collateral damage - boston to afghanistan

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  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,613
    Idris wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    Pat Tillman saw his country get attacked by terrorists and wanted to fight for his country because of that. He didn't go to Afghanistan, live off the government and commit a terrorist act.

    These 2 guys came to America to live a life that they otherwise couldn't in Russia. Then, for whatever reason, decided to kill innocent people.

    So to compare pat tillman to these two murderers in any fashion is ignorant.

    So they both had reasons? Exactly.

    Me, I don't think any of what they did was just. I'm not defending the brothers and not defending Tillman.

    Why Pat left the US to go fight a war he probably knew nothing about, quite possibly based his decision on emotion after 9/11. Like many others.

    That can be viewed as ignorance, And then let's look at it now over 10 years later, what has the US done for Afghanistan? Other then liberate many afghans from their limbs and create more 'terrorists'.
    -
    A 'just' cause to get back the people who destroyed the towers? Nah,

    The same death and destrcuction.

    They both had reasons so they're the same? That is the criteria now? The weakest argument I have heard yet.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Idris wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    So enlisting because he saw his country attacked isn't just, but ignorant?
    Were all the soldiers that enlisted after pearl harbor ignorant as well?

    When we don't know the full reasons for said attack, then yes. It can be, after 9/11, how many people turned their brains off, and just fell in line, how any people were asking "why"?

    and like Pearl Harbor, the US needed it, and used it for it's own greedy purpose.

    You don't think that we had pearl harbor coming? We instigated that attack, very much like how we instigated 9/11.

    No, its not ignorant for a citizen to enlist when he/she sees their country attacked. Ever. What soldier ever knows what the reason is for war? I won't argue FDR wanted in WWII, but by no means does that mean the guys that enlisted to fight were ignorant.
    As far as 9/11 goes, its the same concept. I'm not going to say we instigated hijacked airplanes flying into building. I don't believe that. I hated GW as much as the next guy, but i dont think he was dropping flyers in the middle east saying attack America, we need another war.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,394
    Was I on vacation when the US attacked Russia?

    the last couple of pages are confusing me.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    No, its not ignorant for a citizen to enlist when he/she sees their country attacked. Ever. What soldier ever knows what the reason is for war? I won't argue FDR wanted in WWII, but by no means does that mean the guys that enlisted to fight were ignorant.
    As far as 9/11 goes, its the same concept. I'm not going to say we instigated hijacked airplanes flying into building. I don't believe that. I hated GW as much as the next guy, but i dont think he was dropping flyers in the middle east saying attack America, we need another war.

    Yes, exactly! As you say,
    What soldier ever knows what the reason is for war?

    If you do something, and you don't truly know the reason, you are ignorant, an idiot or whatever else in line with that.

    If all these soliders, past and present, were truly aware of the reality of the wars they are/have fought, reasons 'why', they would be a fool to fight, and if a person, solider or anyone else just follows orders cause he has emotion for the country he was born in. Yes they are ignorant.

    Agian, you agree with me about FDR, so how can you say that those soldiers were not ignorant? Yes they may of been good people. But they were still fools.

    They based what they did on emotion, not the reality of the situation, same with the ones (some) who joined up after 9/11.
  • Last-12-Exit
    Last-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Idris wrote:
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    No, its not ignorant for a citizen to enlist when he/she sees their country attacked. Ever. What soldier ever knows what the reason is for war? I won't argue FDR wanted in WWII, but by no means does that mean the guys that enlisted to fight were ignorant.
    As far as 9/11 goes, its the same concept. I'm not going to say we instigated hijacked airplanes flying into building. I don't believe that. I hated GW as much as the next guy, but i dont think he was dropping flyers in the middle east saying attack America, we need another war.

    Yes, exactly! As you say,
    What soldier ever knows what the reason is for war?

    If you do something, and you don't truly know the reason, you are ignorant, an idiot or whatever else in line with that.

    If all these soliders, past and present, were truly aware of the reality of the wars they are/have fought, reasons 'why', they would be a fool to fight, and if a person, solider or anyone else just follows orders cause he has emotion for the country he was born in. Yes they are ignorant.

    Agian, you agree with me about FDR, so how can you say that those soldiers were not ignorant? Yes they may of been good people. But they were still fools.

    They based what they did on emotion, not the reality of the situation, same with the ones who joined up after 9/11.

    Yes, I agree with you about FDR, but he didnt enlist. There are 2 reasons people enlist- one is for a career during peacetime and the other is to fight. Its not ignorant for a person to enlist to fight. Ever. Doesnt matter what his thought process is. Maybe he just want to kill arabs (or japanese in WWII).
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Last-12-Exit wrote:
    There are 2 reasons people enlist- one is for a career during peacetime and the other is to fight. Its not ignorant for a person to enlist to fight. Ever. Doesnt matter what his thought process is. Maybe he just want to kill arabs (or japanese in WWII).

    ummm, If you say so.
  • Bronx Bombers
    Bronx Bombers Posts: 2,208
    Jason P wrote:
    Was I on vacation when the US attacked Russia?

    Maybe it was payback for snatching Red October.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,394
    Bronx Bombers wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    Was I on vacation when the US attacked Russia?

    Maybe it was payback for snatching Red October.
    But is was sunk by the Soviets and now rests at the bottom of the Laurentian Abyss.

    ;)
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,394
    Here is a mind bending question of logic and rational.

    The bombers say an attack on one muslim is an attack on all muslims.

    So ...... what do we make of the daily bombings of muslims on muslims in the middle east? Are we witnessing one big chain reaction?

    :think:
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • even flow - question mark
    even flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    Idris wrote:
    Like Pat Tillman. He had a pretty good life, money on the horizon, then gave it up because he thought he was going to afghanistan to protect freedom and kill bad people.

    What happened to Pat? Oh yes,

    But I can't help but wonder, if we could talk to the dead Pat Tillman now, would he still of made the choice to go kill people, if he knew he was going to be killed by his own people.

    Or how his murder would be used as a propaganda tool by the same country he loved so much.
    -

    But somehow Jimmy V you think it's not delusional to do what Pat Tillman did.

    But it seems that he was as deluded as these Boston kids.


    This may be one of the most thought out posts of the day.

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • even flow - question mark
    even flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    Jason P wrote:
    Here is a mind bending question of logic and rational.

    The bombers say an attack on one muslim is an attack on all muslims.

    So ...... what do we make of the daily bombings of muslims on muslims in the middle east? Are we witnessing one big chain reaction?

    :think:


    This is what happens when you buy into the story. To use some examples from the past few pages: Pearl Harbour, 911, the wrong teachings of the Koran.

    I must say that after the mess of WWII you can look at the middle east and think wow they learned a lot from Yugoslavia. Look it up.

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,394
    even flow - question mark wrote:
    I must say that after the mess of WWII you can look at the middle east and think wow they learned a lot from Yugoslavia. Look it up.
    My uncle left Yugoslavia after the second world war. He was in a Nazi prison camp as a young lad. His dad was forced to fight on the Russian front.

    Man, I'm glad I grew up in the midwest.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    JC29856 said:
    JimmyV wrote:
    "A fierce battle between U.S.-backed Afghan forces and Taliban militants in a remote corner of eastern Afghanistan left nearly 20 people dead, including 11 Afghan children killed in an airstrike and an American civilian adviser, officials said Sunday."

    There was no "fierce battle" in Boston yesterday. There was no crossfire. There were bombs secretly planted and then detonated. The targets were runners, spectators and families. I feel for those 11 children but what happened yesterday was not the same thing.

    "our" "war on terror" isn't against a nation or state, its against persons, there is no set battlefield, the battlefield is where ever our leader says/wants a battlefield.
    "terrorist" "terrorism" is broadly and vaguely defined.
    "their" war isnt against a nation or state its against people, they have no set battlefield, the battlefield is where they say/want the battlefield to be.

    our leader says/wants the battlefield to be on the streets in afghanistan (where children play), they say/want the battlefield to be on the streets in Boston, Copley Sq (where there are spectators).
    here I am calling for the immediate hanging of the non white terrorist

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