If you're muslim you can leave, dead if not

ajedigecko · September 2013

Pingfah wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

Kill, convert or subjugate Christians and Jews.
(Qur'an 9:29)

Share one's faith with gentleness and respect.
(1 Peter 3:15)

I know i know...out of context.

Shall we start pulling out many of the extremely violent bible verses for you?

No, lets not bother, that sort of behaviour would just be petty, childish trolling.

Based on the amount of years i have been reading this website...there are many topics that belittle the teachings of Jesus.

JimmyV · September 2013

The Red Cross in Kenya is reporting 39 possible victims are still unaccounted for.

Pingfah · September 2013

ajedigecko wrote:

Pingfah wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

Kill, convert or subjugate Christians and Jews.
(Qur'an 9:29)

Share one's faith with gentleness and respect.
(1 Peter 3:15)

I know i know...out of context.

Shall we start pulling out many of the extremely violent bible verses for you?

No, lets not bother, that sort of behaviour would just be petty, childish trolling.

Based on the amount of years i have been reading this website...there are many topics that belittle the teachings of Jesus.

Half the bible belittles the teachings of Jesus, because it is a completely self contradictory load of nonsense.

Godfather. · September 2013

:wtf:

Godfather.

Jason P · September 2013

I've seen reports that the murderers actually rented a shop in the mall. And that gave them access to service elevators which essentially allowed them to have a central base to re-arm.

:?

JimmyV · September 2013

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/n ... tgate.html

He stood up on the toilet and looked out. He had a clear view of the rear terrace and the crowd of children and parents who’d been caught there. “A woman was saying, ‘Calm down, calm down! It’s O.K.!’” he said. Njoroge paused. “Then I saw these guys.”

Men with large rifles or machine guns fired into the crowd, he said. Some children fell, shot; others lay down. He described the gunmen firing into their backs. One of the attackers took up a stone and slammed a man, who was holding a child, in the head. Then he picked his gun back up and fired more.

The men stopped shooting. One yelled, in Swahili, “Kama wewe ni Muslamu amka uende!”—“If you’re Muslim, get up and go!” Some people got up and left. Then the gunmen opened fire again. Done, they ran into the mall.

fuck · September 2013

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/20 ... 41481.html

Kenya's parliament is due to hold a hearing into last week's siege of a Nairobi shopping centre, as the International Red Cross says 39 people remain unaccounted for since the attack.

The announcement of the hearing came as a leaked intelligence report obtained by Al Jazeera showed that security agencies had been alerted to the possibility of the attack on the Westgate mall a year before the siege began on September 21.

fuck · September 2013

ajedigecko wrote:

Kill, convert or subjugate Christians and Jews.
(Qur'an 9:29)

Share one's faith with gentleness and respect.
(1 Peter 3:15)

I know i know...out of context.

No, it's not out of context, you've simply resorted to lying. That's not what the verse says. The verse comes from the same chapter (9) which you keep citing, which I've told you repeatedly is in reference to one specific context. But you will continue to cite it, and even post fake translations now that are actually the exact opposite of what the verse says, because google tells you to.

I'm finished responding to you. You lie, misrepresent, and have no knowledge about the topic. May you have safe travels in your google searches.

JimmyV · September 2013

fuck wrote:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2013/09/hearings-called-over-nairobi-mall-attack-2013930161932441481.html

Kenya's parliament is due to hold a hearing into last week's siege of a Nairobi shopping centre, as the International Red Cross says 39 people remain unaccounted for since the attack.

The announcement of the hearing came as a leaked intelligence report obtained by Al Jazeera showed that security agencies had been alerted to the possibility of the attack on the Westgate mall a year before the siege began on September 21.

Always the way with these tragedies it seems. Intelligence breakdowns have become the norm.

ajedigecko · September 2013

fuck wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

Kill, convert or subjugate Christians and Jews.
(Qur'an 9:29)

Share one's faith with gentleness and respect.
(1 Peter 3:15)

I know i know...out of context.

No, it's not out of context, you've simply resorted to lying. That's not what the verse says. The verse comes from the same chapter (9) which you keep citing, which I've told you repeatedly is in reference to one specific context. But you will continue to cite it, and even post fake translations now that are actually the exact opposite of what the verse says, because google tells you to.

I'm finished responding to you. You lie, misrepresent, and have no knowledge about the topic. May you have safe travels in your google searches.

Dark Side of Islam - rc sproul and abdul saleeb

Good read and good comparisons.

chadwick · September 2013

fuck wrote:

ajedigecko wrote:

Kill, convert or subjugate Christians and Jews.
(Qur'an 9:29)

Share one's faith with gentleness and respect.
(1 Peter 3:15)

I know i know...out of context.

No, it's not out of context, you've simply resorted to lying. That's not what the verse says. The verse comes from the same chapter (9) which you keep citing, which I've told you repeatedly is in reference to one specific context. But you will continue to cite it, and even post fake translations now that are actually the exact opposite of what the verse says, because google tells you to.

I'm finished responding to you. You lie, misrepresent, and have no knowledge about the topic. May you have safe travels in your google searches.

give us the exact facts then.

i just read a lengthy post & i have no idea what i read

aerial · September 2013

[url]Minnesota Sheriff Reports to Congress on Growing Somalia Gang Threat in Hennepin County - See more at: [/url]http://cnsnews.com/news/article/minneso ... iiDHg.dpuf

Sheriff Reports to Congress on Growing Somalia Gang Threat in Hennepin County
The sheriff of Hennepin County, Minn., told the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security on Wednesday about the threat of Somali gangs in his jurisdiction.

“I have been asked to testify today about the specific emergence of Somali gang-related issues we are having in my county,” Rich Stanek said in his prepared testimony.

Stanek represented the National Sheriffs’ Association at the hearing on “America’s Evolving Gang Threat.” He also serves on the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s inter-agency Threat Assessment and Coordination Group and is president of the Major County Sheriffs’ Association.

Stanek said Minnesota is a “designated U.S. Refugee Resettlement Area,” with a Somali population ranging from 80,000 to 125,000 in the state. As a result, Stanek said, while the African population in the U.S. as a whole is about four percent, 18 percent of the Minnesota population is African because of the large Somali presence.

Stanek said he wanted to “state for the record” that most Somalis are “law-abiding citizens” who contribute to the community, but those who have joined gangs are committing crimes across the state.

“Somali gangs are unique in that they are not necessarily based on the narcotics trade as are other traditional gangs,” Stanek said, adding that “turf” is also not a motivating factor in Somali gang criminal activities.

“Gang members will often congregate in certain areas, but commit their criminal acts elsewhere,” Stanek said. “Criminal acts are often done in a wide geographic area that stretches outside of the Twin Cities seven county metro area.

“Their mobility has made them difficult to track,” Stanek said.

Stanek listed five “typical crimes” committed by Somali gang members, including credit card fraud, cell phone and gun store burglaries, and witness intimidation. The fifth type of criminal activity is tied to international terrorism, Stanek said.

“In 2007, the local Somali community started to report that some of the youth in the area had essentially disappeared without warning,” Stanek said. “It was later learned that 20 young men had left Minneapolis to travel to Somalia to receive training and fight as members of al- Shabaab.

“One individual had moved to Minneapolis as a teenager in 1993,” Stanek said. Following a shoplifting arrest, he fell into the violent street gang called the ‘Somali Hot Boyz.’ After a short period of time, he emerged as a recruiter for al-Shabaab, which eventually led him to leave Minneapolis for the Horn of Africa in 2008.

“Later, it was learned this individual was killed in fighting between al-Shabaab and Somali government forces,” Stanek said.

“We are clearly faced with a challenge that requires an innovative approach including new investigative tools and focused resources,” Stanek said.

According to the Health and Human Services’ Administration for Children and Families’ Office of Refugee and Resettlement, refugee programs and resettlement sites exist in 49 states and the District of Columbia and are operated through partnerships between the federal government and faith-based and other non-governmental refugee support organizations in those states and the District.

A spokesperson for the office told CNSNews.com that the United States admits on average about 70,000 refugees a year, with each required to be designated as individuals who face danger in their homeland. Every refugee has to be cleared by the Department of Homeland Security before being allowed to resettle in the United States, the spokesperson said.

A wide range of considerations about where to relocate individuals is considered, including family ties, language and available resources, the spokesperson said. But once they are living in the United States, refugees are free to live anywhere in the country.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), chairman of the subcommittee, opened the hearing with statistics on the gang threat in the United States.

“According to the 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment there are approximately 1.4 million gang members belonging to more than 33,000 gangs in the United States,” Sensenbrenner said. “It has been reported that the number of gang members in the U.S. has increased by 40 percent since 2009.”

- See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/minneso ... iiDHg.dpuf

mickeyrat · September 2013

aerial wrote:

[url]Minnesota Sheriff Reports to Congress on Growing Somalia Gang Threat in Hennepin County - See more at: [/url]http://cnsnews.com/news/article/minneso ... iiDHg.dpuf

Sheriff Reports to Congress on Growing Somalia Gang Threat in Hennepin County
The sheriff of Hennepin County, Minn., told the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security on Wednesday about the threat of Somali gangs in his jurisdiction.

“I have been asked to testify today about the specific emergence of Somali gang-related issues we are having in my county,” Rich Stanek said in his prepared testimony.

Stanek represented the National Sheriffs’ Association at the hearing on “America’s Evolving Gang Threat.” He also serves on the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s inter-agency Threat Assessment and Coordination Group and is president of the Major County Sheriffs’ Association.

Stanek said Minnesota is a “designated U.S. Refugee Resettlement Area,” with a Somali population ranging from 80,000 to 125,000 in the state. As a result, Stanek said, while the African population in the U.S. as a whole is about four percent, 18 percent of the Minnesota population is African because of the large Somali presence.

Stanek said he wanted to “state for the record” that most Somalis are “law-abiding citizens” who contribute to the community, but those who have joined gangs are committing crimes across the state.

“Somali gangs are unique in that they are not necessarily based on the narcotics trade as are other traditional gangs,” Stanek said, adding that “turf” is also not a motivating factor in Somali gang criminal activities.

“Gang members will often congregate in certain areas, but commit their criminal acts elsewhere,” Stanek said. “Criminal acts are often done in a wide geographic area that stretches outside of the Twin Cities seven county metro area.

“Their mobility has made them difficult to track,” Stanek said.

Stanek listed five “typical crimes” committed by Somali gang members, including credit card fraud, cell phone and gun store burglaries, and witness intimidation. The fifth type of criminal activity is tied to international terrorism, Stanek said.

“In 2007, the local Somali community started to report that some of the youth in the area had essentially disappeared without warning,” Stanek said. “It was later learned that 20 young men had left Minneapolis to travel to Somalia to receive training and fight as members of al- Shabaab.

“One individual had moved to Minneapolis as a teenager in 1993,” Stanek said. Following a shoplifting arrest, he fell into the violent street gang called the ‘Somali Hot Boyz.’ After a short period of time, he emerged as a recruiter for al-Shabaab, which eventually led him to leave Minneapolis for the Horn of Africa in 2008.

“Later, it was learned this individual was killed in fighting between al-Shabaab and Somali government forces,” Stanek said.

“We are clearly faced with a challenge that requires an innovative approach including new investigative tools and focused resources,” Stanek said.

According to the Health and Human Services’ Administration for Children and Families’ Office of Refugee and Resettlement, refugee programs and resettlement sites exist in 49 states and the District of Columbia and are operated through partnerships between the federal government and faith-based and other non-governmental refugee support organizations in those states and the District.

A spokesperson for the office told CNSNews.com that the United States admits on average about 70,000 refugees a year, with each required to be designated as individuals who face danger in their homeland. Every refugee has to be cleared by the Department of Homeland Security before being allowed to resettle in the United States, the spokesperson said.

A wide range of considerations about where to relocate individuals is considered, including family ties, language and available resources, the spokesperson said. But once they are living in the United States, refugees are free to live anywhere in the country.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), chairman of the subcommittee, opened the hearing with statistics on the gang threat in the United States.

“According to the 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment there are approximately 1.4 million gang members belonging to more than 33,000 gangs in the United States,” Sensenbrenner said. “It has been reported that the number of gang members in the U.S. has increased by 40 percent since 2009.”

- See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/minneso ... iiDHg.dpuf

they seem to be fitting right in then.
I defy you to name one immigrant population that doesnt have or has had a criminal element.

aerial · September 2013

mickeyrat wrote:

aerial wrote:

[url]Minnesota Sheriff Reports to Congress on Growing Somalia Gang Threat in Hennepin County - See more at: [/url]http://cnsnews.com/news/article/minneso ... iiDHg.dpuf

Sheriff Reports to Congress on Growing Somalia Gang Threat in Hennepin County
The sheriff of Hennepin County, Minn., told the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security on Wednesday about the threat of Somali gangs in his jurisdiction.

“I have been asked to testify today about the specific emergence of Somali gang-related issues we are having in my county,” Rich Stanek said in his prepared testimony.

Stanek represented the National Sheriffs’ Association at the hearing on “America’s Evolving Gang Threat.” He also serves on the U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s inter-agency Threat Assessment and Coordination Group and is president of the Major County Sheriffs’ Association.

Stanek said Minnesota is a “designated U.S. Refugee Resettlement Area,” with a Somali population ranging from 80,000 to 125,000 in the state. As a result, Stanek said, while the African population in the U.S. as a whole is about four percent, 18 percent of the Minnesota population is African because of the large Somali presence.

Stanek said he wanted to “state for the record” that most Somalis are “law-abiding citizens” who contribute to the community, but those who have joined gangs are committing crimes across the state.

“Somali gangs are unique in that they are not necessarily based on the narcotics trade as are other traditional gangs,” Stanek said, adding that “turf” is also not a motivating factor in Somali gang criminal activities.

“Gang members will often congregate in certain areas, but commit their criminal acts elsewhere,” Stanek said. “Criminal acts are often done in a wide geographic area that stretches outside of the Twin Cities seven county metro area.

“Their mobility has made them difficult to track,” Stanek said.

Stanek listed five “typical crimes” committed by Somali gang members, including credit card fraud, cell phone and gun store burglaries, and witness intimidation. The fifth type of criminal activity is tied to international terrorism, Stanek said.

“In 2007, the local Somali community started to report that some of the youth in the area had essentially disappeared without warning,” Stanek said. “It was later learned that 20 young men had left Minneapolis to travel to Somalia to receive training and fight as members of al- Shabaab.

“One individual had moved to Minneapolis as a teenager in 1993,” Stanek said. Following a shoplifting arrest, he fell into the violent street gang called the ‘Somali Hot Boyz.’ After a short period of time, he emerged as a recruiter for al-Shabaab, which eventually led him to leave Minneapolis for the Horn of Africa in 2008.

“Later, it was learned this individual was killed in fighting between al-Shabaab and Somali government forces,” Stanek said.

“We are clearly faced with a challenge that requires an innovative approach including new investigative tools and focused resources,” Stanek said.

According to the Health and Human Services’ Administration for Children and Families’ Office of Refugee and Resettlement, refugee programs and resettlement sites exist in 49 states and the District of Columbia and are operated through partnerships between the federal government and faith-based and other non-governmental refugee support organizations in those states and the District.

A spokesperson for the office told CNSNews.com that the United States admits on average about 70,000 refugees a year, with each required to be designated as individuals who face danger in their homeland. Every refugee has to be cleared by the Department of Homeland Security before being allowed to resettle in the United States, the spokesperson said.

A wide range of considerations about where to relocate individuals is considered, including family ties, language and available resources, the spokesperson said. But once they are living in the United States, refugees are free to live anywhere in the country.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), chairman of the subcommittee, opened the hearing with statistics on the gang threat in the United States.

“According to the 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment there are approximately 1.4 million gang members belonging to more than 33,000 gangs in the United States,” Sensenbrenner said. “It has been reported that the number of gang members in the U.S. has increased by 40 percent since 2009.”

- See more at: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/minneso ... iiDHg.dpuf

they seem to be fitting right in then.
I defy you to name one immigrant population that doesnt have or has had a criminal element.

What is your point. It's ok because everyone else is doing it?
So why import trouble?

Jason P · September 2013

mickeyrat wrote:

they seem to be fitting right in then.
I defy you to name one immigrant population that doesnt have or has had a criminal element.

Australians seem to be chill. I don't recall any issues with the Norwegians as well.

We had some problems with the South Africans in the late 80's, but Riggs and Murtaugh pretty much took care of that.

MotoDC · October 2013

Jason P wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

they seem to be fitting right in then.
I defy you to name one immigrant population that doesnt have or has had a criminal element.

Australians seem to be chill. I don't recall any issues with the Norwegians as well.

We had some problems with the South Africans in the late 80's, but Riggs and Murtaugh pretty much took care of that.

B-b-b-but...you're bleck.

PJ_Soul · October 2013

badbrains wrote:

Thanks fuck for explaining it WAYYYYYYYYYY BETTER then I could've ever. Fucken genious

I fund fuck to be really condescending and he tends to assume that everyone else (beside you, badbrains, the other Muslim in the thread) is an idiot.

Fuck, I appreciated the time you took to post that response to me, but it was fairly evasive of the specific point I was making, and also very presumptuous about what I do or don't understand. You seem to think I'm pretty stupid. Of course I have an understanding of what you presume I don't. It's not rocket science you know. The fact of the matter is that it doesn't change anything as far as reality goes. You can wax on forever about the history and sciences of Islam, and the varying degrees of adherence to the Quran, etc., but it doesn't actually change anything. The way you are approaching the whole issue of people having a problem with certain aspects of the religion is flawed. Yes, you can provide a better understanding of the faith itself, but you are doing nothing whatsoever to confront the real world problems that exist within the religion and the culture that revolves around it. You breeze over those issues like they are nothing (and also assume that just because I say something about "the culture" briefly under the assumption that we all understand the weighty meaning behind that, it means I have no understanding of what that really means!), and proceed to turn the conversation into an academic one. It's just not going anywhere. But I am an open minded person (I know you have presumed that I'm not), and of course I am taking in everything you're saying, and it's interesting. It just doesn't actually confront the issue that I'm confronting.

I actually find that, if your goal is to make people more understanding about the Muslim faith, your method is actually alienating, mostly because of your assumption that no one knows anything and can't understand what should be known anyway unless they spend 20 years studying it. Good thing you're not an Imam I guess?

fuck · October 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

badbrains wrote:

Thanks fuck for explaining it WAYYYYYYYYYY BETTER then I could've ever. Fucken genious

I fund fuck to be really condescending and he tends to assume that everyone else (beside you, badbrains, the other Muslim in the thread) is an idiot.

What? No I don't. There are plenty of clearly smart people in this thread, and I even have disagreed with things badbrains has said here as well (such as his explanation of 'infidel'). To suggest that I'm showing some Muslim bias is low.

I'm not questioning your intelligence here, just your knowledge of the subject we're discussing. There's a big difference. I admit that I don't have knowledge about many things in this world, and if someone who says they studied a certain topic both in the academic setting and in different countries explained to me through reason and facts why I'm wrong, I would be forced to concede the point (ESPECIALLY when I admit that I never read the actual sources on the topic). Or at least I'd hope to have the humility to do that whenever the time arises (and it has before).

I'm not saying you don't have the capability to understand. I'm saying you are speaking and making generalizing comments based on a very clear demonstration of a poor understanding of the topic at hand.

Anyway, thanks for your response. It said nothing meaningful though, as it did not address any of the points I raised. Instead you accused me of evading the issue (even though I took care to respond to pretty much all your points), while doing it yourself.

I'm sorry you think I'm alienating, and I don't understand what turning a discussion on religion/politics/policy "into an academic one" even means, or why it's necessarily a bad thing? Oh well. Some people think that trying to explain facts can be alienating. I think telling a billion people their religion is discriminatory (while admittedly not studying it) is alienating. I think telling millions of practicing Muslim women that their belief system is oppressive to them (even though they don't seem to know it) is alienating.

I think trying to explain to you why your understanding of Islam is flawed and clearly made up through impressions you get from popular culture in the West is not alienating, due to the main difference that I at least am trying to use facts (historical, textual, etc.) to back up my arguments. You make grandiose claims about religion and culture, and then when I point out that it's dangerous to say things along the lines of 'their culture is the problem' and try to explain why (to give explanation rather than simply say "it's bullshit"), you say I'm being condescending.

This conversation has clearly reached its limit. Take care.

PJ_Soul wrote:

Good thing you're not an Imam I guess?

Why? Not like you'd come visit me if I was

PJ_Soul · October 2013

Why not? I have visited many religious leaders in their places of worship. I know a lot more about religion that you think I do..... Far more understanding of the topic at hand that you think in terms of the relationship between faith, practice, and day to day life. That's why I feel that you are treating me like an idiot. Because you keep saying I don't understand things, when you have no clue what I understand or know. The fact that much of my understanding of the Muslim faith comes from Muslims seems to have had no impact on you at all btw.

Yes, I'm speaking in generalities - so what? I don't have time to write the kinds of posts you write. If I didn't generalize I'd be qualifying things forever. I see nothing wrong with generalities here. I think we are all smart enough to understand that nothing applies to all things.

There is nothing wrong with confronting an issue academically if that is going to be helpful to the issue, but it's not in this case. I'm talking about how women aren't equal in Muslim society and how the Quran does in fact has some things in it that show this is something written into the religion, as a counter to someone saying that that isn't true. That's all. And I think you vaguely confirmed that that is true, but that certainly was buried pretty deeply under all of that other stuff that was totally irrelevant to what I was talking about.

fuck · October 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

Why not? I have visited many religious leaders in their places of worship.

:think:

PJ_Soul wrote:

if I wanted to really dig deeper into a religion (and I have dug pretty deep already BTW... I am sure most assume Atheists are the least knowledgeable about it, but that is not true), I would not go to an Imam or a priest or an orthodox rabbi. Talk about getting biased and defensive answers. They are the ones who are in charge of religious brainwashing for crying out loud. Of course those true to the faith are going to try and make it sound as good and benign as possible. I don't want tainted info coming from someone who is trying to sell me a good line or defend something (like you guys are trying g to do).

:corn:

If you're muslim you can leave, dead if not

Comments

Categories