Noam Chomsky: America is accelerating the apocalypse
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I take issue with him using the term "apocalypse", and while I didn't read the whole article, I'm wondering where China is in this equation? Because China is certainly a major factor with this topic. But other than that, I think that's all a given. I thought it was common knowledge. :lolno:
(and I'm not disagreeing strongly, but I think it's a mistake to just flatly group Canada with the US here.... still. If Harper and the Conservatives stick around much longer, that won't be the case)With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
pjhawks wrote:polaris_x wrote:the US is by far the biggest threat to world peace ...
ummm ok. :roll: .With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
uhhh ... any of you two would like to discuss the points i made as to why i believe so? ... north korea!? ... really ... :fp:0
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polaris_x wrote:uhhh ... any of you two would like to discuss the points i made as to why i believe so? ... north korea!? ... really ... :fp:
nah, you are already convinced the US is evil so not really worth the effort getting into it when there is no chance to change your mind. good luck though.0 -
polaris_x wrote:uhhh ... any of you two would like to discuss the points i made as to why i believe so? ... north korea!? ... really ... :fp:With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0
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PJ_Soul wrote:I consider any nation lead by a crazy person who is currently into developing nuclear weapons in the face of sanctions and testing long distance missiles and threatening to use them on other nations a pretty serious threat to world peace, but that's... just me? :?
has North Korea invaded any country in the last 2 decades? ... has North Korea supplied arms to terrorist groups in Syria? ... and you do know that North Korea is great at issuing threats and then entertaining the likes of Dennis Rodman? ...
http://nation.time.com/2013/06/06/north ... mushrooms/
if you are getting your global geo-politics via sound bites from cnn and fox ... you're really just playing into the propaganda ... is north korea disney world in disguise? ... of course not but there are no facts that could remotely put it on the top of the list of countries that threaten world peace ...0 -
polaris_x wrote:PJ_Soul wrote:I consider any nation lead by a crazy person who is currently into developing nuclear weapons in the face of sanctions and testing long distance missiles and threatening to use them on other nations a pretty serious threat to world peace, but that's... just me? :?
has North Korea invaded any country in the last 2 decades? ... has North Korea supplied arms to terrorist groups in Syria? ... and you do know that North Korea is great at issuing threats and then entertaining the likes of Dennis Rodman? ...
http://nation.time.com/2013/06/06/north ... mushrooms/
if you are getting your global geo-politics via sound bites from cnn and fox ... you're really just playing into the propaganda ... is north korea disney world in disguise? ... of course not but there are no facts that could remotely put it on the top of the list of countries that threaten world peace ...With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
PJ_Soul wrote:I don't listen to sound bites (I usually don't even watch TV news, and don't even get Fox news), and I'm not an idiot. You've got your views and I've got mine. You don't have to be so fucking condescending about it. North Korea is destabilizing that entire region politically, and I consider them a real threat, and think that you are underestimating what they may be willing to do. Just because the leader is also an eccentric weirdo doesn't mean you should laugh him off. But I'm not being a jackass about stating my opinions - you might want to try it. And in any case, I listed some other countries, like Pakistan, Syria, and Iran, but you are focusing on the one that you don't agree with.
sorry ... i apologize if my posts are condescending but all i'm reading is the same old talking points the US uses to drum up it's wars against all those countries ... i don't read any facts or reason ... just throwing out the same axis of evil stuff ... i mean syria? ... you have the US funding al qaeda rebels (apparently not terrorists anymore because they are doing the US's bidding) and Syria is a threat to global peace? ... the fact that the US spends probably 10 x the amount on weapons as all your countries combined should be indication enough that they are small potatoes ... do you think iran would be searching for nukes if the US hadn't allowed israel to go nuclear?
are these countries utopic - hell no but they don't come close to the US when it comes to being a threat to world peace ...0 -
polaris_x wrote:PJ_Soul wrote:I don't listen to sound bites (I usually don't even watch TV news, and don't even get Fox news), and I'm not an idiot. You've got your views and I've got mine. You don't have to be so fucking condescending about it. North Korea is destabilizing that entire region politically, and I consider them a real threat, and think that you are underestimating what they may be willing to do. Just because the leader is also an eccentric weirdo doesn't mean you should laugh him off. But I'm not being a jackass about stating my opinions - you might want to try it. And in any case, I listed some other countries, like Pakistan, Syria, and Iran, but you are focusing on the one that you don't agree with.
sorry ... i apologize if my posts are condescending but all i'm reading is the same old talking points the US uses to drum up it's wars against all those countries ... i don't read any facts or reason ... just throwing out the same axis of evil stuff ... i mean syria? ... you have the US funding al qaeda rebels (apparently not terrorists anymore because they are doing the US's bidding) and Syria is a threat to global peace? ... the fact that the US spends probably 10 x the amount on weapons as all your countries combined should be indication enough that they are small potatoes ... do you think iran would be searching for nukes if the US hadn't allowed israel to go nuclear?
are these countries utopic - hell no but they don't come close to the US when it comes to being a threat to world peace ...With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
PJ_Soul wrote:Okay, well, I disagree that the US is the greatest threat to world peace. If I had to pick one, I'd say that Iran is. We can say it all leads back to the US all we want, but that doesn't mean the US is the threat... If you really want to bring it back to who caused the problem that lead to the problem that lead to the problem, then Britain would be the best option when you're talking about Iran, not to mention Russia's involvement in supplying weapons in the Middle East, etc etc etc. We could do that all day without ever knowing if we're right or not (i.e. Iran very well may have gone nuclear for any number of other reasons if Israel hadn't). But in the end, it's IRAN who is the bigger threat to world peace, not the US.
based on what??
is Iran invading other countries? ... sure they are engaged in proxy wars but nothing on the scale of the US ... give me something to prove your point ... the US allowing Israel to go nuclear in the region is not some colonial piece of history ... it's relative recent and that's what we're talking about ... i'm not even going into the CIA overthrow of Iran that has led us to the hardline country that it is now ...
you do realize that with the only real threat Iran has made is to the zionist jews right? ... and those people are second on my list on threats to global peace ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-r04SQ97_Q0 -
polaris_x wrote:PJ_Soul wrote:Okay, well, I disagree that the US is the greatest threat to world peace. If I had to pick one, I'd say that Iran is. We can say it all leads back to the US all we want, but that doesn't mean the US is the threat... If you really want to bring it back to who caused the problem that lead to the problem that lead to the problem, then Britain would be the best option when you're talking about Iran, not to mention Russia's involvement in supplying weapons in the Middle East, etc etc etc. We could do that all day without ever knowing if we're right or not (i.e. Iran very well may have gone nuclear for any number of other reasons if Israel hadn't). But in the end, it's IRAN who is the bigger threat to world peace, not the US.
based on what??
is Iran invading other countries? ... sure they are engaged in proxy wars but nothing on the scale of the US ... give me something to prove your point ... the US allowing Israel to go nuclear in the region is not some colonial piece of history ... it's relative recent and that's what we're talking about ... i'm not even going into the CIA overthrow of Iran that has led us to the hardline country that it is now ...
you do realize that with the only real threat Iran has made is to the zionist jews right? ... and those people are second on my list on threats to global peace ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-r04SQ97_Q
(oh, and PS - I actually think that Islamic extremists are the biggest threat to world peace right now, but since we're talking nations, I didn't include them)With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
I am curious, if America is the greatest threat to world peace what do people think the world would look like if the US disappeared tomorrow? Would the world be more or less safe? What nation or nations would fill the vacuum left by the US? Would that nation or nations be better or worse? Would the Middle East find peace?
I don't believe the US is the greatest threat to world peace there is and I don't think there is any guarantee that whatever comes next will be much better. Probably a likelihood that it will be much worse, actually, but I am probably in the minority on that here. So I am curious to hear how people envision a post-American global world.___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."0 -
http://www.alternet.org/world/noam-chom ... eats-peace
Why America and Israel Are the Greatest Threats to Peace
Imagine if Iran -- or any other country -- did a fraction of what American and Israel do at will
Noam Chomsky
September 3, 2012
'...Like its patron, Israel resorts to violence at will. It persists in illegal settlement in occupied territory, some annexed, all in brazen defiance of international law and the U.N. Security Council. It has repeatedly carried out brutal attacks against Lebanon and the imprisoned people of Gaza, killing tens of thousands without credible pretext.
Thirty years ago Israel destroyed an Iraqi nuclear reactor, an act that has recently been praised, avoiding the strong evidence, even from U.S. intelligence, that the bombing did not end Saddam Hussein’s nuclear weapons program but rather initiated it. Bombing of Iran might have the same effect.
Iran too has carried out aggression – but during the past several hundred years, only under the U.S.-backed regime of the shah, when it conquered Arab islands in the Persian Gulf.
Iran engaged in nuclear development programs under the shah, with the strong support of official Washington. The Iranian government is brutal and repressive, as are Washington’s allies in the region. The most important ally, Saudi Arabia, is the most extreme Islamic fundamentalist regime, and spends enormous funds spreading its radical Wahhabist doctrines elsewhere. The gulf dictatorships, also favored U.S. allies, have harshly repressed any popular effort to join the Arab Spring.
The Nonaligned Movement – the governments of most of the world’s population – is now meeting in Teheran. The group has vigorously endorsed Iran’s right to enrich uranium, and some members – India, for example – adhere to the harsh U.S. sanctions program only partially and reluctantly.
The NAM delegates doubtless recognize the threat that dominates discussion in the West, lucidly articulated by Gen. Lee Butler, former head of the U.S. Strategic Command: “It is dangerous in the extreme that in the cauldron of animosities that we call the Middle East,” one nation should arm itself with nuclear weapons, which “inspires other nations to do so.”
Butler is not referring to Iran, but to Israel, which is regarded in the Arab countries and in Europe as posing the greatest threat to peace In the Arab world, the United States is ranked second as a threat, while Iran, though disliked, is far less feared. Indeed in many polls majorities hold that the region would be more secure if Iran had nuclear weapons to balance the threats they perceive...'
http://www.zcommunications.org/the-iran ... -chomsky-1
The Iranian Threat
Noam Chomsky
July 2010
'...The brutal clerical regime is doubtless a threat to its own people, though it does not rank particularly high in that respect in comparison to U.S. allies in the region. But that is not what concerns the military and intelligence assessments. Rather, they are concerned with the threat Iran poses to the region and the world.
The reports make it clear that the Iranian threat is not military. Iran's military spending is "relatively low compared to the rest of the region," and minuscule as compared to the U.S. Iranian military doctrine is strictly "defensive…designed to slow an invasion and force a diplomatic solution to hostilities." Iran has only "a limited capability to project force beyond its borders." With regard to the nuclear option, "Iran's nuclear program and its willingness to keep open the possibility of developing nuclear weapons is a central part of its deterrent strategy."
Though the Iranian threat is not military aggression, that does not mean that it might be tolerable to Washington. Iranian deterrent capacity is considered an illegitimate exercise of sovereignty that interferes with U.S. global designs. Specifically, it threatens U.S. control of Middle East energy resources, a high priority of planners since World War II. As one influential figure advised, expressing a common understanding, control of these resources yields "substantial control of the world" (A. A. Berle).
But Iran's threat goes beyond deterrence. It is also seeking to expand its influence. Iran's "current five-year plan seeks to expand bilateral, regional, and international relations, strengthen Iran's ties with friendly states, and enhance its defense and deterrent capabilities. Commensurate with that plan, Iran is seeking to increase its stature by countering U.S. influence and expanding ties with regional actors while advocating Islamic solidarity." In short, Iran is seeking to "destabilize" the region, in the technical sense of the term used by General Petraeus. U.S. invasion and military occupation of Iran's neighbors is "stabilization." Iran's efforts to extend its influence in neighboring countries is "destabilization," hence plainly illegitimate. It should be noted that such revealing usage is routine. Thus, the prominent foreign policy analyst James Chace, former editor of the main establishment journal Foreign Affairs, was properly using the term "stability" in its technical sense when he explained that in order to achieve "stability" in Chile it was necessary to "destabilize" the country (by overthrowing the elected Allende government and installing the Pinochet dictatorship)...'0 -
Well, I've kept kind of quiet on this thread (despite starting it) but I'll jump in. I understand why some of you believe North Korea and Iran are threats to world peace- and yes, I think they are- but the biggest? This is hard for me to fathom. The biggest? Compared to the super powers that hold the safety of the world in their hands? Maybe I'm missing something. I just don't see it. The article Byrnzie posted above pretty much spells it out but I would also think Russia and China must fit in there as well.
Looking at the bigger picture, it also seems to me that the stability of the world- at least in terms of human viability- rests on the environmental changes being propagated but the largest of the developed countries of the world. These are the ones eating up the most resources, causing the most pollution, having the greatest affect on climate change, as well as being large in their (our) responsibility for rapid species decline. The "apocalypse" is not just a nuclear war issue."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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