Okay... So where are all the Brendan O'Brien haters now?

Olivavu wrote:

If Pearl Jam didn't like him or what he does and how he does it, they wouldn't use him.

Get over it and don't listen to it if you don't like it. It's that simple.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that Pearl Jam doesn't like him. Obviously they totally do.
Even if we do like it, it's good to switch producers from time to time I think. Get a new outlook on things, a fresh contribution.... that can't really be a bad thing assuming they choose someone good. There are so many interesting options out there. Wishing they would find a new producer doesn't necessarily mean that we should listen to someone else or that we're not happy with the band. I love LB. I still think they could use a change to keep them on their toes. What I think, of course, has ZERO impact on anything.... it's just an opinion.

Olivavu wrote:

If Pearl Jam didn't like him or what he does and how he does it, they wouldn't use him.

Get over it and don't listen to it if you don't like it. It's that simple.

Look, I can be exactly as dismissive of you and your comment. If you don't like what I have to say on the matter, get over it and don't read it if you don't like it. It's that simple. However, this is a thread about O'Brien. If you came into it expecting not to read about O'Brien or people critiquing him, you're just simply lacking some cognitive powers.

Olivavu wrote:

It's all the assumptions people are making that he's taking over and is forcing himself on the band like they have no choice that is the most ridiculous part of this.

That is the crux of my point.

I don't think anyone thinks he is doing it against the will of the band though.... Yes, he's weaseling his way in any way he can, but the band is letting him. Everyone understands that.

See, it's stuff like that.

Why does he have to doing on the sly?

How about the band don't see it the same as you and are happy with the situation?

Because that's clearly what it is. And who knows better - the band or you?

That's clearly a rhetorical question

At least we're to the point of dialogue again. Oli, I'm curious if you're familiar with the Bob Rock situation with Metallica? If so, it's a useful reference. If not, I'll just try another route.

Essentially anyone can fall into a relationship that is overly comfortable and detrimental to creativity or other aspects of people's lives. Trust me, the people critiquing O'Brien aren't lesser fans of Pearl Jam or people who hate Pearl Jam. They are instead people who pay a lot of attention to the band, have often grown up with the band being their life soundtrack, etc. It's like seeing your best friend fall in love with a bad woman. Your best friend may not see what is happening and they might think everything is wonderful from their perspective, but sometimes you need to whisper in your friend's ear some truths to help them see things from a different perspective. That's what people (or at least I am) are trying to do here in some small way.

Again, nobody is saying that Pearl Jam and O'Brien don't like each other or are having problems behind the scenes or anything. We're not privy to that. However, musically I think people can make very legitimate and observant critiques about the music and production values. People are also going out of their way to flag problematic "stuff" that they notice. The overall hope and goal? To improve things. There's nothing wrong with that. Growing too content is often a problem in the creative arts. Having producers who start to become members of the band by default is also something has happened with other bands and Pearl Jam needs to realize they are not immune to it.

In this case there's a producer who is pretty damn heavy handed and there's a good deal of evidence that he's also quite egotistical. That'd be fine if it was resulting in improved music. However, the majority of what I'm reading is that despite people being happier with this album than Backspacer (and some with Self-Titled or Riot Act), I don't really see many people saying much more than that. People like to throw out ridiculous claims that people are expecting Pearl Jam to be 20 again or whatever. Nope, that's not the case. We just want the band being the band and not the band's music being drenched in O'Brien's cheez before being served up to us.

I'm firmly of the opinion that PJ needs to step back and evaluate their situation with O'Brien on multiple levels and that they should be encouraged to work with a different producer again. All the problems I see with modern PJ music are not rooted in O'Brien, but they do tend to at least intersect or be amplified by him. Hoping that a band works with another producer is pretty reasonable, especially when they can present an informed opinion and evidence as to why they think it is either necessary or could be an improvement.

Soulfire42 wrote:

At least we're to the point of dialogue again. Oli, I'm curious if you're familiar with the Bob Rock situation with Metallica? If so, it's a useful reference. If not, I'll just try another route.

Essentially anyone can fall into a relationship that is overly comfortable and detrimental to creativity or other aspects of people's lives. Trust me, the people critiquing O'Brien aren't lesser fans of Pearl Jam or people who hate Pearl Jam. They are instead people who pay a lot of attention to the band, have often grown up with the band being their life soundtrack, etc. It's like seeing your best friend fall in love with a bad woman. Your best friend may not see what is happening and they might think everything is wonderful from their perspective, but sometimes you need to whisper in your friend's ear some truths to help them see things from a different perspective. That's what people (or at least I am) are trying to do here in some small way.

Again, nobody is saying that Pearl Jam and O'Brien don't like each other or are having problems behind the scenes or anything. We're not privy to that. However, musically I think people can make very legitimate and observant critiques about the music and production values. People are also going out of their way to flag problematic "stuff" that they notice. The overall hope and goal? To improve things. There's nothing wrong with that. Growing too content is often a problem in the creative arts. Having producers who start to become members of the band by default is also something has happened with other bands and Pearl Jam needs to realize they are not immune to it.

In this case there's a producer who is pretty damn heavy handed and there's a good deal of evidence that he's also quite egotistical. That'd be fine if it was resulting in improved music. However, the majority of what I'm reading is that despite people being happier with this album than Backspacer (and some with Self-Titled or Riot Act), I don't really see many people saying much more than that. People like to throw out ridiculous claims that people are expecting Pearl Jam to be 20 again or whatever. Nope, that's not the case. We just want the band being the band and not the band's music being drenched in O'Brien's cheez before being served up to us.

I'm firmly of the opinion that PJ needs to step back and evaluate their situation with O'Brien on multiple levels and that they should be encouraged to work with a different producer again. All the problems I see with modern PJ music are not rooted in O'Brien, but they do tend to at least intersect or be amplified by him. Hoping that a band works with another producer is pretty reasonable, especially when they can present an informed opinion and evidence as to why they think it is either necessary or could be an improvement.

Good post!

I'm just pissed I missed the contest where everyone got to be in the studio for the twenty days of recording and witness all this stuff you are now spewing out of your asses. I miss all the good stuff.

fife wrote:

does anyone really believe that the band who always done whatever they wanted to do doesn't listen to the record before it being released.

you might not like some songs but Pearl Jam does and in truth that really all that matters.

Lol, it is the only conclusion we are to come to after reading some of the BOB comments. Bob actually hog ties all five of them until the wax is pressed and then, and only then, does he release them. At that point they are so shamed that they don't tell anyone, and in fact, they invite him back for the next album. :fp:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

there's yet ANOTHER example. I just watched the interview with Judd Apatow, and Stone made TWO comments relating to Brendan in a negative light, whether he meant it or not.

He made mention of Getaway being a great song in its simplicity, with "no keyboards added or anything like that".

Then he was talking about how "even Brendan was proved wrong a couple times during this process, where he told us to stop working on a song because it wasn't working, but we pressed forward, he told us to stop working on it, but we pressed forward, and it ended up really working and on the record". Seriously?? And you still work with this guy?

A good producer doesn't dismiss what the BAND wants. A good producer guides the band in the direction they want to go. A producer is not their leader. A producer is their guide to the destination they want to go but need help getting to.

it's clear to me just from the things we KNOW (things that he and the band have said) that O'Brien tries to be their leader.

I'll admit that the no keyboards thing could be taken as a jab at BOb if you wanna view it like that. I could definitely see Stone, fresh off his solo album where he made every call, bristling at any prodding from producer.

The other comment kinda proves what I've been saying... Obrien makes recommendations and the band chooses to follow them or not. It doesn't sound like he dismissed anything. They continued working on whatever it was and judging from the final product there was no post recording sabotage that happened and the band approved the final results.

on2legs wrote:

There was a lot of hate for BoB floating around the board... just wondering if anyone changed their mind after listening to the live stream?

Brendan O'Brien, Cheesemaster Extraordinaire