If you're muslim you can leave, dead if not

lukin2006 · September 2013

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Plus...aren't all the West's wars allegedly about resources? How can they be holy wars and oil wars all at the same time?

I don't think there's a singular answer, but I personally believe it has as much to do with resources as it does with making easterly people westerly.

doubtful ... more like the other way around. Canada goes above and beyond to protect the human rights of all people's coming to this country ... unfortunately we do a terrible job at figuring how to better our first nations people's.

ajedigecko · September 2013

It "seems like" there are more Muslim extremists than peaceful ones? Yes i guess if your whole worldview is informed by Fox News and the conservative blogosphere you probably would think that. Anyone with a modicum of world experience or critical thinking ability should be able to work out immediately such a scenario is mathematically absurd.[/quote]

...and this reasoning must be used, when talking about how guns are bad.[/quote]

They can't answer that one....[/quote]

Sure we can. The reasoning holds even if the comparison is weak.

Are the majority of muslims fundamentalist extremists? No. Are all muslim fundamentalist extremists dangerous? Yes.

Are all gun owners likely to commit a gun related crime? No. Are all guns dangerous? Yes.[/quote]

Are all gun owners likely to commit a gun related crime? No. Are all gun owners dangerous? No.

JimmyV · September 2013

ajedigecko wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Sure we can. The reasoning holds even if the comparison is weak.

Are the majority of muslims fundamentalist extremists? No. Are all muslim fundamentalist extremists dangerous? Yes.

Are all gun owners likely to commit a gun related crime? No. Are all guns dangerous? Yes.

Are all gun owners likely to commit a gun related crime? No. Are all gun owners dangerous? No.

Your question was not about gun owners. Your question was about guns.

ajedigecko wrote:

...and this reasoning must be used, when talking about how guns are bad.

Godfather. · September 2013

badbrains wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

not what I was refering to, his jabs and fox new comments must be all he has to back up his statement.
and "oh my God WHITE PEOPLE" come on man really...do youthink other religions here in America or Canada are are as extreame with their violence ? and take pride in choping off heads and airing via you tube ? you need to see it for what it really is just like you do when you talk about other topics.

Godfather.

No, we, us Americans, just drop bombs from 2 miles up, watch it from the comfort of our home tv. and say those Muslims are evil savages! Please, you have ZERO clue about what's going on in the world and yet you called a lot of us sheep. Now that's funny.....

As for question about infidels and Islam, dude, my favorite band has a lead singer who's an atheist. How the fuck would I go see them play over 77 times if your theory about Islam is right? Wake up GF, the world is all around you, not just on your tv screen.

even with your sharp tone....I like your comment, but my question was about the koran not you personally.

Godfather.

JimmyV · September 2013

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Plus...aren't all the West's wars allegedly about resources? How can they be holy wars and oil wars all at the same time?

I don't think there's a singular answer, but I personally believe it has as much to do with resources as it does with making easterly people westerly.

Aside from the neocon fantasy of spreading democracy I don't really see a lot of that. I agree that resources are often a driving cause but holy wars? Are there examples you can point to?

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2013

lukin2006 wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Plus...aren't all the West's wars allegedly about resources? How can they be holy wars and oil wars all at the same time?

I don't think there's a singular answer, but I personally believe it has as much to do with resources as it does with making easterly people westerly.

doubtful ... more like the other way around. Canada goes above and beyond to protect the human rights of all people's coming to this country ... unfortunately we do a terrible job at figuring how to better our first nations people's.

Canada didn't go to Iraq. The US did.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2013

JimmyV wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Plus...aren't all the West's wars allegedly about resources? How can they be holy wars and oil wars all at the same time?

I don't think there's a singular answer, but I personally believe it has as much to do with resources as it does with making easterly people westerly.

Aside from the neocon fantasy of spreading democracy I don't really see a lot of that. I agree that resources are often a driving cause but holy wars? Are there examples you can point to?

maybe holy war has put people's ears up a bit. I just meant spreading western philosophy as the US government sees it. Democracy, Christianity, etc.

if you don't think anyone has been spreading christian culture disguised as help look no further than Sally Struthers.

JimmyV · September 2013

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Aside from the neocon fantasy of spreading democracy I don't really see a lot of that. I agree that resources are often a driving cause but holy wars? Are there examples you can point to?

maybe holy war has put people's ears up a bit. I just meant spreading western philosophy as the US government sees it. Democracy, Christianity, etc.

if you don't think anyone has been spreading christian culture disguised as help look no further than Sally Struthers.

I hear you but I don't think Christianity is something the US government is trying to spread. Are there groups and individuals ala Sally Struthers who are? Absolutely. As far as the government and military go though we seem to be pretty hands off when it comes to local religions. I don't see a Federal push to spread Christianity across the globe.

Jason P · September 2013

I think food drives work a little better in spreading one's message versus, you know ... blowing up a mall and killing a bunch of men, women, children, and unborn children. Maybe that's just me.

badbrains · September 2013

Jason P wrote:

I think food drives work a little better in spreading one's message versus, you know ... blowing up a mall and killing a bunch of men, women, children, and unborn children. Maybe that's just me.

And 1000% positive that Muslims in the Middle East agree with you. They to don't want there mosques, schools and factories blown up. Both sides are guilty no doubt, but to sit here and pretend that ONLY MUSLIMS are terrorist is straight up BULLSHIT. I mean, we threaten countries by telling them to change leaders or else we'll bomb them. Just last week we did it with syria only we didn't attack them.(yet) that's terrorism wether you choose to believe it or NOT! Ya all Muslims are terrorists, I wonder what they would do to me if they knew I was a huge follower of atheist me vedder. Maybe I better hide my faith...... :roll:

As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in. The funny thing is is that the diff in these 2 religions aren't that many. The 1 main diff is that Christians believe that Jesus is gods son whereas Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet, a great prophet at that may I add. We share so much in common in the religion aside from the violence we also share. But what's sad is that a very few have fucked it up for all of us, Christians and Muslims. What's really sad is that some can't see it.

PJ_Soul · September 2013

aerial wrote:

goingtoverona wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/39-dead-kenya-mall-attack-hostages-still-held-212623649.html

Coming to a town near you if nothing is done about the Brotherhood that has infiltrated Washington...

“When someone says that there is penetration of jihadi Islamists within society, do not dismiss it as some right-wing, xenophobic, racist rant,” warned Fatah, a Canadian journalist.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2011/08/337321/#3R0xjFscKTuV6mel.99

I actually agree. No, all Muslims should not be lumped in with this kind of thing, OF COURSE. However, 20 - 30% of Muslims from the Middle East region, plus small groups scattered around the world can be considered to have extremist Islamic views, and that is nothing to sneeze at to say the least. That is a huge, massive threat that shouldn't be be underestimated in the world today. That said, apparently 90% of terrorism in the US (which includes mass shootings) is committed by non-Muslims. 10% is still nothing to sneeze at of course, but still.... perspective. Anyway, this incident in Nairobi is absolutely horrible, and yes, I think more fucking Islamic nutjobs doing the same in other places in the world is a real concern. I'm sure this incident has bolstered their confidence and captures the attention of fresh recruits, as these kinds of incidents always do. With each attack, the threat gets larger.

And yeah, I'm just spewing out numbers without links. Sorry. I'm just repeating what I've read here and there.

PJ_Soul · September 2013

badbrains wrote:

Jason P wrote:

I think food drives work a little better in spreading one's message versus, you know ... blowing up a mall and killing a bunch of men, women, children, and unborn children. Maybe that's just me.

And 1000% positive that Muslims in the Middle East agree with you. They to don't want there mosques, schools and factories blown up. Both sides are guilty no doubt, but to sit here and pretend that ONLY MUSLIMS are terrorist is straight up BULLSHIT. I mean, we threaten countries by telling them to change leaders or else we'll bomb them. Just last week we did it with syria only we didn't attack them.(yet) that's terrorism wether you choose to believe it or NOT! Ya all Muslims are terrorists, I wonder what they would do to me if they knew I was a huge follower of atheist me vedder. Maybe I better hide my faith...... :roll:

As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in. The funny thing is is that the diff in these 2 religions aren't that many. The 1 main diff is that Christians believe that Jesus is gods son whereas Muslims believe that Jesus is a prophet, a great prophet at that may I add. We share so much in common in the religion aside from the violence we also share. But what's sad is that a very few have fucked it up for all of us, Christians and Muslims. What's really sad is that some can't see it.

So as an Atheist, I should feel the most threatened I guess, being the infidel. Sucks to be me.
(extremists, of which there are many, do not view it that way, obviously - not much point in talking about normal, moderate Muslims while having this conversation, really)

Thirty Bills Unpaid · September 2013

badbrains wrote:

As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in.

This is still troubling.

So... anyone that doesn't believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere should perish at the hands of those that do believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere?

PJ_Soul · September 2013

JimmyV wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

Aside from the neocon fantasy of spreading democracy I don't really see a lot of that. I agree that resources are often a driving cause but holy wars? Are there examples you can point to?

maybe holy war has put people's ears up a bit. I just meant spreading western philosophy as the US government sees it. Democracy, Christianity, etc.

if you don't think anyone has been spreading christian culture disguised as help look no further than Sally Struthers.

I hear you but I don't think Christianity is something the US government is trying to spread. Are there groups and individuals ala Sally Struthers who are? Absolutely. As far as the government and military go though we seem to be pretty hands off when it comes to local religions. I don't see a Federal push to spread Christianity across the globe.

Neither do I. Democracy, yes (which is a completely ridiculous thing to try and do, since it just doesn't work that way), but not Christianity. You have to look towards the leadership of Christian organizations before making that accusation.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2013

PJ_Soul wrote:

Neither do I. Democracy, yes (which is a completely ridiculous thing to try and do, since it just doesn't work that way), but not Christianity. You have to look towards the leadership of Christian organizations before making that accusation.

Christianity is not a religion. Catholicism is. Look at how often the US President mentions God in his speeches, etc, and you'll understand that the western way of life that the US is trying to manipulate others into emulating isn't just about the clothes we wear.

and yes, forcing democracy, or any other way of life contrary to the one in place, onto another group of people, is unbelievably stupid. it's just not possible.

JimmyV · September 2013

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Neither do I. Democracy, yes (which is a completely ridiculous thing to try and do, since it just doesn't work that way), but not Christianity. You have to look towards the leadership of Christian organizations before making that accusation.

Christianity is not a religion. Catholicism is. Look at how often the US President mentions God in his speeches, etc, and you'll understand that the western way of life that the US is trying to manipulate others into emulating isn't just about the clothes we wear.

and yes, forcing democracy, or any other way of life contrary to the one in place, onto another group of people, is unbelievably stupid. it's just not possible.

When an American president mentions god he is guilty of pandering to certain domestic constituencies, not of trying to manipulate anyone into anything. Also, of the 44 Presidents of the United States, only one has been Catholic.

Cosmo · September 2013

I think we have to ask ourselves...
What is more chickenshit?
A. Taking up small arms and going into a mall and shooting up unarmed people... or...
B. Dropping a bomb on the roof of an apartment building from a remote controlled airplane on the other side of the world?
...
Give yourself a Gold Star if you said they are both chickenshit... different means... same results.
You can't call side A. chickenshit if you are commiting the actions of side B. (and vice-versa).

Thirty Bills Unpaid · September 2013

Cosmo wrote:

I think we have to ask ourselves...
What is more chickenshit?
A. Taking up small arms and going into a mall and shooting up unarmed people... or...
B. Dropping a bomb on the roof of an apartment building from a remote controlled airplane on the other side of the world?
...
Give yourself a Gold Star if you said they are both chickenshit... different means... same results.
You can't call side A. chickenshit if you are commiting the actions of side B. (and vice-versa).

Both are deplorable and ultimately... the same.

I think the discussion has moved to what motivates the people in the two scenarios you have presented. It is suggested that option 'A' chickenshit is motivated by fanatical religious beliefs, while option 'B' chickenshit is motivated by obtaining resources and furthering one's prosperity.

I think the fair question to ask is: does it really matter what the motivating factors are for human beings to kill other human beings? The deaths pile up the same regardless of what might be driving a group to kill; therefore, motivation is truly irrelevant.

Hugh Freaking Dillon · September 2013

JimmyV wrote:

When an American president mentions god he is guilty of pandering to certain domestic constituencies, not of trying to manipulate anyone into anything. Also, of the 44 Presidents of the United States, only one has been Catholic.

I know that, I just mean that it's a larger part of the american culture than I think a lot of people are ready to admit.

badbrains · September 2013

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

badbrains wrote:

As for the Quran GF, when it says infidel it's speaking as one who has no faith or belief in god. God, as in the same god Christians and Muslims believe in.

This is still troubling.

So... anyone that doesn't believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere should perish at the hands of those that do believe in an omnipresent, eternal and divine being living in the clouds somewhere?

Wow, I didn't say it says go and kill all infidels. Look I've stated in the past that I'm not a big follower of my religion but I do know 1 thing that stuck out to me about Islam. It says that anyone Muslim who kills another human being will be punished by god as if he has killed all of humanity. If you're really interested, go to a mosque and talk to an imam. Believe me when I say they'll welcome you in with open arms.

If you're muslim you can leave, dead if not

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