Vs. Vinyl - Sound quality

calvo17 · November 2013

I got my first turntable about two months ago and bought Vs on vinyl (remastered) and the Ten Super Deluxe package. However, I feel very dissapointed since the sound of both Vs and Ten Remastered is far from what I thought it would be. It's too low and not clear at all. My turntable is a new AudioTehcnica lp120. I've tried playing both records on another turntable and they sound the same. Has anybody had the same issue?

Thanks!

KC225404 · November 2013

Do you have the preamp turned on/off, depending on your receiver? Ie- off if you're using a phono input, on if you're using a line input?

RoleModelsinBlood31 · November 2013

Welcome to the work of PJ vinyl. Unfortunately I've found that when compared to other pressings the recordings are digital then pressed and not analog. Therefore the sound engineer has pressed music destined for cd or wave or mp3 or something into a format which needs its own mastering, different from the digital stuff.

You'll see a lot of threads on the forum on this topic or at least people's comments within vinyl related threads.

I find that as a person who spins vinyl, my no code and yield pressings and original vitalogy all sound better than the 10, vs, vitalogy, backspacer and LB, although LB (my second copy) is pretty good too. Not sure if anyone else would agree, but for me considering those above, my vault #3 vinyl is the best sounding of the recent releases.

calvo17 · November 2013

KC225404 wrote:

Do you have the preamp turned on/off, depending on your receiver? Ie- off if you're using a phono input, on if you're using a line input?

The pre amp is built in, and I don't recall it having an on/off switch (I don't have the turntable in front of me unfortunately) I did switch the selector to line, not phone. Then I connected the RCA cables to the back of my stereo, to use the stereo's speakers. Other records do sound very loud using the same connection.

calvo17 · November 2013

RoleModelsinBlood31 wrote:

Welcome to the work of PJ vinyl. Unfortunately I've found that when compared to other pressings the recordings are digital then pressed and not analog. Therefore the sound engineer has pressed music destined for cd or wave or mp3 or something into a format which needs its own mastering, different from the digital stuff.

You'll see a lot of threads on the forum on this topic or at least people's comments within vinyl related threads.

I find that as a person who spins vinyl, my no code and yield pressings and original vitalogy all sound better than the 10, vs, vitalogy, backspacer and LB, although LB (my second copy) is pretty good too. Not sure if anyone else would agree, but for me considering those above, my vault #3 vinyl is the best sounding of the recent releases.

That really sucks!!!!!!!

KC225404 · November 2013

calvo17 wrote:

KC225404 wrote:

Do you have the preamp turned on/off, depending on your receiver? Ie- off if you're using a phono input, on if you're using a line input?

The pre amp is built in, and I don't recall it having an on/off switch (I don't have the turntable in front of me unfortunately) I did switch the selector to line, not phone. Then I connected the RCA cables to the back of my stereo, to use the stereo's speakers. Other records do sound very loud using the same connection.

Apologies you're correct- not on off but phono/line. If you are using the AUX in of your receiver (or any other line input) then you have it correct. Worth double checking, though if your other records sound fine I doubt that's the issue.

As Rolemodels noted, the mastering/pressing process varies by recording. I'll have to give those a spin again!

RoleModelsinBlood31 · November 2013

Yeah, it definitely is a bummer. Especially for a band that preaches vinyl! I don't know though, I still love the stuff I have of theirs but the freaking reissues definitely surprised me. I have both the original vitalogy that I found in a shop back in the day and the reissue and unfortunately the original skips in one song but it sounds really different than the reissue.

Other people know way more about this shit than me so hopefully they can help you out.

I'm always just surprised though, because I went to a record convention here in Austin a month ago and got a crapload of stuff- one album I got for a buck was Talking Heads Stop Making Sense from 1984 the original and it is just amazing sound. Makes me wonder why 29 years later they can't make em sound like that.

luismota123 · November 2013

calvo17 wrote:

I got my first turntable about two months ago and bought Vs on vinyl (remastered) and the Ten Super Deluxe package. However, I feel very dissapointed since the sound of both Vs and Ten Remastered is far from what I thought it would be. It's too low and not clear at all. My turntable is a new AudioTehcnica lp120. I've tried playing both records on another turntable and they sound the same. Has anybody had the same issue?

Thanks!

Since your new at turntable, like me, there could be several other factors...for one your setup. I've owned a lp60 for a few weeks and it sounded like crap on my setup. I bought a used vintage sansei, replaced the cartridge and it sounds awesome. Albums I thought that had bad pressings sounded better over the lp60. I did some research on it and on the lp60 the line level only sends out 150mv and my system prefers at least 250mv. Don't know if that helps, but there are a lot of factors to turntables and setup that could be affecting your sound.

Have you done a comparison on the cd vs vinyl on your system?
That would be a better gauge on if it's the vinyl mastering or system.

You could have a bad pressing also.

PG98467 · November 2013

calvo17 wrote:

I got my first turntable about two months ago and bought Vs on vinyl (remastered) and the Ten Super Deluxe package. However, I feel very dissapointed since the sound of both Vs and Ten Remastered is far from what I thought it would be. It's too low and not clear at all. My turntable is a new AudioTehcnica lp120. I've tried playing both records on another turntable and they sound the same. Has anybody had the same issue?

Thanks!

Yep, the reissues sound awful.

PatrickBateman · November 2013

I have the LP120 and put a Shure m97xe cartridge, set antiskate, alignment, and tracking going into a Yamaha receiver with "pure direct" and dedicated phono input. So far, I have found that No Code and Lost Dogs sound phenomenal, LB sounds great (the songs that didnt skip anyway), and PJ20 sounds like poo poo. I have original VS and others that I will have to spin again soon.

My Fathers Son on vinyl with headphones was like a whole different song...Jeff's bass really stands out

calvo17 · November 2013

luismota123 wrote:

calvo17 wrote:

I got my first turntable about two months ago and bought Vs on vinyl (remastered) and the Ten Super Deluxe package. However, I feel very dissapointed since the sound of both Vs and Ten Remastered is far from what I thought it would be. It's too low and not clear at all. My turntable is a new AudioTehcnica lp120. I've tried playing both records on another turntable and they sound the same. Has anybody had the same issue?

Thanks!

Since your new at turntable, like me, there could be several other factors...for one your setup. I've owned a lp60 for a few weeks and it sounded like crap on my setup. I bought a used vintage sansei, replaced the cartridge and it sounds awesome. Albums I thought that had bad pressings sounded better over the lp60. I did some research on it and on the lp60 the line level only sends out 150mv and my system prefers at least 250mv. Don't know if that helps, but there are a lot of factors to turntables and setup that could be affecting your sound.

Have you done a comparison on the cd vs vinyl on your system?
That would be a better gauge on if it's the vinyl mastering or system.

You could have a bad pressing also.

That's right, compared to the cds, the cds are definitely way muuuuuch clearer, louder, brighter and more solid than the vinyl.

calvo17 · November 2013

PatrickBateman wrote:

I have the LP120 and put a Shure m97xe cartridge, set antiskate, alignment, and tracking going into a Yamaha receiver with "pure direct" and dedicated phono input. So far, I have found that No Code and Lost Dogs sound phenomenal, LB sounds great (the songs that didnt skip anyway), and PJ20 sounds like poo poo. I have original VS and others that I will have to spin again soon.

My Fathers Son on vinyl with headphones was like a whole different song...Jeff's bass really stands out

I also thought about replacing the cartridge, but I'm totally new on this so I wonder if I will end up screwing the thing up... At least I know now, with your advice, which could be a good replacement. Thanks

aurynsdad · November 2013

PatrickBateman wrote:

I have the LP120 and put a Shure m97xe cartridge, set antiskate, alignment, and tracking going into a Yamaha receiver with "pure direct" and dedicated phono input. So far, I have found that No Code and Lost Dogs sound phenomenal, LB sounds great (the songs that didnt skip anyway), and PJ20 sounds like poo poo. I have original VS and others that I will have to spin again soon.

My Fathers Son on vinyl with headphones was like a whole different song...Jeff's bass really stands out

I'm jealous.

lolobugg · November 2013

I have to agree 100%.
Sounds like the reissues were mastered from the digital recording.
You can even tell the difference between the live show that came with the Ten Deluxe edition and the studio albums.
Studio albums sound extremely flat. No dynamics. It is unfortunate that they didn't take the time to do this right. Especially considering the price that some of the originals are going for.
Backspacer sounded OK I guess. Still waiting on LB.

I have to agree that the Vault #3 sounds amazing. Best thing they have released on wax in a long time!!!

Technical stuff: I have a Denon table with a Shure 97x cartridge. Makes most recordings jump.

calvo17 · November 2013

lolobugg wrote:

I have to agree 100%.
Sounds like the reissues were mastered from the digital recording.
You can even tell the difference between the live show that came with the Ten Deluxe edition and the studio albums.

Exactly!! Drop in the Park sounds very clean. Even the Remixed Ten sounds a thousand times better than the Remastered one.

Cob · November 2013

I'm pretty sure Ten and Vs were originally recorded on analog, I have two import copies of the original pressings and they sound great, they sound so great I would never buy the re issues. As for the re issues I'm not sure how they were done, but if they were never originally recorded digital, they can not be digital re master from the digital master recordings as I don't think they were recorded digitally originally, but I may be wrong.

DewieCox · November 2013

Cob wrote:

I'm pretty sure Ten and Vs were originally recorded on analog, I have two import copies of the original pressings and they sound great, they sound so great I would never buy the re issues. As for the re issues I'm not sure how they were done, but if they were never originally recorded digital, they can not be digital re master from the digital master recordings as I don't think they were recorded digitally originally, but I may be wrong.

They recorded to tape through Riot Act. I think LB is the first album to have a separate mastering credit for the vinyl and cd, but it's honestly underwhelming after you see that credit.

To me, everything sounds like the same master is put on all formats. Don't have an early Ten, but a reissue from Holland. The middle albums, No Code-Riot Act, have a little enhanced vibe, but not so much that they scream that they're fully analog.

As long as nothing sounds as bad as S/T or Backspacer, I'll be fine. They should probably quit preaching about vinyl if they're not gonna do it right though.

lolobugg · November 2013

Cob wrote:

I'm pretty sure Ten and Vs were originally recorded on analog, I have two import copies of the original pressings and they sound great, they sound so great I would never buy the re issues. As for the re issues I'm not sure how they were done, but if they were never originally recorded digital, they can not be digital re master from the digital master recordings as I don't think they were recorded digitally originally, but I may be wrong.

I should i been more specific and said the digital master (not recording). It was probably recorded to tape but back in the early 90s almost all major label albums were mastered for digital(as vinyl was a considered a dead format). The CDs were manufactered from the digital master and then they did ADA conversion for the cassette version which is probably the same version used on the original vinyl.

Sometimes the "Remasters" are just some minor manipulation thru compression, etc.Unless they sought out that cassette version or went back and actually remastered the original tapes(def possible). Even then I think it was just remastered with digital in mind. Not sure why the Brendan O'brien remix would have sounded so bad unless he just did one master for both CD and vinyl formats. again this is all speculation on my part. I just know like many of you, my ears can definitely hear the difference as I own all of the early vinyl too.

I really enjoy and prefer the analog format and am glad it is making a "comeback". The only drawback being that when I stopped buying wax between 2003-2006 I missed out on Lost Dogs and Avocado. I paid thru the nose for LD but can't bring myself to shell out $300 for Avocado especially in light of some of the audio reviews I have seen on this forum.

Vs. Vinyl - Sound quality

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