Okay... So where are all the Brendan O'Brien haters now?

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Comments

  • Dr. Delight
    Dr. Delight Posts: 11,210
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    I actually just think this "hater" label is really misguided and unfair. So some people think, for various reasons, that the band needs a change from BoB. All of a sudden they are all full of hate??? I just think it's a legitimate opinion. I don't think hate even comes into it. I mean come on.
    Soul, I have a picture of Brendan O'Brien tacked up on my wall in the corner. I sit in my chair and hate-stare at that poster for minutes on end, until my veins start to boil, my flesh turns purple and I only stop when I feel I'm going to pop.

    Then I turn on Riot Act
    And so you see, I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,020
    DewieCox wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    I actually just think this "hater" label is really misguided and unfair. So some people think, for various reasons, that the band needs a change from BoB. All of a sudden they are all full of hate??? I just think it's a legitimate opinion. I don't think hate even comes into it. I mean come on.

    I think it's only a legitimate opinion if they know exactly what he is and isn't responsible for.
    I guess, but I think plenty of people DO have a pretty good idea of what he is or isn't responsible for. It's not like it's an unanswerable riddle.... I.e. it's pretty easy to know if you like or dislike the way the album is mastered and mixed, pretty easy to recognize a pattern in his work, and pretty easy to listen to or read interviews where BoB's influence is made fairly clear.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,020
    Dr. Delight wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    I actually just think this "hater" label is really misguided and unfair. So some people think, for various reasons, that the band needs a change from BoB. All of a sudden they are all full of hate??? I just think it's a legitimate opinion. I don't think hate even comes into it. I mean come on.
    Soul, I have a picture of Brendan O'Brien tacked up on my wall in the corner. I sit in my chair and hate-stare at that poster for minutes on end, until my veins start to boil, my flesh turns purple and I only stop when I feel I'm going to pop.

    Then I turn on Riot Act
    :lol::lol::lol: I stand corrected!! :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    If you ever watch the Joy of Painting with Bob Ross, you might notice at the end he's like "Here's the test, lets do something crazy.." and he puts a big ass tree right down the middle of the beautiful scenic mountain range... well this was going to be a Brendan O'brien analogy, but now I'm lost... :lol:
    :lol::lol: Bob Ross really did do that a lot... and every time I'd be like, "Noooo! You just ruined it!! It was perfect before you did that!" :fp: :lol:

    :lol::D See? Someone could say that's what BoB does... Sometimes that tree is awesome..sometimes is just in the way. 8-)
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    snipes824 wrote:
    If you think I'm talking about the lyrics then you've missed the point.

    I didn't think you were, but that was my point. if you don't pay attention to lyric writing, then EVERY member has been equally represented with "solo" songs on each album besides maybe Vitalogy. So your point is moo.

    Like a cow's opinion.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • snipes824
    snipes824 Posts: 870
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    snipes824 wrote:
    If you think I'm talking about the lyrics then you've missed the point.

    I didn't think you were, but that was my point. if you don't pay attention to lyric writing, then EVERY member has been equally represented with "solo" songs on each album besides maybe Vitalogy. So your point is moo.

    Like a cow's opinion.
    And I'd prefer my Eddie written Pearl Jam songs to have the full band in mind, not one that has already been released under his solo ukelele project...at the apparent advice of BoB.
  • Mawky1103
    Mawky1103 Posts: 311
    Why are the last notes of the album delivered by BoB? I'd rather hear Mike's guitar, or Eddie's voice. I do love the album, was just turned off by hearing that terrible outro by someone not even in the band.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,020
    Mawky1103 wrote:
    Why are the last notes of the album delivered by BoB? I'd rather hear Mike's guitar, or Eddie's voice. I do love the album, was just turned off by hearing that terrible outro by someone not even in the band.
    Love the album, but yeah, that REALLY is a terrible fucking outro. It was awful at Wrigley, and it sucks on the album too. Why not at least just use a real piano????
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JT214511
    JT214511 Los Angeles Posts: 36
    High Fidelity 2000 wrote:
    Yeah, not crazy about it (his production). As a whole I think the album is better than Backspacer on first listen, but there is definitely too much of BoB around it. The schmaltz of Sirens, the schmaltz of Future Days, the Train-esque breakdown/rearrangement of Sleeping By Myself (which is one of the, if not the, favorite song of mine from Uke Songs), and the whee-oo-whee-oooh-whee space sounds on Lightning Bolt... that's a good song, I don't know why someone thought it needed cheesy synth sounds on it for no reason. Would have been fine without them.

    I agree with many of the criticisms you have written, but I disagree with the Lightning Bolt synth criticism. Lightning Bolt (the song) sounds very "Who-ish" to me and I feel the synth sound they have on that prechorus part goes really well with it. Pete Townshend embraced synths and I feel that if they're done right they can contribute something cool. The synth part on the studio version was one of the things that made me like the song (I wasn't too impressed by the live version).
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,615
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Mawky1103 wrote:
    Why are the last notes of the album delivered by BoB? I'd rather hear Mike's guitar, or Eddie's voice. I do love the album, was just turned off by hearing that terrible outro by someone not even in the band.
    Love the album, but yeah, that REALLY is a terrible fucking outro. It was awful at Wrigley, and it sucks on the album too. Why not at least just use a real piano????

    All of this. Just a strange way to close things out.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Vedd Hedd
    Vedd Hedd Posts: 4,632
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Mawky1103 wrote:
    Why are the last notes of the album delivered by BoB? I'd rather hear Mike's guitar, or Eddie's voice. I do love the album, was just turned off by hearing that terrible outro by someone not even in the band.
    Love the album, but yeah, that REALLY is a terrible fucking outro. It was awful at Wrigley, and it sucks on the album too. Why not at least just use a real piano????


    The only thing I didn't like about the outro was the fade out. I love the keys, and I don't care "who gets the play the last note" on the album.

    But the song was strong enough that it didn't need a fade, just play the last note and end it.

    But again....this is coming from someone who loves FD.
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • DewieCox
    DewieCox Posts: 11,432
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    I actually just think this "hater" label is really misguided and unfair. So some people think, for various reasons, that the band needs a change from BoB. All of a sudden they are all full of hate??? I just think it's a legitimate opinion. I don't think hate even comes into it. I mean come on.

    I think it's only a legitimate opinion if they know exactly what he is and isn't responsible for.
    I guess, but I think plenty of people DO have a pretty good idea of what he is or isn't responsible for. It's not like it's an unanswerable riddle.... I.e. it's pretty easy to know if you like or dislike the way the album is mastered and mixed, pretty easy to recognize a pattern in his work, and pretty easy to listen to or read interviews where BoB's influence is made fairly clear.

    You can make assumptions about what he's to blame for, but it's still only guesses and they have to have discussion about how they want their albums to unravel before they work on them.

    What else has been brought up besides him urging them to include SBM? Still, he's only making recommendations and the band has the final stamp.

    If you don't think LB is mixed really well, I don't know what to tell you. You can hear each instrument clearly and I'm not hearing any harshness that was present in S/T and Backspacer. And this is all from a crummy stream. This album should sound amazing when we get physical copies and lossless formats.



    I don't think anybody would be complaining about who plays the last note, if the last song was quality. Much like the way I don't think people would be complaining about BOb if they dig the album as a whole. I'm glad they tried to change up FD and not end this album with a song quite a bit like the closer from the last album, but the execution is pretty weak. Better off closing with Yellow Moon, imo, or moving Pendulum to the closing spot.
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,020
    JT214511 wrote:
    High Fidelity 2000 wrote:
    Yeah, not crazy about it (his production). As a whole I think the album is better than Backspacer on first listen, but there is definitely too much of BoB around it. The schmaltz of Sirens, the schmaltz of Future Days, the Train-esque breakdown/rearrangement of Sleeping By Myself (which is one of the, if not the, favorite song of mine from Uke Songs), and the whee-oo-whee-oooh-whee space sounds on Lightning Bolt... that's a good song, I don't know why someone thought it needed cheesy synth sounds on it for no reason. Would have been fine without them.

    I agree with many of the criticisms you have written, but I disagree with the Lightning Bolt synth criticism. Lightning Bolt (the song) sounds very "Who-ish" to me and I feel the synth sound they have on that prechorus part goes really well with it. Pete Townshend embraced synths and I feel that if they're done right they can contribute something cool. The synth part on the studio version was one of the things that made me like the song (I wasn't too impressed by the live version).
    I agree with that. And I think the live performance of LB at Wrigley was just them playing it for the first time - hadn't worked the kinks out yet. I think it will be awesome live once they're more used to playing it.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,020
    DewieCox wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:

    I think it's only a legitimate opinion if they know exactly what he is and isn't responsible for.
    I guess, but I think plenty of people DO have a pretty good idea of what he is or isn't responsible for. It's not like it's an unanswerable riddle.... I.e. it's pretty easy to know if you like or dislike the way the album is mastered and mixed, pretty easy to recognize a pattern in his work, and pretty easy to listen to or read interviews where BoB's influence is made fairly clear.

    You can make assumptions about what he's to blame for, but it's still only guesses and they have to have discussion about how they want their albums to unravel before they work on them.

    What else has been brought up besides him urging them to include SBM? Still, he's only making recommendations and the band has the final stamp.

    If you don't think LB is mixed really well, I don't know what to tell you. You can hear each instrument clearly and I'm not hearing any harshness that was present in S/T and Backspacer. And this is all from a crummy stream. This album should sound amazing when we get physical copies and lossless formats.



    I don't think anybody would be complaining about who plays the last note, if the last song was quality. Much like the way I don't think people would be complaining about BOb if they dig the album as a whole. I'm glad they tried to change up FD and not end this album with a song quite a bit like the closer from the last album, but the execution is pretty weak. Better off closing with Yellow Moon, imo, or moving Pendulum to the closing spot.
    Well I REALLY dig the album as a whole (but am not a fan of the keyboard outro), do think that LB is mixed and mastered well (not amazing, but good) - I am just not ready to let Backspacer drop - it was a fucking DISASTER - and SBM and Future Days are pretty bad. So I don't think I should be expected to just forget about that. I hope that PJ goes with a different producer next album. They just need to switch things up, even though I love LB. Nothing wrong or hateful about that.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lastexit78
    lastexit78 Posts: 618
    After 5 or 6 listens this album is a solid B+ for me. Was expecting less so I'm happy. With that said BOB is a big reason why this is not a truly great album. SBM has no business here. Of the Earth leading into Yellow Moon as the closer would have been epic and fit the albums rough theme a lot better. Sorry but Future Days is awful, I'd have to put a large amount of that on Brendan since he plays on the song more than any other member. Lighting Bolt the song never takes off at the end like I was hoping for. Don't know if that was BOB but it's a bummer. Other than that the album is solid but could have been great with a few tweaks.
    06/22/95, 11/04/95, 11/15/97, 07/16/98, 10/30/99, 10/30/00, 10/31/00, 10/20/01, 10/21/01, 12/08/02, 06/01/03, 06/06/03, 10/25/03, 10/26/03, 09/28/04, 03/18/05, 09/01/05, 07/15/06, 07/16/06, 07/18/06, 07/22/06, 07/23/06, 10/21/06, 10/22/06, 08/28/09, 09/21/09, 09/22/09, 05/20/10, 05/21/10, 10/24/10, 11/26/13, 12/06/13, 06/28/14, 10/26/14, 07/10/18, 08/10/18, 10/02/21, 
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 51,020
    I don't like SBM (on this album) or FD, but I'm totally okay with that. Even on No Code, arguably my favorite PJ album, there is a song that I pretty much can't stand and feel like I have to suffer through it (I'm Open), but I still give the album an A++. One or two songs that I don't really go for is basically nothing to me, especially when they are the last two of the album, so don't interfere with everything that I love. Would it be even better if they were replaced by songs that I love? Of course. And that's why BoB should be replaced.... anything that's wrong with LB seems to largely be accredited to his influence.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Vedd Hedd
    Vedd Hedd Posts: 4,632
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    I don't like SBM (on this album) or FD, but I'm totally okay with that. Even on No Code, arguably my favorite PJ album, there is a song that I pretty much can't stand and feel like I have to suffer through it (I'm Open), but I still give the album an A++. One or two songs that aren't good is basically nothing to me, especially when they are the last two of the album, so don't interfere with everything that I love. Would it be even better if they were replaced by songs that I love? Of course. But whatever. S'alright. :P


    I pretty much agree with this. Well, not your dislike of FD. I think SBM sounds just slightly out of place here. That said...I really like the full band version. I don't see myself skipping it. I DO see myself skipping Let the Records play on occasion....but then again....I see myself seeking it out too.

    As for I'm Open...I love that song, but I get what you are saying. Sometimes you just want a "flow" of particular songs.

    An album should be a representation of what they did during those sessions, tho. Some will be good, some will be bad. They cant have 12 versions of MYM and make a complete album. They need a mix of songs, and not every person will feel every song every single time.
    Turn this anger into
    Nuclear fission
  • oysterjar
    oysterjar NH Posts: 1,235
    I don't have time to thumb through this whole thread right now but for my two cents everything that Last-12-exit, Hugh Freaking Dillon and october22 said on page one is correct. I agree with that.
    Wind this thing up.

  • Olivavu
    Olivavu England Posts: 1,683
    frankmookie wrote:
    I didn't even know that there were Brendan O'brien haters :)

    Still don't understand all the fuss,..

    If he works so much with Pearl Jam it must mean that they like him, and trust him.

    He was part of the albuns he worked on.. any doubt on that? He is a Producer and, in my humble opinion, a good one.
    But you have all the right not too like him.

    It's just that, in my opinion, you can't hate his choices alone.. becouse it's everyone's choice: Eddie, Matt, Jeff, Stone, Brendan, Mike, sound engineers., mixing engineers, mastering engineers, etc...

    If you don't like a particular album or a song it's not fair to blame one man alobe, or is it? Specially in Pearl Jam...

    Cheers!

    Exactly.
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  • TheLuckyOnes
    TheLuckyOnes Posts: 477
    i would think if Future Days wasn't one that the band was extremely proud of, then they wouldn't have played it at Wrigley.

    I hated the Wrigley version, but am still split on the album version.

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