Contrarians may finally agree we are changing the climate

124

Comments

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,669
    Again, " It seems that no matter how much information you put out there, no matter how many references and links we post- and not just quick Google searches, but periodicals, a variety of frequently read web sites, books, documentaries and study groups- the response from deniers is the same: "Give me more information". "

    How much information is enough? A number of us here have provided more than enough information/education on the subject. To argue otherwise is just arguing for the sake of arguing. And so it goes, all too often on this forum.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    then why address the people who you seem to deem so inferior to you on the subject at all?

    not everyone is as passionate about it as you and Brian are. if you really want to change people's minds and educate them, then do that. telling people how uneducated they are on the subject does nothing to help your cause. if you don't want to discuss the subject, then don't. but don't attack others because of their supposed lack of knowledge on the issue.

    if engaging people on the issue makes you so mad, then it's simple. don't do it.

    this is sooo lame ... like really!? ... so, i'm passionate about something that affects the world, especially poor people in developing countries and i need to worry about someone who gets defensive over something they should have done years ago ... i'm posting on the MT forum here ... one that supposedly engages people about current events and issues ... if you want to engage on this subject - the least you could do is read up a little on it ...

    at the end of the day - i can't be worried about inadvertently hurting someone's feelings because they choose to post things that are patently false ...

    global warming has catastrophic consequences and you want me to sugar coat it for everyone!? ... no thanks
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    edited August 2013
    polaris_x wrote:
    this is sooo lame ... like really!? ... so, i'm passionate about something that affects the world, especially poor people in developing countries and i need to worry about someone who gets defensive over something they should have done years ago ... i'm posting on the MT forum here ... one that supposedly engages people about current events and issues ... if you want to engage on this subject - the least you could do is read up a little on it ...

    at the end of the day - i can't be worried about inadvertently hurting someone's feelings because they choose to post things that are patently false ...

    global warming has catastrophic consequences and you want me to sugar coat it for everyone!? ... no thanks

    it's quite unfortunate when anyone thinks they have the authority to tell others what they should have read up on in their life.

    polaris, this is a band's website, not a university class. I don't have any expectations on anyone's prior knowledge on any given subject and neither should you. I come here to learn and discuss, not to be told I needed to do homework so elitist people will "allow" me to engage in the conversation. I have never once denied anything you or Brian has said, only given examples of why some people still deny it.

    Remember, Brian started this thread, not a contrarian.
    Post edited by Hugh Freaking Dillon on
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    polaris_x wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    then why address the people who you seem to deem so inferior to you on the subject at all?

    not everyone is as passionate about it as you and Brian are. if you really want to change people's minds and educate them, then do that. telling people how uneducated they are on the subject does nothing to help your cause. if you don't want to discuss the subject, then don't. but don't attack others because of their supposed lack of knowledge on the issue.

    if engaging people on the issue makes you so mad, then it's simple. don't do it.

    this is sooo lame ... like really!? ... so, i'm passionate about something that affects the world, especially poor people in developing countries and i need to worry about someone who gets defensive over something they should have done years ago ... i'm posting on the MT forum here ... one that supposedly engages people about current events and issues ... if you want to engage on this subject - the least you could do is read up a little on it ...

    at the end of the day - i can't be worried about inadvertently hurting someone's feelings because they choose to post things that are patently false ...

    global warming has catastrophic consequences and you want me to sugar coat it for everyone!? ... no thanks

    and I haven't seen anyone get defensive or have hurt feelings. don't use that patronizing nonsense here. I think we're all a bit better than that.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    brianlux wrote:
    Again, " It seems that no matter how much information you put out there, no matter how many references and links we post- and not just quick Google searches, but periodicals, a variety of frequently read web sites, books, documentaries and study groups- the response from deniers is the same: "Give me more information". "

    How much information is enough? A number of us here have provided more than enough information/education on the subject. To argue otherwise is just arguing for the sake of arguing. And so it goes, all too often on this forum.

    who's denying, Brian? one could argue that the whole point of this thread was argumentative and provocative.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    it's quite unfortunate when anyone thinks they have the authority to tell others what they should have read up on in their life.

    polaris, this is a band's website, not a university class. I don't have any expectations on anyone's prior knowledge on any given subject and neither should you. I come here to learn and discuss, not to be told I needed to do homework so elitist people will "allow" me to engage in the conversation. I have never once denied anything you or Brian has said, only given examples of why some people still deny it.

    Remember, Brian started this thread, not a contrarian.

    i'm not sure what to say to you anymore ... put me on ignore ... the fact you think i think i have some kind of authority to tell people what they should do is troubling ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    who's denying, Brian? one could argue that the whole point of this thread was argumentative and provocative.

    the friggin' thread was talking about how many people have stopped being skeptics and it only became argumentative when somebody accused me of something which was false ... and then you decide to bring up some personal issue you have with me ...
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    polaris_x wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    who's denying, Brian? one could argue that the whole point of this thread was argumentative and provocative.

    the friggin' thread was talking about how many people have stopped being skeptics and it only became argumentative when somebody accused me of something which was false ... and then you decide to bring up some personal issue you have with me ...

    I have zero personal issue with you, polaris.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    edited August 2013
    polaris_x wrote:
    i'm not sure what to say to you anymore ... put me on ignore ... the fact you think i think i have some kind of authority to tell people what they should do is troubling ...

    two examples:
    polaris_x wrote:
    if you want to engage on this subject - the least you could do is read up a little on it ...
    polaris_x wrote:
    ..... something they should have done years ago ...
    Post edited by Hugh Freaking Dillon on
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Godfather.
    Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    polaris_x wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    then why address the people who you seem to deem so inferior to you on the subject at all?

    not everyone is as passionate about it as you and Brian are. if you really want to change people's minds and educate them, then do that. telling people how uneducated they are on the subject does nothing to help your cause. if you don't want to discuss the subject, then don't. but don't attack others because of their supposed lack of knowledge on the issue.

    if engaging people on the issue makes you so mad, then it's simple. don't do it.

    this is sooo lame ... like really!? ... so, i'm passionate about something that affects the world, especially poor people in developing countries and i need to worry about someone who gets defensive over something they should have done years ago ... i'm posting on the MT forum here ... one that supposedly engages people about current events and issues ... if you want to engage on this subject - the least you could do is read up a little on it ...

    at the end of the day - i can't be worried about inadvertently hurting someone's feelings because they choose to post things that are patently false ...

    global warming has catastrophic consequences and you want me to sugar coat it for everyone!? ... no thanks


    no offence man but nothing seems to be good enough for you on this topic,you constantly fire back with the negitive when debating global warming or pollution issues.

    Godfather.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    i'm not sure what to say to you anymore ... put me on ignore ... the fact you think i think i have some kind of authority to tell people what they should do is troubling ...

    two examples:
    polaris_x wrote:
    if you want to engage on this subject - the least you could do is read up a little on it ...
    polaris_x wrote:
    ..... something they should have done years ago ...

    why are those problematic to you? ... i don't see anything wrong with it at all ...

    we're debating a topic - is that an unreasonable expectation?? ... it's like me telling you winnipeg sucks but i've never been there or know nothing about it ... but hey i hear some people say it's cold and all ...

    and again ... i will reiterate ... i've been posting about this topic for at least a decade on these forums ... repeating the same stuff over and over again ... and often to the same people and during that entire time - they have never bothered to understand the issue ... do you not see how frustrating that is?
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    any idea on what steps would have to be taken in order to significantly decrease the effects of the greenhouse effect? I mean, politically speaking, it seems like no one is taking the lead, and not one major superpower seems to be even showing that they care one bit.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    I have zero personal issue with you, polaris.

    well ... your post was obviously directed at me and you had a bone to pick ...
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Godfather. wrote:
    no offence man but nothing seems to be good enough for you on this topic,you constantly fire back with the negitive when debating global warming or pollution issues.

    Godfather.

    dude ... i commended you on your energy savings man ... what do you want?
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    polaris_x wrote:
    it's like me telling you winnipeg sucks but i've never been there or know nothing about it ... but hey i hear some people say it's cold and all ...

    because I'm not telling you winnipeg sucks. I'm asking you what it's like there, but regardless of how much knowledge you have, you attack me for even asking and not having researched enough to ask the question, which, if I did, I wouldn't have the need to ask in the first place.

    see how frustrating that can be?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    polaris_x wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    I have zero personal issue with you, polaris.

    well ... your post was obviously directed at me and you had a bone to pick ...

    yes it was, but no, I have no bone.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    because I'm not telling you winnipeg sucks. I'm asking you what it's like there, but regardless of how much knowledge you have, you attack me for even asking and not having researched enough to ask the question, which, if I did, I wouldn't have the need to ask in the first place.

    see how frustrating that can be?

    first of all ... i could be wrong but i believe you are referring to previous threads on this topic in which i was engaging with someone else ... someone who've i've had the same conversation with ... you jumped in to defend him and i said the same things ...

    secondly ... you aren't asking me what's it like ... you are reiterating the negative viewpoints others have and playing devils advocate ...
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    brianlux wrote:


    And why do you limit the people concerned about climate change/global warming as "left/liberals and green movements". Do we have to have a label to care? Can't just ordinary caring and conscientious people car about the health of the world we live in?

    Americans have been forced via media brainwashing that climate change / global warming is a political issue. God forbid, you can be interested in taking care of the earth without labeling it politically!
  • backseatLover12
    backseatLover12 Posts: 2,312
    Someone mentioned solid info, I believe, pages ago, and there was another post about climate science being studied only 30 years or something. I don't know if that's true, but the research does come up with global temps and cycles from way back. It IS cyclical. However, the pollution caused by man has changed the cycle and it's presently spiking. This doesn't mean it has to be hot all the time. What comes from these wayward temps is extreme and unusual weather. No one can deny the weather's been wacky for the last 10+ years. No one can deny that the arctic is melting, causing sea level to increase. Animals are losing their habitats and going north seeking what they're accustomed to.

    Anyway, the earth will continue, it always has. But will human civilization? That's what we should be focusing on; saving ourselves by helping the earth.

    http://www.newscientist.com/data/images ... -2_808.jpg

    http://climate.dot.gov/about/overview/impacts.html

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013 ... ing-oceans

    090903-arctic-warming-ice-age_big.jpg

    Humans are essentially putting the brakes on the next ice age, according to a September 2009 study that represents the most extensive work to date on Arctic climate change.

    Arctic temperatures (seen in blue, above) have cooled over the past 2,000 years due to a natural tilt in Earth's axis. But human-caused global warming reversed that trend in the mid-1990s (seen in red).

    Analysis of records from lake sediments, ice cores, and tree rings found the same results as computer models, strengthening the researchers' conclusions.

    Image courtesy Science, modified by UCAR
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... 34166.html
  • Hugh Freaking Dillon
    Hugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
    polaris_x wrote:

    first of all ... i could be wrong but i believe you are referring to previous threads on this topic in which i was engaging with someone else ... someone who've i've had the same conversation with ... you jumped in to defend him and i said the same things ...

    secondly ... you aren't asking me what's it like ... you are reiterating the negative viewpoints others have and playing devils advocate ...

    I know we've talked about this before, but I don't recall that specific situation or who it was. Doesn't matter, to be honest.

    I wasn't reiterating negative viewpoints and playing devil's advocate. Brian asked a question regarding why some people still don't believe global warming is real and I answered it to the best of my ability, on behalf of those people. I am not one of them. I'm not arguing with anyone for the sake of arguing.

    I'm actually arguing with people that I'm not arguing with them. these climate threads all have a common theme. :?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014

Categories