Last nights wasnt bad, with the previews of the remaining 2 looking good.
Oh, it was so bad. The whole thing with Harrison falling on the treadmill...which led to Hannah taking him to the ER. It's lazy writing.
They're not even trying anymore.
PBM
Yup. Like she wouldn't have Deb's cell #? Come on. At least have a wig or something to mask your identity!
I hate the way this show is going out. Hate it.
The part where Dexter said when they leave they wont be looking for a family. Know what else would hide Hannah? Dyed hair, and a hair cut, maybe stop dressing like a super model. What a joke. But a kid and a husband no one would ever spot Hannah then.
Even the stuff with Deb is stupid. She was always smarter than this, and stood up for herself. The fact she is letting Hannah stay at her place is so out of character. She use to be my favorite character but i cant take any character seriously anymore except Batista and Quinn.
The only ending that I will have respect for Dexter is if he kills himself cause he realizes what a joke he has become. Maybe Deb can kick the chair out from under him.
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Dexter airing on the same night as Breaking Bad's last season isn't doing it any favors either. While every episode of BB gets better, each episode of Dexter seems to get even worse. What's sad is that I thought season 1 was really up there with Breaking Bad and some of the other greats.
I ended up watching Sunday's episode. Why did the writers think it was more important to show Masuka's daughter high than showing Dexter telling Batista he was leaving? I didn't think that converstaion between Dexter and Batista seemed very realistic either...maybe that's why the writers wrote the Masuka scene...or they had to find a way to shoehorn that actress in the episode for some reason.
Hannah never changing anything about her (wig, hair color, glasses) all season has been annoying.
The scene with Harrison falling was laughably bad.
I read that the writers actually wanted to end the series after season 7, but Showtime even wanted to continue it until at least season 9...maybe the rumored Dexter spinoff is the compromise?
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Dexter airing on the same night as Breaking Bad's last season isn't doing it any favors either. While every episode of BB gets better, each episode of Dexter seems to get even worse. What's sad is that I thought season 1 was really up there with Breaking Bad and some of the other greats.
I ended up watching Sunday's episode. Why did the writers think it was more important to show Masuka's daughter high than showing Dexter telling Batista he was leaving? I didn't think that converstaion between Dexter and Batista seemed very realistic either...maybe that's why the writers wrote the Masuka scene...or they had to find a way to shoehorn that actress in the episode for some reason.
Hannah never changing anything about her (wig, hair color, glasses) all season has been annoying.
The scene with Harrison falling was laughably bad.
I read that the writers actually wanted to end the series after season 7, but Showtime even wanted to continue it until at least season 9...maybe the rumored Dexter spinoff is the compromise?
Horrible show! Absolutely Horrible.
What is the rumor of a spin off? Dexter goes around changing serial killers into not being serial killers?
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Oh, it was so bad. The whole thing with Harrison falling on the treadmill...which led to Hannah taking him to the ER. It's lazy writing.
They're not even trying anymore.
PBM
Yup. Like she wouldn't have Deb's cell #? Come on. At least have a wig or something to mask your identity!
I hate the way this show is going out. Hate it.
Besides a few episodes last season, the writing has been so lazy for the past 2-3 seasons. It's a shame that a show that was once so good is going out with such a whimper.
And wouldn't you think that the last season would be Dexter on the verge of being found out instead of this battle with Vogel's son who no one gives a shit about???? It doesn't seem likely, but I hope Dexter somehow gets caught at this point.
Dexter is (or at least was) so good at details...covering things up, etc...yet, he doesn't have the sense to have Hannah change her appearance. Talk about out-of-character.
I'd be curious to hear what the actors think about this season.
PBM
"We paced ourselves and we didn't rush through it and we tried to be as creative as our collective minds would let us be over some course of time instead of just trying to rush through a record"
Besides a few episodes last season, the writing has been so lazy for the past 2-3 seasons. It's a shame that a show that was once so good is going out with such a whimper.
And wouldn't you think that the last season would be Dexter on the verge of being found out instead of this battle with Vogel's son who no one gives a shit about???? It doesn't seem likely, but I hope Dexter somehow gets caught at this point.
Finally get around to watching the most recent episode on DVR last night, man that was awful. This season has sucked. And I agree, wouldn't a story line involving everybody's suspicions that Dexter is a serial killer be much more interesting than all these horrible side stories that nobody cares about? Deb's private detective job - don't care, Masuka and his daughter - don't care, Quinn's on and off again relationship - don't care. I was slightly intrigued with the Vogel story line when I thought she was the killer herself or the puppet master behind it but I hated the way that played out.
The only character people care about is Dexter so wouldn't it have been better if Batista, Quinn, and Matthews all started having suspicions of Dexter and kept closing in on him? This show used to be pretty good but this season was a complete bust for me.
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Oh, it was so bad. The whole thing with Harrison falling on the treadmill...which led to Hannah taking him to the ER. It's lazy writing.
They're not even trying anymore.
PBM
Yup. Like she wouldn't have Deb's cell #? Come on. At least have a wig or something to mask your identity!
I hate the way this show is going out. Hate it.
Besides a few episodes last season, the writing has been so lazy for the past 2-3 seasons. It's a shame that a show that was once so good is going out with such a whimper.
And wouldn't you think that the last season would be Dexter on the verge of being found out instead of this battle with Vogel's son who no one gives a shit about???? It doesn't seem likely, but I hope Dexter somehow gets caught at this point.
and now with 2 episodes left, it would be pointless for him to get caught because there is not enough time for them to focus on the stuff they should be focusing on. it's amazing how bad this show has become.
and now with 2 episodes left, it would be pointless for him to get caught because there is not enough time for them to focus on the stuff they should be focusing on. it's amazing how bad this show has become.
Yep. So dumb. Like I said earlier in this thread, I go from watching Breaking Bad to this mess on Sunday nights. Such a downgrade.
This reminds me of the last season of Entourage. A show that was once so good that became so bad. This may be worse..
I was hoping the final episodes would gear up for an awesome ending but instead it's getting more predictable, and more cheesy. :fp:
The second Harrison wanted to play on the treadmill I KNEW that was going to be a problem.
Like others said, Hannah not changing her appearance at all?!? Not even a hat or sunglasses?!? :fp: Why wouldn't Dexter, the master of detail, possibly suggest that especially if they expect to skip town....via a PLANE?!?!
Yeah, that smokin hot blonde won't stand out at all! :roll:
The whole Vogel story was terrible! I'm glad she's dead!
Also, so at this point the federal deputy knows Hannah, Dexter and Deb are all in cahoots. Soooo...is this how it's going to end? Hannah gets caught and Dex and Deb get charged with aiding and abetting a known fugitive?
I can see it now, the final scene is Dex and Deb standing in front of a judge who charges them and sentences them to probation and community service.
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
That's why the creators didn't have her change her appearance.
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Was talking about how horrible this season is at work today and we kicked around the idea of 'this is all a dream' as how it ends. Im thinking that may be the only ending that would make me accept the nonsense of this season. This is how we envisioned it.
Dexter wakes up in high school sleeping during class. His dad is his teacher, since he taught him the code.... Deb is totally his high school crush, and Vogel is the lunch lady. That's all i got, but i think more time and thought was put into this ending than what we will get from the show's writers.
The most amazing thing about this season is how bad it all really is. It's like they didnt even bother with a good story they knew the fans would watch it no matter what so they just put it in cruise control.
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was better this episode..maybe the finale will be intense
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
While I did like this episode better than last week's, it still amazes me at how lazy the writing has become.
Saxon told Dexter that if he doesn't back off he'd go after Dexter's family. Ok, Dexter lured him in but why wouldn't he think Saxon would go after him and not anyone else in his family? Harrison, Hannah, Deb...who was with him but still! :fp:
Ok, they find out the Feds are on to Hannah. Hannah going to the airport without any disguise. :fp: The airport!!!!! The most secure place one could possibly go, the one place that authorities would put on alert for a smoking hot blond serial killer. :fp: Why the fuck wouldn't they just drive to another state, lay low then fly out from there? Nope, gotta fly out of Miami with the Feds looking for her. :fp:
Saxon getting caught. Ok, well done Deb and Dex! Fed guy releasing some random guy who he doesn't know sitting next to a table of knives at the very location he followed a detective to. Call it in? Nope. Find Deb to ask "hey, who's the guy strapped down on the table right next to a pile of knives? Nope. Did anyone else notice that when Deb went in to the hospital it was dark, then 10 minutes later when Dexter and her walk out to say their goodbye's it's at LEAST 10AM by how bright it was. Did they really sit and chitchat about things for 8 hours? :fp:
Dark Passenger or not, there was no way Dexter of old would have let Saxon off. He knows EVERYTHING about Dexter and his family. Yeah, there is no evidence but there is no way Dexter would want any of that attention.
Fed guy and private detective guy breaking in to Deb's house based off of a hunch? There is NO WAY that would ever happen without a warrant. What judge would issue a warrant to search a well known detective of Miami metro on a hunch? :roll:
In years past there were always "Waaaaaait a minute" moments in the episodes. Now, it's every minute of every episode! It's like they are trying to just be done with it.
Deb getting another non-fatal shot and not being able to hit a guy who was under the influence of a sedative for the last hour+ who managed to slip away. :fp:
While I did like this episode better than last week's, it still amazes me at how lazy the writing has become.
Aint that the truth. And why do they keep giving screen time to Masuka's daughter?! I'm starting to hope she plays some pivotal role in the finale and I just missed all the clues......
The best seasons of Dexter were ones where he had a really good adversary like Trinity and the Ice Truck Killer. But in this season the stroyline splintered off in so many different directions that they didn't have time to build the Brain Surgeon into anything that intriguing.
While I did like this episode better than last week's, it still amazes me at how lazy the writing has become.
Aint that the truth. And why do they keep giving screen time to Masuka's daughter?! I'm starting to hope she plays some pivotal role in the finale and I just missed all the clues......
The best seasons of Dexter were ones where he had a really good adversary like Trinity and the Ice Truck Killer. But in this season the stroyline splintered off in so many different directions that they didn't have time to build the Brain Surgeon into anything that intriguing.
Yeah, I used to always feel somewhat uncomfortable watching Dexter. The writing was done so well that it made you sit on the edge of your seat at all times. Now, it's like I could easily fall asleep during an episode.
I watched the preview of the final episode and while it too looks better than the rest of the season, nothing about it (other than them saying it was) says "This is the series finale".
Yeah, I used to always feel somewhat uncomfortable watching Dexter. The writing was done so well that it made you sit on the edge of your seat at all times. Now, it's like I could easily fall asleep during an episode.
I watched the preview of the final episode and while it too looks better than the rest of the season, nothing about it (other than them saying it was) says "This is the series finale".
This sums it up nicely. Just watched last night's episode and when they showed the previews for the finale, I said to my wife "I'm not even excited for the series finale....that's how bad this show has become".
While I did like this episode better than last week's, it still amazes me at how lazy the writing has become.
Saxon told Dexter that if he doesn't back off he'd go after Dexter's family. Ok, Dexter lured him in but why wouldn't he think Saxon would go after him and not anyone else in his family? Harrison, Hannah, Deb...who was with him but still! :fp:
Ok, they find out the Feds are on to Hannah. Hannah going to the airport without any disguise. :fp: The airport!!!!! The most secure place one could possibly go, the one place that authorities would put on alert for a smoking hot blond serial killer. :fp: Why the fuck wouldn't they just drive to another state, lay low then fly out from there? Nope, gotta fly out of Miami with the Feds looking for her. :fp:
Saxon getting caught. Ok, well done Deb and Dex! Fed guy releasing some random guy who he doesn't know sitting next to a table of knives at the very location he followed a detective to. Call it in? Nope. Find Deb to ask "hey, who's the guy strapped down on the table right next to a pile of knives? Nope. Did anyone else notice that when Deb went in to the hospital it was dark, then 10 minutes later when Dexter and her walk out to say their goodbye's it's at LEAST 10AM by how bright it was. Did they really sit and chitchat about things for 8 hours? :fp:
Dark Passenger or not, there was no way Dexter of old would have let Saxon off. He knows EVERYTHING about Dexter and his family. Yeah, there is no evidence but there is no way Dexter would want any of that attention.
Fed guy and private detective guy breaking in to Deb's house based off of a hunch? There is NO WAY that would ever happen without a warrant. What judge would issue a warrant to search a well known detective of Miami metro on a hunch? :roll:
In years past there were always "Waaaaaait a minute" moments in the episodes. Now, it's every minute of every episode! It's like they are trying to just be done with it.
Deb getting another non-fatal shot and not being able to hit a guy who was under the influence of a sedative for the last hour+ who managed to slip away. :fp:
it's offensive how dumb the writers think we are.
you summed it up perfectly. another annoying thing is dexter is fleeing to a different continent. a LIFE CHANGING move. a DANGEROUS move with hannah coming along.........and they all are so calm about everything! hannah making gourmet meals at debs house instead of being freaked the fuck out that she could, at any minute, get caught... deb and hannah casually asking dexter if he's still going to go after saxon, as if it's this minor errand he has tor run before they leave......dexter casually leaving miami metro for the last time without any big send off and then casually, and easily, trying to sell his apartment within a MATTER OF DAYS. :wtf: the whole thing is just so fucking stupid and not even remotely plausible, even for this show. :x
and masuka's daughter....what was fucking the point? good god almighty.
The one point that really showed the writers flaw was when the Fed agent asked Deb about Harrison going to the clinic for stitches and the receptionist seeing Hannah and Deb just says, "Oh no, it was me!" Do they not have security cameras at the entrance to the clinic and inside at the desk? And then she drives Hannah to the airport. Like the Fed wouldn't have anyone staking out the house and watching Hannah get in her car. It's not the worst season I've ever seen, but this has been one of the best shows on TV. It's taken a huge nosedive since Season 4.
The one point that really showed the writers flaw was when the Fed agent asked Deb about Harrison going to the clinic for stitches and the receptionist seeing Hannah and Deb just says, "Oh no, it was me!" Do they not have security cameras at the entrance to the clinic and inside at the desk? And then she drives Hannah to the airport. Like the Fed wouldn't have anyone staking out the house and watching Hannah get in her car. It's not the worst season I've ever seen, but this has been one of the best shows on TV. It's taken a huge nosedive since Season 4.
I disagree, this is EASILY the worst season for me.
and masuka's daughter....what was fucking the point? good god almighty.
I know.....one of the worst storylines I have ever seen. From any TV show. Thank god there's only 1 more episode left to suffer through. I hope Dexter gets caught.
The one point that really showed the writers flaw was when the Fed agent asked Deb about Harrison going to the clinic for stitches and the receptionist seeing Hannah and Deb just says, "Oh no, it was me!" Do they not have security cameras at the entrance to the clinic and inside at the desk? And then she drives Hannah to the airport. Like the Fed wouldn't have anyone staking out the house and watching Hannah get in her car. It's not the worst season I've ever seen, but this has been one of the best shows on TV. It's taken a huge nosedive since Season 4.
I disagree, this is EASILY the worst season for me.
Same for me. I think knowing it's the last season makes it even worse though.
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and masuka's daughter....what was fucking the point? good god almighty.
I know.....one of the worst storylines I have ever seen. From any TV show. Thank god there's only 1 more episode left to suffer through. I hope Dexter gets caught.
only saving grace is they showed her topless a few weeks ago. :thumbup:
and masuka's daughter....what was fucking the point? good god almighty.
I know.....one of the worst storylines I have ever seen. From any TV show. Thank god there's only 1 more episode left to suffer through. I hope Dexter gets caught.
only saving grace is they showed her topless a few weeks ago. :thumbup:
:thumbup:
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Comments
The part where Dexter said when they leave they wont be looking for a family. Know what else would hide Hannah? Dyed hair, and a hair cut, maybe stop dressing like a super model. What a joke. But a kid and a husband no one would ever spot Hannah then.
Even the stuff with Deb is stupid. She was always smarter than this, and stood up for herself. The fact she is letting Hannah stay at her place is so out of character. She use to be my favorite character but i cant take any character seriously anymore except Batista and Quinn.
The only ending that I will have respect for Dexter is if he kills himself cause he realizes what a joke he has become. Maybe Deb can kick the chair out from under him.
What is this crap?
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2015 Central Park
2016 Lexington, Ottawa, Toronto 1 & 2, Boston 1 & 2, Chicago 1 & 2
2017 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction Ceremony
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Dexter airing on the same night as Breaking Bad's last season isn't doing it any favors either. While every episode of BB gets better, each episode of Dexter seems to get even worse. What's sad is that I thought season 1 was really up there with Breaking Bad and some of the other greats.
I ended up watching Sunday's episode. Why did the writers think it was more important to show Masuka's daughter high than showing Dexter telling Batista he was leaving? I didn't think that converstaion between Dexter and Batista seemed very realistic either...maybe that's why the writers wrote the Masuka scene...or they had to find a way to shoehorn that actress in the episode for some reason.
Hannah never changing anything about her (wig, hair color, glasses) all season has been annoying.
The scene with Harrison falling was laughably bad.
I read that the writers actually wanted to end the series after season 7, but Showtime even wanted to continue it until at least season 9...maybe the rumored Dexter spinoff is the compromise?
Horrible show! Absolutely Horrible.
What is the rumor of a spin off? Dexter goes around changing serial killers into not being serial killers?
https://www.facebook.com/aghostwritersapology/
Besides a few episodes last season, the writing has been so lazy for the past 2-3 seasons. It's a shame that a show that was once so good is going out with such a whimper.
And wouldn't you think that the last season would be Dexter on the verge of being found out instead of this battle with Vogel's son who no one gives a shit about???? It doesn't seem likely, but I hope Dexter somehow gets caught at this point.
Dexter is (or at least was) so good at details...covering things up, etc...yet, he doesn't have the sense to have Hannah change her appearance. Talk about out-of-character.
I'd be curious to hear what the actors think about this season.
PBM
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Finally get around to watching the most recent episode on DVR last night, man that was awful. This season has sucked. And I agree, wouldn't a story line involving everybody's suspicions that Dexter is a serial killer be much more interesting than all these horrible side stories that nobody cares about? Deb's private detective job - don't care, Masuka and his daughter - don't care, Quinn's on and off again relationship - don't care. I was slightly intrigued with the Vogel story line when I thought she was the killer herself or the puppet master behind it but I hated the way that played out.
The only character people care about is Dexter so wouldn't it have been better if Batista, Quinn, and Matthews all started having suspicions of Dexter and kept closing in on him? This show used to be pretty good but this season was a complete bust for me.
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and now with 2 episodes left, it would be pointless for him to get caught because there is not enough time for them to focus on the stuff they should be focusing on. it's amazing how bad this show has become.
Yep. So dumb. Like I said earlier in this thread, I go from watching Breaking Bad to this mess on Sunday nights. Such a downgrade.
This reminds me of the last season of Entourage. A show that was once so good that became so bad. This may be worse..
:fp:
I was hoping the final episodes would gear up for an awesome ending but instead it's getting more predictable, and more cheesy. :fp:
The second Harrison wanted to play on the treadmill I KNEW that was going to be a problem.
Like others said, Hannah not changing her appearance at all?!? Not even a hat or sunglasses?!? :fp: Why wouldn't Dexter, the master of detail, possibly suggest that especially if they expect to skip town....via a PLANE?!?!
Yeah, that smokin hot blonde won't stand out at all! :roll:
The whole Vogel story was terrible! I'm glad she's dead!
Also, so at this point the federal deputy knows Hannah, Dexter and Deb are all in cahoots. Soooo...is this how it's going to end? Hannah gets caught and Dex and Deb get charged with aiding and abetting a known fugitive?
I can see it now, the final scene is Dex and Deb standing in front of a judge who charges them and sentences them to probation and community service.
One more :fp: just cuz...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Mmm....Hannah!
That's why the creators didn't have her change her appearance.
It is funny, trying to avoid attention and she wore that pink dress an episode or two ago... :fp:
Dexter wakes up in high school sleeping during class. His dad is his teacher, since he taught him the code.... Deb is totally his high school crush, and Vogel is the lunch lady. That's all i got, but i think more time and thought was put into this ending than what we will get from the show's writers.
The most amazing thing about this season is how bad it all really is. It's like they didnt even bother with a good story they knew the fans would watch it no matter what so they just put it in cruise control.
That way when they drag shit out more and more like they have all season, we can get to the conclusion in one sitting.
A great show has truly been ruined!
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Saxon told Dexter that if he doesn't back off he'd go after Dexter's family. Ok, Dexter lured him in but why wouldn't he think Saxon would go after him and not anyone else in his family? Harrison, Hannah, Deb...who was with him but still! :fp:
Ok, they find out the Feds are on to Hannah. Hannah going to the airport without any disguise. :fp: The airport!!!!! The most secure place one could possibly go, the one place that authorities would put on alert for a smoking hot blond serial killer. :fp: Why the fuck wouldn't they just drive to another state, lay low then fly out from there? Nope, gotta fly out of Miami with the Feds looking for her. :fp:
Saxon getting caught. Ok, well done Deb and Dex! Fed guy releasing some random guy who he doesn't know sitting next to a table of knives at the very location he followed a detective to. Call it in? Nope. Find Deb to ask "hey, who's the guy strapped down on the table right next to a pile of knives? Nope. Did anyone else notice that when Deb went in to the hospital it was dark, then 10 minutes later when Dexter and her walk out to say their goodbye's it's at LEAST 10AM by how bright it was. Did they really sit and chitchat about things for 8 hours? :fp:
Dark Passenger or not, there was no way Dexter of old would have let Saxon off. He knows EVERYTHING about Dexter and his family. Yeah, there is no evidence but there is no way Dexter would want any of that attention.
Fed guy and private detective guy breaking in to Deb's house based off of a hunch? There is NO WAY that would ever happen without a warrant. What judge would issue a warrant to search a well known detective of Miami metro on a hunch? :roll:
In years past there were always "Waaaaaait a minute" moments in the episodes. Now, it's every minute of every episode! It's like they are trying to just be done with it.
Deb getting another non-fatal shot and not being able to hit a guy who was under the influence of a sedative for the last hour+ who managed to slip away. :fp:
Aint that the truth. And why do they keep giving screen time to Masuka's daughter?! I'm starting to hope she plays some pivotal role in the finale and I just missed all the clues......
The best seasons of Dexter were ones where he had a really good adversary like Trinity and the Ice Truck Killer. But in this season the stroyline splintered off in so many different directions that they didn't have time to build the Brain Surgeon into anything that intriguing.
Yeah, I used to always feel somewhat uncomfortable watching Dexter. The writing was done so well that it made you sit on the edge of your seat at all times. Now, it's like I could easily fall asleep during an episode.
I watched the preview of the final episode and while it too looks better than the rest of the season, nothing about it (other than them saying it was) says "This is the series finale".
This sums it up nicely. Just watched last night's episode and when they showed the previews for the finale, I said to my wife "I'm not even excited for the series finale....that's how bad this show has become".
it's offensive how dumb the writers think we are.
you summed it up perfectly. another annoying thing is dexter is fleeing to a different continent. a LIFE CHANGING move. a DANGEROUS move with hannah coming along.........and they all are so calm about everything! hannah making gourmet meals at debs house instead of being freaked the fuck out that she could, at any minute, get caught... deb and hannah casually asking dexter if he's still going to go after saxon, as if it's this minor errand he has tor run before they leave......dexter casually leaving miami metro for the last time without any big send off and then casually, and easily, trying to sell his apartment within a MATTER OF DAYS. :wtf: the whole thing is just so fucking stupid and not even remotely plausible, even for this show. :x
and masuka's daughter....what was fucking the point?
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
9/29/04 Boston, 6/28/08 Mansfield, 8/23/09 Chicago, 5/15/10 Hartford
5/17/10 Boston, 10/15/13 Worcester, 10/16/13 Worcester, 10/25/13 Hartford
8/5/16 Fenway, 8/7/16 Fenway
EV Solo: 6/16/11 Boston, 6/18/11 Hartford,
I disagree, this is EASILY the worst season for me.
I know.....one of the worst storylines I have ever seen. From any TV show. Thank god there's only 1 more episode left to suffer through. I hope Dexter gets caught.
Same for me. I think knowing it's the last season makes it even worse though.
only saving grace is they showed her topless a few weeks ago. :thumbup: