(UPDATED) Trying to stay out of the Obamacare debate...

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  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Jason P wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    So are the cancelled policies automatically reinstated and if so, at their previous rates?
    No.
    Damn.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    Tea terrorist Ted Cruz "shut down" the government because he wanted to compromise and delay the individual mandate for a year ...

    Oh, sweet irony ...
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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    This move by the President is illegal, for a constitutional law man he sure forgot a lot.


    And yes, he just vindicated everything Ted Cruz did.
  • unsung wrote:
    This move by the President is illegal, for a constitutional law man he sure forgot a lot.


    And yes, he just vindicated everything Ted Cruz did.

    what "move"?
    are we talking about ACA in general or something just happened?
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  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    unsung wrote:
    This move by the President is illegal, for a constitutional law man he sure forgot a lot.


    And yes, he just vindicated everything Ted Cruz did.


    "there he goes again.

    when his policies fail, president obama ignores the law. he delayed the employer mandate on his own: now he's trying to fix an insurance market that he broke by ignoring the laws he wrote.

    that's not how a democracy works. he's a president not a king.

    enough is enough. it's time to delay the individual mandate.

    the Obama administration can't restore cancelled insurance policies, and can't fix the obamacare website fast enough to save the market.

    because of aca, millions of americans have had their health insurance policies canceled. millions more will be left uninsured and in violation of federal law - through no fault of their own."

    - Mr. Jay Sekulow
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Obamacare is a disaster.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    2 days ago: "oh noes, lots of folks are losing their shitty insurance"

    yesterday: Obamz sez insurance companies can continue to sell shitty insurance

    today: "oh noes, I'm so upset, he didn't follow the constitution"

    me: ha ha ha fuckin ha... :lol:
  • http://www.openmarket.org/2013/11/15/il ... -policies/

    If aliens from outer space read today’s newspapers, they would assume that America is a dictatorship, not a republic, and that President Obama has the authority to pass and repeal laws all by himself, though executive decree.

    Writing about President Obama’s decision to allow insurers to temporarily reissue certain policies cancelled due to the Affordable Care Act, The Washington Post stated, “President Obama relented to pressure from the public and his own party Thursday and changed one of the bedrock requirements of the new health-care law to fulfill his promise to allow people to keep their insurance plans if they want.” But as every schoolchild used to be taught, Presidents cannot “change” the “bedrock requirements” of a federal law, only Congress can, since only it has the power to pass and repeal legislation. For a bill to become law, or for a law to be repealed, legislation must first pass both Houses of Congress before the President can act on it.

    The president’s change in the law is plainly illegal, as Eugene Kontorovich, who teaches constitutional law at Northwestern University, has noted. As Kontorovich points out, President Obama’s change does not simply suspend requirements imposed on insurers, but also imposes “new obligations” on insurers that seek to take advantage of the waiver, something that is quintessentially legislative, rather than executive, in character. Thus, even if Obama had the statutory authority to suspend ACA requirements to allow insurers to continue offering plans that do not meet the new law’s requirements (no statutory authority was cited in yesterday’s letter announcing the change), he lacks the ability to condition such waivers on criteria imposed by executive fiat.


    While the change is illegal, it doesn’t really do much for people’s whose insurance policies have been cancelled, since the conditions attached to it, and other features of the change, are so onerous that most insurers won’t find it feasible to reissue cancelled policies. Basically, it is designed to give the president an excuse to scapegoat insurers.

    As Professor Kontorovich notes,

    President Obama in his speech on “fixing” the Affordable Care Act today did not specify what statutory authority, if any, he thinks authorizes him to make such dictats. Given the gargantuan length of the ObamaCare statute, he might still be looking. . . the Chief Executive has some room to decide how strongly to enforce a law, and the timing of enforcement. But here, Obama is apparently suspending the enforcement of a law for a year – simply to head off actual legislation not to his liking. Congress is working on legislation quite similar to the president’s fix, but with differences he considers objectionable. This further demonstrates the primarily legislative nature of the fix. Indeed, the fix goes far beyond “non-enforcement” because it requires insurers to take certain new action to enjoy the delay. This is thus not simply a delay, but a new law. The “fix” amounts to new legislation – but enacted without Congress. The President has no constitutional authority to rewrite statutes, especially in ways that impose new obligations on people, and that is what the fix seems to entail. And of course, this is not the first such extra-statutory suspension of key ObamaCare provisions.

    Law professor Jonathan H. Adler also observes that Obama’s change was done in a way that is illegal. Nicholas Bagley reviews relevant law and finds that “the administrative fix may be vulnerable to even sharper claims of illegality than the delay of the employer mandate.”

    Although the change is illegal, it won’t affect a substantial percentage of cancelled insurance policies. Cancelled policies will mostly stay cancelled. At The Washington Post‘s Wonkblog, Robert Laszewksi explains why:

    This means that the insurance companies have 32 days to reprogram their computer systems for policies, rates, and eligibility, send notices to the policyholders via US Mail, send a very complex letter that describes just what the differences are between specific policies and Obamacare compliant plans, ask the consumer for their decision — and give them a reasonable time to make that decision — and then enter those decisions back into their systems without creating massive billing, claim payment, and provider eligibility list mistakes.

    The Washington Post‘s Sarah Kliff, who has sometimes served as a cheerleader for Obamacare in the past, considers insurers’ dilemma as a result of the change:

    nsurers are in a bit of a tricky spot. It will look pretty bad if they don’t allow people to keep enrolling in their 2013 plans; as the president said, its a whole lot harder to blame the cancellations on Obamacare. But if they do allow that to go forward, it could screw up the risk pool in the new insurance marketplaces by letting the younger and healthy people (who would likely stick with their skimpier plans) stay out of the exchange. They’d essentially be siphoning off the exact same customers they were hoping to woo into the exchanges.

    Professor Adler suggests that the change may be a legal bait-and-switch that fools insurers into reissuing policies with limits that later can’t be enforced, and are deemed illegal, based on language in the Affordable Care Act:

    [T]he Administration is not changing the law. It’s just announcing it will not enforce federal law (while simultaneously threatening to veto legislation that would authorize the step the President has decided to take).

    Does this make the renewal of non-compliant policies legal? No. The legal requirement remains on the books so the relevant health insurance plans remain illegal under federal law. The President’s decision does not change relevant state laws either. So insurers will still need to obtain approval from state insurance commissioners. This typically requires submitting rates and plan specifications for approval. This can take some time, and is disruptive because most insurance companies have already set their offerings for the next year. It’s no wonder that some insurance commissioners have already indicated they have no plans to approve non-compliant plans.

    Yet even if state commissioners approve the plans, they will still be illegal under federal law. Given this fact, why would any insurance company agree to renew such a plan? It’s nice that regulators may forbear enforcing the relevant regulatory requirements, but this is not the only source of potential legal jeopardy. So, for instance, what happens when there’s a legal dispute under one of these policies? Say, for instance, an insurance company denies payment for something that is not covered under the policy but that would have been covered under the PPACA and the insured sues? Would an insurance company really want to have to defend this decision in court? After all, this would place the insurance company in the position of seeking judicial enforcement of an illegal insurance policy. If there’s an answer to this, I haven’t seen it.

    Obama may pay a price for scapegoating insurers. As Reason magazine’s Peter Suderman points out, the administration needs the cooperation of insurance companies if the law is going to succeed:

    Obama is creating a long-term policy problem in order to solve a short-term political problem. Even if this temporarily reduces some of today’s political pressure, those long-term policy problems will rebound to create additional political problems as time goes by. Premiums will rise, and if consumer demand turns out to be lower than expected as a result, plans may withdraw from the market. At the same time, insurers, who have been targeted by the administration for blame and had their assurances about the state of the law (and thus their business plan) upended, will be less likely to cooperate with the administration. They are already frustrated with the administration, and this will hasten the break between them. The opposition of insurers will add a new layer of opposition that the administration must contend with in order to make the law—which is built around the goal of making insurance coverage accessible—work.

    The Heritage Foundation says the president’s action is an illegal ”PR” move:

    President Obama has told Obamacare’s critics that the law is “settled” and “here to stay.” But today he is saying he’ll violate the law to put a Band-Aid on it for another year. That’s in addition to the one-year delay in the employer mandate and numerous other “fixes” and delays.

    The President is announcing his “fix” to the problem of millions of canceled policies: According to press reports, the President’s “plan would allow people to keep their plans into 2014,” by allowing the sale of insurance plans that don’t meet the law’s new requirements.

    There’s one problem—the President’s promise that his new “plan” can allow people to keep their plans is just as flawed and false as his original “like your plan/keep it” pledge. The law itself is clear: Obamacare’s new benefit mandates—the requirement to cover all individuals with pre-existing conditions, the new “essential benefits,” and mandates increasing the percentage of health costs insurance plans must cover—all take effect on January 1, 2014.

    The National Review’s Rich Lowry also questions the legality of the administrative “fix”:

    In attempting to stem the panic of congressional Democrats, Obama has thrown the insurers who had bought into Obamacare under the bus, a move that itself could harm the law’s long term prospects. He has once again acted unilaterally and (presumably) lawlessly rather than going to Congress, but he has undercut his own spin that Obamacare is the immutable “law of the land” and in his press conference, admitted that many of the law’s failures are on him rather than the result of Republican sabotage. We’ll see now whether the president has at least stabilized his position on Capitol Hill. Regardless, a bad day for him and the law.

    Bloomberg News’ Ramesh Ponnuru expects the change to only make the law worse:

    In recent weeks, proponents of Obamacare have been arguing that we shouldn’t make too much of its early troubles, because President George W. Bush’s prescription-drug program saw early fumbles, too. (The people behind Obamacare may not be good at building websites, but they’re great at manufacturing excuses.) It’s perverse, of course, to suggest that the difficulties of a smaller, far less complex program are a good omen for Obamacare. But the bigger problem is that Obamacare is vulnerable to adverse selection in a way that Bush’s program was not.

    Slate’s David Weigel, no fan of the GOP, agrees with it that the President’s unilateral change ”won’t restore all the canceled plans. Republicans (and anyone who’s talked to any insurer, ever) know this is not the case. After this week, Republicans will be able to react to any new stories about canceled plans by pointing out that, hey, they wanted to fix this, but the president arrogantly refused them and went with his own plan.”

    If unilateral administrative “fixes” were legal, there are lots of other things about Obamacare that are even worse and cry out to be fixed. The Affordable Care Act contains massive marriage penalties that discriminate against married people, and huge work disincentives for some older workers. It has slashed hiring, cut economic growth, and induced employers to replace full-time workers with part-time employees, driving even unions that once backed it to seek its repeal or replacement. And its medical device tax has caused layoffs by medical manufacturers.
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  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    If we found out that aliens from outer space were reading our newspapers... wouldn't that be a bigger news story than Obamacare?
    ...
    I know it wouldn't be bigger than Kardashian news... but, I'm pretty sure it would make front page news... just below the Kardahian news item about them buying solid gold toilet paper.
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  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    inmytree wrote:
    2 days ago: "oh noes, lots of folks are losing their shitty insurance"

    yesterday: Obamz sez insurance companies can continue to sell shitty insurance

    today: "oh noes, I'm so upset, he didn't follow the constitution"

    me: ha ha ha fuckin ha... :lol:


    The executive branch is not supposed to make laws, otherwise he might as well be King.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    inmytree wrote:
    2 days ago: "oh noes, lots of folks are losing their shitty insurance"

    yesterday: Obamz sez insurance companies can continue to sell shitty insurance

    today: "oh noes, I'm so upset, he didn't follow the constitution"

    me: ha ha ha fuckin ha... :lol:
    Lots of folks lost insurance that was working just fine for them.

    How on earth is anyone comfortable (or worse, gloatingly-ecstatic) poking fun at those who have been fucked by this? Those who have legitimate health and financial worries?

    "I came out OK, so fuck you and your whining" - that's what it's come to? Really?

    (and if so, then my apologies for being so misguided)

    My own insurance is in place for now, and I'm thankful for it; the increase is ultimately inconsequential to our wallet. Don't know what's going to happen with coverage for my husband though; his COBRA is up in a month, the cost to add him to my policy is prohibitive, and we can't get solid, secure information on what's involved with obtaining his own separate policy.

    God or whatever help us when his PKD goes into overdrive, or he needs another lung surgery.

    Or when LIFE happens.

    To any of us.

    "oh noes", my ass.
  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    Fraud....knowingly lied.

    Recently former Federal Prosecutor Andrew McCarthy wrote that “Barack Obama is guilty of fraud — serial fraud — that is orders of magnitude more serious than frauds the Justice Department routinely prosecutes” which in the private sector is a punishable crime.
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    ...you will not see this on liberal media. Expected though.


    STUDENTS AT HISTORICALLY BLACK UNIVERSITY LASH OUT AT OBAMACARE AFTER THIS SURPRISE SCHOOL ANNOUNCEMENT


    Students at a historically black Maryland university spoke out this week against President Barack Obama’s signature health care law after the school announced it had cancelled a student insurance policy because of the Affordable Care Act’s regulations.

    “It’s stupid and it’s Obama’s fault,” one Bowie State University student told website Campus Reform Thursday. “You haven’t done anything, Obama, and I’m disappointed in you.”


    The historically black school had previously provided coverage to students for $50 per semester, but stopped and placed blame on Obamacare.

    “I can’t afford anything right now,” one student said. “I can’t even afford my loans.”

    “We don’t have that money,” another said. “We can barely afford books.”
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • ajedigecko
    ajedigecko \m/deplorable af \m/ Posts: 2,431
    Jon Stewart gets it though.


    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7InS-xW1LCI#
    live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    "Oh, Sweet Irony" part 73 ...

    Obamacare ‘success story’ says she can’t afford new health plan

    A single mom from Washington State who was cited by President Obama as an Affordable Care Act success story now says she’ll go uninsured and calls the program a “treadmill of bureaucracy.”

    Washington State Wire reports that Jessica Sanford, 48, discovered that she is no longer eligible for a large subsidy that would have lowered her monthly premium to $169 per month. Instead, Sanford would now be forced to pay nearly four times as much, $621, for coverage.

    Sanford told the paper she believes the government should shut down the entire healthcare.gov site until the site’s issues are resolved. “In my opinion they ought to shut it down and just get all of it straightened out.”

    That's a complete 180 from what Sanford thought she was signing up for last month when Obama touted her as an Affordable Care Act success story.

    During a White House Rose Garden ceremony on Oct. 21, Obama read an email from Sanford in which she thanks the president for offering her help in obtaining a low-cost, high-quality coverage plan.

    "I recently received a letter from a woman named Jessica Sanford in Washington state,” Obama said. “And here's what she wrote: 'I am a single mom, no child support, self-employed. And I haven't had insurance for 15 years because it's too expensive. I was crying the other day when I signed up, so much stress lifted.' "

    Sanford works as a court reporter and says she makes just under $50,000 a year. Her 14-year-old son requires a monthly prescription that is expensive because it must come from a compounded pharmacy. She said she thought the originally promised $452 monthly premium subsidy would help her close the financial gap.

    “To think I would finally be covered if anything happened – I was so relieved,” she told the Washington Wire.

    However, CNN reports that in the days following Obama's Rose Garden ceremony Sanford received a letter telling her that her tax credit had been taken away, meaning she won’t be able to afford coverage. Officials reportedly told her that they made a mistake in calculating her benefits. Sanford is reportedly one of 8,000 people in Washington State who have received letters informing them that their promised subsidies have been reduced or removed.

    “This is it. I'm not getting insurance," Sanford told CNN. "That's where it stands right now unless they fix it."


    ....

    Nothing to worry about ... they still have ten days to fix it.

    http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-%e2%80%98success-story--says-she-can-t-afford-new-health-plan-225839697.html
    Be Excellent To Each Other
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  • Hey, at least dogs aren't having a problem getting on Obamacare.

    Shane Smith of Fort Collins, Colo., recently found a little surprise when he signed up for coverage under the Affordable Care Act. After proceeding through all the registration hurdles with Connect for Health Colorado, he learned that his dog Baxter had gotten insured, not Smith himself.

    Smith said he guessed the mistake happened when he gave Baxter's name as one of the security questions. “It was pretty funny," Smith said. "Typical Obamacare, that they would insure your dog by mistake.”

    Smith indicated that the error was resolved fairly quickly. (We like to imagine the insurance coverage discussion with Baxter went something like this.)

    Connect for Health Colorado released the following statement: "In general, our letters to customers are generated according to information that is provided by the customer into the system either online or over the phone. In other words, our system does not make up a name when generating a letter. As with any new system, mistakes are possible and when notified by customers, we work quickly to resolve the situation.”

    .
    Supporters and critics of Obamacare will surely go to great and absurd lengths to paint this understandable clerical error as evidence of the program's total failure. But there's another way to look at it: Obamacare is taking care of your pets, too!

    Of course, you'll have about as much trouble explaining their policy to them as signing them up, but that's the price we pay for universal pet care coverage.

    http://news.yahoo.com/obamacare-signs-u ... 50233.html

    :lol:
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Possibly up to 100M cancellations coming...


    http://www.google.com/gwt/x?u=http://ww ... gCg&wsc=bf
  • Another day, another big, bad black eye for HealthCare.gov.

    A crucial system for making payments to insurers from people who enroll in that federal Obamacare marketplace has yet to be built, a senior government IT official admitted Tuesday.

    The official, Henry Chao, visibly stunned Rep. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.) when he said under questioning before a House subcommittee that a significant fraction of HealthCare.gov—30 to 40 percent of it—has yet to be constructed.

    "We still need to build the payments system to make the payments [to insurance companies] in January," testified Chao, deputy chief information officer of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, the federal agency that operates HealthCare.gov.

    That so-called financial management tool was originally supposed to be part of HealthCare.gov when it launched Oct. 1, but officials later suspended its launch as part of their effort to get the consumer interface part of the site ready. The tool will, when it works, transmit the subsidies that the government is kicking in for many enrollees to offset the costs of their monthly premiums.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101211556

    The hits keep coming :lol:
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,546
    unsung wrote:
    Possibly up to 100M cancellations coming...


    http://www.google.com/gwt/x?u=http://ww ... gCg&wsc=bf

    This one suggests <1% will pay more for insurance (refers to actual data, too):

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/101218418?__source=yahoo|finance|headline|headline|story&par=yahoo&doc=101218418|Study:%20%27Tiny%20fraction%27%20wi
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,295
    I was able to log on to healthcare.gov and browse available plans, so it appears they are making progress on the website.
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