Religion should be nothing more than happy ideas that give people comfort and perhaps a sense right vs. wrong and maybe their own mortality. Asking anything more is asking too much.
Your right ... I certainly wouldn't know ... because as i've stated I will not read that piece of bullshit anymore than I'd read the christians piece of bullshit.
interesting the most vocal on a subject is admittedly the least educated on it.
my god is the sun, not an omni-dude. But at least I can explain why and also understand why others would believe differently than I do with respect.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I'm sorry u feel that way pj soul, but you're wrong. Your view is that of an extremist view of Islam. Again, NO ONE BUT god judges who goes to heaven. That's it, plain and simple. Go to any true Muslim and he/she will have no problem stating what I said. My uncle practices the religion and he has NO PROBLEM with me having a "catholic" girl friend or even have a problem with me marrying her. I'm telling you, you're wrong. But it's ok, doesn't mean I wouldn't want to toke with ya!
There are certainly many quote from the Quran saying that women and men are equal as far as how they practice their faith goes, and it does say that killing infant daughters is a sin, and that men should be chaste like women... So there are some things about certain kinds of equality in that book. However, it also says things like:
"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
And
"If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."
And
"Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy."
And
"O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things."
And
"Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half; and as for his parents, each of them shall have the sixth of what he has left if he has a child, but if he has no child and (only) his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall have the third; but if he has brothers, then his mother shall have the sixth after (the payment of) a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt; your parents and your children, you know not which of them is the nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah: Surely Allah is Knowing, Wise."
Yes, it is easy to find direct quotes from the Quran that show how Islam does not consider women equal to men. As a woman, I find it offensive when people try to claim that women are equal to men in Islam because it denies that there is a big problem in this regard both in the religion and in the culture.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
More stories of heroism. This of a Somali-born Muslim, Abdul Haji, helping women and children escape. Abdul grabbed his gun and rushed to the mall when he heard of the attack because his brother was there.
More stories of heroism. This of a Somali-born Muslim, Abdul Haji, helping women and children escape. Abdul grabbed his gun and rushed to the mall when he heard of the attack because his brother was there.
Your right ... I certainly wouldn't know ... because as i've stated I will not read that piece of bullshit anymore than I'd read the christians piece of bullshit.
interesting the most vocal on a subject is admittedly the least educated on it.
my god is the sun, not an omni-dude. But at least I can explain why and also understand why others would believe differently than I do with respect.
Really ... Well I've already explained why because I think it's bullshit, it's scam ... Like most scams how many billions does it take in yearly and there is 0 proof of a God and so far all the EDUCATED people apparently can't deliver proof either ... Just what's in some book to keep the scam going.
As for understanding why people believe, again I've stated it's a comfort thing, we are likely the one species who imagines their own death and believing in a mystical place is a far more comforting thought than worm food.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Your right ... I certainly wouldn't know ... because as i've stated I will not read that piece of bullshit anymore than I'd read the christians piece of bullshit.
interesting the most vocal on a subject is admittedly the least educated on it.
my god is the sun, not an omni-dude. But at least I can explain why and also understand why others would believe differently than I do with respect.
Really ... Well I've already explained why because I think it's bullshit, it's scam ... Like most scams how many billions does it take in yearly and there is 0 proof of a God and so far all the EDUCATED people apparently can't deliver proof either ... Just what's in some book to keep the scam going.
As for understanding why people believe, again I've stated it's a comfort thing, we are likely the one species who imagines their own death and believing in a mystical place is a far more comforting thought than worm food.
I'm with you. That's how I view the whole thing as well. HOWEVER, I do respect people's need to find comfort in having faith in God. I don't understand the need or HOW in the fuck people believe that shit, but I respect their need for the comfort. A lot of people are really afraid of death (and for some reason can't conceive an afterlife without God having something to do with it). I don't think that people WANT to know the truth. Well, fine I guess. I don't get it, but fine. If that makes them more comfortable, I can live with that. But what I can't tolerate is people supporting ANY rules or anything else within an organized religion that lead to bigotry, inequality, or violence or hate, and corruption, power struggles, and money mongering. And all the major religions perpetrate ALL of these sins, yet people continue to stand behind them and defend them until they're blue in the face, while completely ignoring the negatives and trying to convince others that they either don't exist or don't matter in the big scheme of things. That is BULLSHIT. The world would be SO much better off if people who need the comfort of God could do what JESUS thought they should do, which is simply have faith in him in their own private way and to be good and kind and loving to others. That's it. Organized religion and all these bullshit books and rules and religious cultures grown from corruption and greed kind of make me sick, however good some of their followers may be. I think that being a part of it in any way makes one guilty of the sins of the religion, and all the good deeds in the world can't make up for that hypocrisy IMHO.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Really ... Well I've already explained why because I think it's bullshit, it's scam ... Like most scams how many billions does it take in yearly and there is 0 proof of a God and so far all the EDUCATED people apparently can't deliver proof either ... Just what's in some book to keep the scam going.
As for understanding why people believe, again I've stated it's a comfort thing, we are likely the one species who imagines their own death and believing in a mystical place is a far more comforting thought than worm food.
I'm atheist. But I don't shove it down people's throats disrespectfully. Just something to think about.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Really ... Well I've already explained why because I think it's bullshit, it's scam ... Like most scams how many billions does it take in yearly and there is 0 proof of a God and so far all the EDUCATED people apparently can't deliver proof either ... Just what's in some book to keep the scam going.
As for understanding why people believe, again I've stated it's a comfort thing, we are likely the one species who imagines their own death and believing in a mystical place is a far more comforting thought than worm food.
I'm atheist. But I don't shove it down people's throats disrespectfully. Just something to think about.
I feel that Atheists are stuck in a world where religion is a dominant factor. They are subjected to this religious world. So I can't say I blame some Atheists for feeling frustrated and shoving back a little. I feel that Atheists have religion shoved down their throats on a fairly regular basis and live in a world pretty much BUILT on religion, and watch actual POLITICIANS try and rule people WITH religion around the world (even in America!), and Atheists generally take it pretty fucking well, all things considered. A little disrespect might be warranted. Nobody's perfect, and I think it's reasonable that Atheists feel a level of frustration sometimes and express the frustration, maybe even lash out once in a while.... with words. Plus, so the fuck what if people are offended???? Does that even mean anything at all?? I don't really think so.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I feel that Atheists are stuck in a world where religion is a dominant factor. They are subjected to this religious world. So I can't say I blame some Atheists for feeling frustrated and shoving back a little. I feel that Atheists have religion shoved down their throats on a fairly regular basis and live in a world pretty much BUILT on religion, and watch actual POLITICIANS try and rule people WITH religion around the world (even in America!), and Atheists generally take it pretty fucking well, all things considered. A little disrespect might be warranted. Nobody's perfect, and I think it's reasonable that Atheists feel a level of frustration sometimes and express the frustration, maybe even lash out once in a while.... with words. Plus, so the fuck what if people are offended???? Does that even mean anything at all?? I don't really think so.
a little disrespect is never warranted. people are brought up with religion, this is how they are taught, and they are taught it as if it's fact, not a possibility. just ask my brother; born again baptist, who I just had an argument of "fact vs faith" a few days ago. I posted something on my facebook page from the God facebook page (fucking funny) and he got all offended, saying it was "twisting the facts". I said "no facts in religion, bro, sorry, that's what the word faith means".
if you wish to be respected, then you must also treat others with respect. Have I ever been a dick to a christian for shoving their beliefs down my throat? just ask my wife, who is catholic. but I've learned the best way to deal with that is to just say "not for me" or fuck with them and say "I'm a Satanist" or some shit. But there's no real reason to be calling people names for their belief system.
I personally don't think atheists are oppressed or anything, not unless they allow themselves to be. I don't even really identify as an atheist anymore, as I realized a while back that identifying as something I'm NOT doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. that's like someone asking me what I do for a living and answering with "not a doctor".
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I feel that Atheists are stuck in a world where religion is a dominant factor. They are subjected to this religious world. So I can't say I blame some Atheists for feeling frustrated and shoving back a little. I feel that Atheists have religion shoved down their throats on a fairly regular basis and live in a world pretty much BUILT on religion, and watch actual POLITICIANS try and rule people WITH religion around the world (even in America!), and Atheists generally take it pretty fucking well, all things considered. A little disrespect might be warranted. Nobody's perfect, and I think it's reasonable that Atheists feel a level of frustration sometimes and express the frustration, maybe even lash out once in a while.... with words. Plus, so the fuck what if people are offended???? Does that even mean anything at all?? I don't really think so.
a little disrespect is never warranted. people are brought up with religion, this is how they are taught, and they are taught it as if it's fact, not a possibility. just ask my brother; born again baptist, who I just had an argument of "fact vs faith" a few days ago. I posted something on my facebook page from the God facebook page (fucking funny) and he got all offended, saying it was "twisting the facts". I said "no facts in religion, bro, sorry, that's what the word faith means".
if you wish to be respected, then you must also treat others with respect. Have I ever been a dick to a christian for shoving their beliefs down my throat? just ask my wife, who is catholic. but I've learned the best way to deal with that is to just say "not for me" or fuck with them and say "I'm a Satanist" or some shit. But there's no real reason to be calling people names for their belief system.
I personally don't think atheists are oppressed or anything, not unless they allow themselves to be. I don't even really identify as an atheist anymore, as I realized a while back that identifying as something I'm NOT doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. that's like someone asking me what I do for a living and answering with "not a doctor".
I've never been a dick to someone for being religious either, but having an opinion that entails not respecting religion is not the same a disrespecting a person. I mean, if Lukin2006 thinks that people who believe in God are idiot, I think he has a right to that opinion. It's not like he's saying "you are a fucking idiot" so some religious person's face, or anyone in particular. But if he feels that organized religions are bullshit scams, then that seems like an honest opinion to me, and if it happens to offend people, that is their problem, not his.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I feel that Atheists are stuck in a world where religion is a dominant factor. They are subjected to this religious world. So I can't say I blame some Atheists for feeling frustrated and shoving back a little. I feel that Atheists have religion shoved down their throats on a fairly regular basis and live in a world pretty much BUILT on religion, and watch actual POLITICIANS try and rule people WITH religion around the world (even in America!), and Atheists generally take it pretty fucking well, all things considered. A little disrespect might be warranted. Nobody's perfect, and I think it's reasonable that Atheists feel a level of frustration sometimes and express the frustration, maybe even lash out once in a while.... with words. Plus, so the fuck what if people are offended???? Does that even mean anything at all?? I don't really think so.
a little disrespect is never warranted. people are brought up with religion, this is how they are taught, and they are taught it as if it's fact, not a possibility. just ask my brother; born again baptist, who I just had an argument of "fact vs faith" a few days ago. I posted something on my facebook page from the God facebook page (fucking funny) and he got all offended, saying it was "twisting the facts". I said "no facts in religion, bro, sorry, that's what the word faith means".
if you wish to be respected, then you must also treat others with respect. Have I ever been a dick to a christian for shoving their beliefs down my throat? just ask my wife, who is catholic. but I've learned the best way to deal with that is to just say "not for me" or fuck with them and say "I'm a Satanist" or some shit. But there's no real reason to be calling people names for their belief system.
I personally don't think atheists are oppressed or anything, not unless they allow themselves to be. I don't even really identify as an atheist anymore, as I realized a while back that identifying as something I'm NOT doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. that's like someone asking me what I do for a living and answering with "not a doctor".
Oh, and as for your last comment.... Atheism is something, not NOT something. I would say that Atheism is a religion, just not an organized one. Do Atheists have proof that there is NOT a God? I don't think so. Therefore, Atheists need to have faith that there is NOT a God. That sounds like a belief system to me - one requiring faith - not just some void where something simply is not.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,011
Oh, and as for your last comment.... Atheism is something, not NOT something. I would say that Atheism is a religion, just not an organized one. Do Atheists have proof that there is NOT a God? I don't think so. Therefore, Atheists need to have faith that there is NOT a God. That sounds like a belief system to me - one requiring faith - not just some void where something simply is not.
Interesting thought, PJ_Soul! I'm wracking my brain for who it was I read recently who used the term "non-theist". Hmmm- mighta been Henry Rollins. Anyway, the way it was worded it was like a non-theist needs no belief system or faith and yet there was certainly no lack of compassion in what they were saying. Damn! If I could just remember who said that I could find the quote. Maybe it was Jim Jarmusch.
Taken a little further, the idea appeals to me- that is, with enough "faith" in concrete things like the balance of nature or intangibles like love, one can get by quite well without a Faith. Lou Reed once said, "You need a busload of faith to get by," and I think this is what he was getting at there as well.
Oh, and as for your last comment.... Atheism is something, not NOT something. I would say that Atheism is a religion, just not an organized one. Do Atheists have proof that there is NOT a God? I don't think so. Therefore, Atheists need to have faith that there is NOT a God. That sounds like a belief system to me - one requiring faith - not just some void where something simply is not.
so the belief that a certain belief system is not for them is a belief system in itself? that sounds kinda stupid. I'd rather believe in something rather than believe in something I don't believe in.
so, if' I'm an accountant, am I an accountant, or a non-doctor?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Oh, and as for your last comment.... Atheism is something, not NOT something. I would say that Atheism is a religion, just not an organized one. Do Atheists have proof that there is NOT a God? I don't think so. Therefore, Atheists need to have faith that there is NOT a God. That sounds like a belief system to me - one requiring faith - not just some void where something simply is not.
so the belief that a certain belief system is not for them is a belief system in itself? that sounds kinda stupid. I'd rather believe in something rather than believe in something I don't believe in.
so, if' I'm an accountant, am I an accountant, or a non-doctor?
Atheists maintain faith that God doesn't exist in the face of an entire world's population that insists that he does. Those who believe in God maintain faith that God exists in the face of science and logic. The entire concept of religion relies on the fact that it is based on faith. That's what it's all about, really. How come faith is something to be admired in those who believe in God, but it's stupid for those who don't? Also, there are Atheists who are passive and Atheists who have more complex belief systems. Some are basically indifferent, some feel invested in their beliefs and weigh them against other beliefs. Sounds just like those who are religious to me. Atheism shapes people's world views (and even matters of the after life) just like non-Atheists' religions do.... I don't think that Atheism should be blown off like you are doing. As a practicing Atheist, I actually find it very dismissive.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Really ... Well I've already explained why because I think it's bullshit, it's scam ... Like most scams how many billions does it take in yearly and there is 0 proof of a God and so far all the EDUCATED people apparently can't deliver proof either ... Just what's in some book to keep the scam going.
As for understanding why people believe, again I've stated it's a comfort thing, we are likely the one species who imagines their own death and believing in a mystical place is a far more comforting thought than worm food.
I'm atheist. But I don't shove it down people's throats disrespectfully. Just something to think about.
and that's fine ... I don't like scams ... and I'm not shoving nothing down anyone's throat. But seriously most of us are introduced to religion when where young and impressionable ... why is that? easier to hook us and reel us in maybe. Some of us escape and realize that we are being sold bullshit. It's just a scam and like most scam's it involves money.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I feel that Atheists are stuck in a world where religion is a dominant factor. They are subjected to this religious world. So I can't say I blame some Atheists for feeling frustrated and shoving back a little. I feel that Atheists have religion shoved down their throats on a fairly regular basis and live in a world pretty much BUILT on religion, and watch actual POLITICIANS try and rule people WITH religion around the world (even in America!), and Atheists generally take it pretty fucking well, all things considered. A little disrespect might be warranted. Nobody's perfect, and I think it's reasonable that Atheists feel a level of frustration sometimes and express the frustration, maybe even lash out once in a while.... with words. Plus, so the fuck what if people are offended???? Does that even mean anything at all?? I don't really think so.
a little disrespect is never warranted. people are brought up with religion, this is how they are taught, and they are taught it as if it's fact, not a possibility. just ask my brother; born again baptist, who I just had an argument of "fact vs faith" a few days ago. I posted something on my facebook page from the God facebook page (fucking funny) and he got all offended, saying it was "twisting the facts". I said "no facts in religion, bro, sorry, that's what the word faith means".
if you wish to be respected, then you must also treat others with respect. Have I ever been a dick to a christian for shoving their beliefs down my throat? just ask my wife, who is catholic. but I've learned the best way to deal with that is to just say "not for me" or fuck with them and say "I'm a Satanist" or some shit. But there's no real reason to be calling people names for their belief system.
I personally don't think atheists are oppressed or anything, not unless they allow themselves to be. I don't even really identify as an atheist anymore, as I realized a while back that identifying as something I'm NOT doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. that's like someone asking me what I do for a living and answering with "not a doctor".
I've never been a dick to someone for being religious either, but having an opinion that entails not respecting religion is not the same a disrespecting a person. I mean, if Lukin2006 thinks that people who believe in God are idiot, I think he has a right to that opinion. It's not like he's saying "you are a fucking idiot" so some religious person's face, or anyone in particular. But if he feels that organized religions are bullshit scams, then that seems like an honest opinion to me, and if it happens to offend people, that is their problem, not his.
Thank you ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I feel that Atheists are stuck in a world where religion is a dominant factor. They are subjected to this religious world. So I can't say I blame some Atheists for feeling frustrated and shoving back a little. I feel that Atheists have religion shoved down their throats on a fairly regular basis and live in a world pretty much BUILT on religion, and watch actual POLITICIANS try and rule people WITH religion around the world (even in America!), and Atheists generally take it pretty fucking well, all things considered. A little disrespect might be warranted. Nobody's perfect, and I think it's reasonable that Atheists feel a level of frustration sometimes and express the frustration, maybe even lash out once in a while.... with words. Plus, so the fuck what if people are offended???? Does that even mean anything at all?? I don't really think so.
a little disrespect is never warranted. people are brought up with religion, this is how they are taught, and they are taught it as if it's fact, not a possibility. just ask my brother; born again baptist, who I just had an argument of "fact vs faith" a few days ago. I posted something on my facebook page from the God facebook page (fucking funny) and he got all offended, saying it was "twisting the facts". I said "no facts in religion, bro, sorry, that's what the word faith means".
if you wish to be respected, then you must also treat others with respect. Have I ever been a dick to a christian for shoving their beliefs down my throat? just ask my wife, who is catholic. but I've learned the best way to deal with that is to just say "not for me" or fuck with them and say "I'm a Satanist" or some shit. But there's no real reason to be calling people names for their belief system.
I personally don't think atheists are oppressed or anything, not unless they allow themselves to be. I don't even really identify as an atheist anymore, as I realized a while back that identifying as something I'm NOT doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. that's like someone asking me what I do for a living and answering with "not a doctor".
Oh, and as for your last comment.... Atheism is something, not NOT something. I would say that Atheism is a religion, just not an organized one. Do Atheists have proof that there is NOT a God? I don't think so. Therefore, Atheists need to have faith that there is NOT a God. That sounds like a belief system to me - one requiring faith - not just some void where something simply is not.
Very well said. I don't think atheist have an official book? we need a book!!
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
a little disrespect is never warranted. people are brought up with religion, this is how they are taught, and they are taught it as if it's fact, not a possibility. just ask my brother; born again baptist, who I just had an argument of "fact vs faith" a few days ago. I posted something on my facebook page from the God facebook page (fucking funny) and he got all offended, saying it was "twisting the facts". I said "no facts in religion, bro, sorry, that's what the word faith means".
if you wish to be respected, then you must also treat others with respect. Have I ever been a dick to a christian for shoving their beliefs down my throat? just ask my wife, who is catholic. but I've learned the best way to deal with that is to just say "not for me" or fuck with them and say "I'm a Satanist" or some shit. But there's no real reason to be calling people names for their belief system.
I personally don't think atheists are oppressed or anything, not unless they allow themselves to be. I don't even really identify as an atheist anymore, as I realized a while back that identifying as something I'm NOT doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. that's like someone asking me what I do for a living and answering with "not a doctor".
Oh, and as for your last comment.... Atheism is something, not NOT something. I would say that Atheism is a religion, just not an organized one. Do Atheists have proof that there is NOT a God? I don't think so. Therefore, Atheists need to have faith that there is NOT a God. That sounds like a belief system to me - one requiring faith - not just some void where something simply is not.
Very well said. I don't think atheist have an official book? we need a book!!
Yikes, that would mean getting organized. The last thing the world needs is another organized religion!!
But there are plenty of books about the philosophy of Atheism. One title that comes to mind, which I found in Value Village, is "Atheism: The (A?) Case Against God". But I read it years ago - I can't remember how good it was. I do remember thinking that it made a lot of good points logically ... I don't think it addressed anything like the affects of Atheism on one's world view or faith, etc, but I could be forgetting things. It's more like a text one might use in a Philosophy of Religion course that has a unit on Atheism vs. belief in God.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I am an Atheist (non-theist? whatever, i just don't believe in god), and I completely disagree with both of you
As far as I am concerned, the burden of proof is upon those making the positive claim. I don't need proof that there is no god any more than I need proof that there are no Fairies. There is no scientific evidence that there is a God, therefore there is no need to prove that there isn't one. There is no evidence to dispute! Lots of other people believing in it is not evidence. Historically people have believed in all sorts of crazy nonsense, having lots of believers does not lend a notion credence in itself.
So no, I dispute that I need faith, faith is religious terminology, I don't view the world through that lense. Nobody has ever given me a reason to believe in god, I don't need faith to simply not believe in something for which there is no evidence.
And I wouldn't want a book either. It would be a very short book for me, it would just say "I don't believe in God, the end."
I am an Atheist (non-theist? whatever, i just don't believe in god), and I completely disagree with both of you
As far as I am concerned, the burden of proof is upon those making the positive claim. I don't need proof that there is no god any more than I need proof that there are no Fairies. There is no scientific evidence that there is a God, therefore there is no need to prove that there isn't one. There is no evidence to dispute! Lots of other people believing in it is not evidence. Historically people have believed in all sorts of crazy nonsense, having lots of believers does not lend a notion credence in itself.
So no, I dispute that I need faith, faith is religious terminology, I don't view the world through that lense. Nobody has ever given me a reason to believe in god, I don't need faith to simply not believe in something for which there is no evidence.
And I wouldn't want a book either. It would be a very short book for me, it would just say "I don't believe in God, the end."
That means you are more of a passive Atheist. I'm not.
I agree with you about the BURDEN of proof being upon believers assuming we want someone to prove something and we are debating the issue ... but that does not mean that there is proof that God does not exist, which does mean we need faith to believe it (granted, we don't need nearly as much faith ).
It can also be thought of in this sense: what about Buddhists? Isn't that considered a religion? They don't believe in God. Instead they just have a philosophy. A belief system that does not involve God, but rather a connection between all things. How are Atheists any different? It's safe to assume that just about every Atheist believes in Nature/Science and that Nature/Science is a power greater than themselves (albeit not conscious).
I dunno. Obviously I see a lot more going on with Atheism that you folks.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Science isn't the exclusive domain of the atheistic though, everybody believes in science to some extent. Even the religious. Two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom make water. That's indisputable whatever religion you are.
I'm not going to take science and call it the belief system of the non religious, that's enormously insulting to most of the population of the world.
It's not up to science to prove there is no god, it's up to science to prove there is a god, and it can't.
Science isn't the exclusive domain of the atheistic though, everybody believes in science to some extent. Even the religious. Two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom make water. That's indisputable whatever religion you are.
I'm not going to take science and call it the belief system of the non religious, that's enormously insulting to most of the population of the world.
It's not up to science to prove there is no god, it's up to science to prove there is a god, and it can't.
I am not saying that religious people don't believe in science of course.
Science is not a living being. It's the study of natural processes. Science can't prove shit. People do that. And people form a world view based on what science reveals as well as what they view as the fact of no God in a world where most people believe in one.
I'm getting the impression that you guys just don't understand what I am saying. I'll assume it must be my fault in that I'm not explaining it very well. Although there is a possibility that you also have kind of a restricted idea of what belief and faith is?? Maybe it's all the god-based religion in the world skewing the outlook. :think:
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
When I refer to science, I am talking about people employing the scientific method of course, I thought that would go without saying...
And no, I get what you are saying, I just think the amount of faith required to not believe in something which has no evidence is so negligible as to be not worth discussing. Certainly it is for me.
When I refer to science, I am talking about people employing the scientific method of course, I thought that would go without saying...
And no, I get what you are saying, I just think the amount of faith required to not believe in something which has no evidence is so negligible as to be not worth discussing. Certainly it is for me.
.... Definitely not for me or a lot of other Atheists, because as I said before, Atheism is not simply about not believing in God. Atheism requires a fairly complex belief system in this world. It may not feel complex because it's a part of us, but it is not a simple matter in a world of religion IMO..
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
.... Definitely not for me or a lot of other Atheists, because as I said before, Atheism is not simply about not believing in God. Atheism requires a fairly complex belief system in this world. It may not feel complex because it's a part of us, but it is not a simple matter in a world of religion IMO..
See this is why I don't think a book would help, it would be very different for every atheist I think! I respect how you feel, but I just don't feel like that myself.
Perhaps it is the country I live in? Religion is not in your face here, I don't get looked at funny if I say I am atheist, my sister is the only religious person I know! She's the one who gets looked at funny It's not a complicated matter for me, it just isn't something I even think about from day to day.
Comments
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
interesting the most vocal on a subject is admittedly the least educated on it.
my god is the sun, not an omni-dude. But at least I can explain why and also understand why others would believe differently than I do with respect.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
And
"If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."
And
"Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy."
And
"O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things."
And
"Allah enjoins you concerning your children: The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females; then if they are more than two females, they shall have two-thirds of what the deceased has left, and if there is one, she shall have the half; and as for his parents, each of them shall have the sixth of what he has left if he has a child, but if he has no child and (only) his two parents inherit him, then his mother shall have the third; but if he has brothers, then his mother shall have the sixth after (the payment of) a bequest he may have bequeathed or a debt; your parents and your children, you know not which of them is the nearer to you in usefulness; this is an ordinance from Allah: Surely Allah is Knowing, Wise."
Yes, it is easy to find direct quotes from the Quran that show how Islam does not consider women equal to men. As a woman, I find it offensive when people try to claim that women are equal to men in Islam because it denies that there is a big problem in this regard both in the religion and in the culture.
Pictures of the escape are included in the link:
http://www.businessinsider.com/abdul-haji-the-man-behind-westgate-photo-2013-9
How a human being can get so bent out of shape to do what these horrific humans did is just beyond me.
I get so angry and sad thinking of the poor people in that mall- going shopping and then... wtf? Oh shit. Surreal.
Really ... Well I've already explained why because I think it's bullshit, it's scam ... Like most scams how many billions does it take in yearly and there is 0 proof of a God and so far all the EDUCATED people apparently can't deliver proof either ... Just what's in some book to keep the scam going.
As for understanding why people believe, again I've stated it's a comfort thing, we are likely the one species who imagines their own death and believing in a mystical place is a far more comforting thought than worm food.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Godfather.
I'm atheist. But I don't shove it down people's throats disrespectfully. Just something to think about.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
a little disrespect is never warranted. people are brought up with religion, this is how they are taught, and they are taught it as if it's fact, not a possibility. just ask my brother; born again baptist, who I just had an argument of "fact vs faith" a few days ago. I posted something on my facebook page from the God facebook page (fucking funny) and he got all offended, saying it was "twisting the facts". I said "no facts in religion, bro, sorry, that's what the word faith means".
if you wish to be respected, then you must also treat others with respect. Have I ever been a dick to a christian for shoving their beliefs down my throat? just ask my wife, who is catholic. but I've learned the best way to deal with that is to just say "not for me" or fuck with them and say "I'm a Satanist" or some shit. But there's no real reason to be calling people names for their belief system.
I personally don't think atheists are oppressed or anything, not unless they allow themselves to be. I don't even really identify as an atheist anymore, as I realized a while back that identifying as something I'm NOT doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. that's like someone asking me what I do for a living and answering with "not a doctor".
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Interesting thought, PJ_Soul! I'm wracking my brain for who it was I read recently who used the term "non-theist". Hmmm- mighta been Henry Rollins. Anyway, the way it was worded it was like a non-theist needs no belief system or faith and yet there was certainly no lack of compassion in what they were saying. Damn! If I could just remember who said that I could find the quote. Maybe it was Jim Jarmusch.
Taken a little further, the idea appeals to me- that is, with enough "faith" in concrete things like the balance of nature or intangibles like love, one can get by quite well without a Faith. Lou Reed once said, "You need a busload of faith to get by," and I think this is what he was getting at there as well.
so the belief that a certain belief system is not for them is a belief system in itself? that sounds kinda stupid. I'd rather believe in something rather than believe in something I don't believe in.
so, if' I'm an accountant, am I an accountant, or a non-doctor?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
and that's fine ... I don't like scams ... and I'm not shoving nothing down anyone's throat. But seriously most of us are introduced to religion when where young and impressionable ... why is that? easier to hook us and reel us in maybe. Some of us escape and realize that we are being sold bullshit. It's just a scam and like most scam's it involves money.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Thank you ...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Very well said. I don't think atheist have an official book? we need a book!!
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
But there are plenty of books about the philosophy of Atheism. One title that comes to mind, which I found in Value Village, is "Atheism: The (A?) Case Against God". But I read it years ago - I can't remember how good it was. I do remember thinking that it made a lot of good points logically ... I don't think it addressed anything like the affects of Atheism on one's world view or faith, etc, but I could be forgetting things. It's more like a text one might use in a Philosophy of Religion course that has a unit on Atheism vs. belief in God.
As far as I am concerned, the burden of proof is upon those making the positive claim. I don't need proof that there is no god any more than I need proof that there are no Fairies. There is no scientific evidence that there is a God, therefore there is no need to prove that there isn't one. There is no evidence to dispute! Lots of other people believing in it is not evidence. Historically people have believed in all sorts of crazy nonsense, having lots of believers does not lend a notion credence in itself.
So no, I dispute that I need faith, faith is religious terminology, I don't view the world through that lense. Nobody has ever given me a reason to believe in god, I don't need faith to simply not believe in something for which there is no evidence.
And I wouldn't want a book either. It would be a very short book for me, it would just say "I don't believe in God, the end."
I agree with you about the BURDEN of proof being upon believers assuming we want someone to prove something and we are debating the issue ... but that does not mean that there is proof that God does not exist, which does mean we need faith to believe it (granted, we don't need nearly as much faith
It can also be thought of in this sense: what about Buddhists? Isn't that considered a religion? They don't believe in God. Instead they just have a philosophy. A belief system that does not involve God, but rather a connection between all things. How are Atheists any different? It's safe to assume that just about every Atheist believes in Nature/Science and that Nature/Science is a power greater than themselves (albeit not conscious).
I dunno. Obviously I see a lot more going on with Atheism that you folks.
I'm not going to take science and call it the belief system of the non religious, that's enormously insulting to most of the population of the world.
It's not up to science to prove there is no god, it's up to science to prove there is a god, and it can't.
Science is not a living being. It's the study of natural processes. Science can't prove shit. People do that. And people form a world view based on what science reveals as well as what they view as the fact of no God in a world where most people believe in one.
I'm getting the impression that you guys just don't understand what I am saying. I'll assume it must be my fault in that I'm not explaining it very well. Although there is a possibility that you also have kind of a restricted idea of what belief and faith is?? Maybe it's all the god-based religion in the world skewing the outlook. :think:
And no, I get what you are saying, I just think the amount of faith required to not believe in something which has no evidence is so negligible as to be not worth discussing. Certainly it is for me.
See this is why I don't think a book would help, it would be very different for every atheist I think! I respect how you feel, but I just don't feel like that myself.
Perhaps it is the country I live in? Religion is not in your face here, I don't get looked at funny if I say I am atheist, my sister is the only religious person I know! She's the one who gets looked at funny
Each to their own though