saw his jobs shipped overseas.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · December 2013

unsung wrote:

Yes I do believe that someone that has invested in themselves should earn more than someone who is 40 and flips burgers part time. I don't think of them as lesser humans, but they don't have skills, and their pay directly reflects that.

it's not always that simple. some people have the necessary skills, they just don't have the formal training as those all important designation letters behind their name, which is so over-valued in today's business world it's stupid.

lukin2006 · December 2013

Then if there was no minimum wage ... those that want no minimum wage would bitch and moan about those people being on welfare, food stamps and living in government housing while those corporations make billions in profits. So I guess those who want no minimum wage want the burden shifted from the corporations to the taxpayer ... why?

even flow - question mark · December 2013

unsung wrote:

If the CEO is abusive then don't spend your money there.

You must be one of those groovy people that get paid cash for a living. No bank needed for you, eh!

I'm starting to think that Bush or Chaney are bored in retirement, like PJ and come to visit their board every once in a while.

unsung · December 2013

lukin2006 wrote:

Then if there was no minimum wage ... those that want no minimum wage would bitch and moan about those people being on welfare, food stamps and living in government housing while those corporations make billions in profits. So I guess those who want no minimum wage want the burden shifted from the corporations to the taxpayer ... why?

Many already are. A higher minimum wage won't change that.

unsung · December 2013

Instead of demanding a min wage hike you all should be demanding that the federal reserve stop devaluing the currency through endless quantitative easing and buying bad debt and bailing out banks.

know1 · December 2013

brianlux wrote:

Another way to look at this would be for us to stop supporting toxic fast "food" road kill "restaurants" and reduce our frivolous spending in general and specifically cease our purchasing of cheap worthless plastic shit from places like Walmart and put more people to work doing something useful. And, of course, at the very least, pay everyone a living wage.

People will say, "But the poor need places like Walmart." I disagree. Durable items last longer, impact the planet less and cost less in the long run. Let's teach people how to shop wisely and responsibly. We don't need no stinkin' Walmart!

Who "puts more people to work doing something useful"? How does that happen?

unsung · December 2013

Cosmo wrote:

...
Can I ask... What do you do for a living?
Why can't your company... the entire market slash your high wages and hire some that is capable of doing your job... for a lot less money?
I am certain that you are not at the top of your field and there are many others willing to wdo the same work.. for less pay.

Certain, are you? Well I'm not divulging my personal information.

I will say that I am highly trained in a sector that the safety of the public is dependent on my diagnostic skills. We have oversight from a multitude of federal agencies. I am subject to FBI background checks on a continual basis, scrutinized by federal departments that verify my qualifications, subject to continual drug testing, psychological exams, interviews by people that are paid to find character flaws, and subject to search at any time while on company property by an armed security force.

You want to farm that out to the lowest bidder? Good luck.

jethrojam420 · December 2013

In MA I would say the lowest living wage with no children would be 10 per hour, and up 2 per hour per kid. And, I assure you, that is the lowest possible no frills life with no government help.

I think to live the American dream you would need a minimum of 30 per hour total (about 62k per year) would be needed per family (and up 3 per child)

I know this much because my family total is about 80k and although we bought a house and have 2 car loans and are treading water at best with one child. Perhaps with a bit more effort we could do a bit better savings wise but its not that easy with a toddler.

For the record I have no degree, and neither does my wife. But, though hard hard work, and maybe a little bit of luck, we both work for companies that pay a living wage. But we started somewhere and I assure you, working for minimum wage was no fun. To put it in a Pearl Jam sense, since this is a 10c board, my membership lapsed in the mid 2000's due to living on a minimum wage salary. So yes, minimum wage is not enough to be happy.

jethrojam420 · December 2013

unsung wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
Can I ask... What do you do for a living?
Why can't your company... the entire market slash your high wages and hire some that is capable of doing your job... for a lot less money?
I am certain that you are not at the top of your field and there are many others willing to wdo the same work.. for less pay.

Certain, are you? Well I'm not divulging my personal information.

I will say that I am highly trained in a sector that the safety of the public is dependent on my diagnostic skills. We have oversight from a multitude of federal agencies. I am subject to FBI background checks on a continual basis, scrutinized by federal departments that verify my qualifications, subject to continual drug testing, psychological exams, interviews by people that are paid to find character flaws, and subject to search at any time while on company property by an armed security force.

You want to farm that out to the lowest bidder? Good luck.

I don't think Cosmo was implying you don't deserve what you get, rather that there is a stack of applications in your boss's desk saying there are many who want it, and will, perhaps, do it for less. Because they are probably less qualified than you is why you get to stay. Same with just about every other job in the world.

backseatLover12 · December 2013

jethrojam420 wrote:

unsung wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
Can I ask... What do you do for a living?
Why can't your company... the entire market slash your high wages and hire some that is capable of doing your job... for a lot less money?
I am certain that you are not at the top of your field and there are many others willing to wdo the same work.. for less pay.

Certain, are you? Well I'm not divulging my personal information.

I will say that I am highly trained in a sector that the safety of the public is dependent on my diagnostic skills. We have oversight from a multitude of federal agencies. I am subject to FBI background checks on a continual basis, scrutinized by federal departments that verify my qualifications, subject to continual drug testing, psychological exams, interviews by people that are paid to find character flaws, and subject to search at any time while on company property by an armed security force.

You want to farm that out to the lowest bidder? Good luck.

I don't think Cosmo was implying you don't deserve what you get, rather that there is a stack of applications in your boss's desk saying there are many who want it, and will, perhaps, do it for less. Because they are probably less qualified than you is why you get to stay. Same with just about every other job in the world.

I interpreted it the same as you. Unsung would probably be singing a different tune if his position was terminated in favor of employing a person who may not have the skills but willing to do the job for less pay, and that is what the employer is looking for. Employers do this all the time. They get rid of the higher paid professional because they cost the company... This happens all the time actually...

Hugh Freaking Dillon · December 2013

unsung wrote:

Certain, are you? Well I'm not divulging my personal information.

I will say that I am highly trained in a sector that the safety of the public is dependent on my diagnostic skills. We have oversight from a multitude of federal agencies. I am subject to FBI background checks on a continual basis, scrutinized by federal departments that verify my qualifications, subject to continual drug testing, psychological exams, interviews by people that are paid to find character flaws, and subject to search at any time while on company property by an armed security force.

this is you??? cool!

What's a living wage?

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