"What we're supposed to do"

Jeanwah · April 2013

“You go to school, and try really hard so that you can get into a good college, and then you try really hard at college to get a good job, and then you try really hard at your job so you can make money. And then your kids do the same thing. And everyone just keeps on doing this and no one even stops to think WHY they’re doing it anymore. Everyone just does it because it’s what you're supposed to do.” – Dylan, 12 year old  

“And now here I am in a world guided by fear, a world suppressing the uniqueness that lies inside each of us, a world where we can either acquiesce to the inhuman nonsense of corporatism and materialism or insist on change. We are not enlivened by an educational system that clandestinely sets us up for jobs that could be automated, for work that need not be done, for enslavement without fervency for meaningful achievement. We have no choices in life when money is our motivational force. Our motivational force ought to be passion, but this is lost from the moment we step into a system that trains us, rather than inspires us.   

We are more than robotic bookshelves, conditioned to blurt out facts we were taught in school. We are all very special, every human on this planet is so special, so aren’t we all deserving of something better, of using our minds for innovation rather than memorization, for creativity rather than futile activity, for rumination rather than stagnation? We are not here to get a degree, to then get a job, so we can consume industry-approved placation after placation. There is more, and more still.” – Erica Goldson  

Time to break the pattern.

ed243421 · April 2013

Best valedictorian speech ever

brianlux · April 2013

Great thread, Jeanwah. Yes, time to break the pattern.

Suicidal Tendencies
Institutionalized lyrics

Sometimes I try to do things
And it just doesn't work out the way I want it to.
It's like, I try hard to do it
And I get real frustrated.
And I take my time
But it just doesn't work out the way I want it to.
It's like I concentrate on it real hard,
But it just doesn't work out.
And everything I do and everything I try,
It never turns out!
It's like, I need time to figure these things out.
There's always someone there going,
"Hey Mike, you know,
We've been noticing you've been having a lot of problems lately, you
Know.
You should maybe get away,
You'd feel a lot better."
And like, maybe you should talk about it,
Just leave me alone, I'll figure it out you know.
I go, "No, it's okay you know, I'll figure it out.
And they go, "Well, you know, if you wanna talk about it,
I'm just working on myself."
I'll be here ya know,
And you'll probably feel a lot better if ya talked about it,
So why don'tcha talk about it?!"
I go, "No! I don't want to I'm okay! I'll figure it out myself!"
But they just keep buggin' me,
They just keep buggin' me
And it builds up inside!

So you're gonna be institutionalized
You won't have any say
You'll come out brainwashed with bloodshot eyes
They'll brainwash you until you see their way

I'm not crazy - Institution
You're the one who's crazy - Institution
You're driving me crazy - Institution

They stuck me in an institution
Said it was the only solution
To protect me from the enemy, myself
To give me the needed professional help
Uh - I was in my room

But then again I was thinking about nothing.
And I was just like staring at the wall thinking 'bout everything
And then my Mom came in,
And I didn't even know she was there.
She called my name
But I didn't hear her.
Then she started screaming, "Mike, Mike!"
And I go, "What? What's the matter?"
She goes, "What's the matter with you?!"
I go, "There's nothin' wrong Mom."
She goes, "Don't tell me that, you're on drugs!"
I go, "No Mom, I'm not on drugs.
Why don't ya give me a Pepsi?"
I'm okay, I'm just thinking, you know.
I go, "Mom, I'm okay, I'm just thinking."
She goes, "No, you're on drugs!"
Normal people don't act in that way!"
She goes, "No, you're not thinking, you're on drugs!
All I want is a Pepsi."
I go, "Mom, just give me a Pepsi please,
Just one Pepsi!
And she wouldn't give it to me!
And she wouldn't give it to me!
All I wanted was a Pepsi!
Just a Pepsi!

They give you a white shirt with long sleeves
Tied around your back, you're treated like thieves
Drug you up because they're lazy
It's too much work to help a crazy

I'm not crazy - Institution
You're the one who's crazy - Institution
You're driving me crazy - Institution

They stuck me in an institution
To give me the needed professional help
Said it was the only solution
To protect me from the enemy, myself

I was sitting in my room.
My Mom and my Dad came in.
So they pull up a chair and they sat down.
They go, "Mike, we need to talk to you."
And I go, "Okay, what's the matter?"
They go, "Me and your Mom,
We've been noticing lately you've been having a lot of problems,
And you've been going off for no reason.
And we're afraid you're gonna hurt somebody,
We're afraid you're gonna hurt yourself.
So we decided that it would be in your best interest
If we put you somewhere
Where you could get the help that you need."
And I go, "Wait! What are ya talking about?!
We decided?!
My best interest?!
How can you say what my best interest is!
And what are ya trying ta say, I'm crazy?!
How do you know what my best interest is!
When I went to your schools!
I went to your churches!
I went to your institutional learning facilities!
So how can ya say I'm crazy?!

They say they're gonna fix my brain
But by the time they fix my head
Alleviate my suffering and my pain
Mentally, I'll be dead

Chorus (two verses):
I'm not crazy - Institution
You're the one who's crazy - Institution
You're driving me crazy - Institution

They stuck me in an institution
Said it was the only solution
To give me the needed professional help
To protect me from the enemy, myself

...Doesn't matter I'll probably get hit by a car anyway

Jeanwah · April 2013

Break the pattern, resist following the status quo, find yourself and what makes you happy.

hedonist · April 2013

I read this earlier and have been chewing on it since.

For me, it's always come down to "work to live, not live to work".

I didn't go the traditional college route, but the path I did choose has served me well in many ways.

I'm fortunate to like what I do and have it challenge me, but I put in my daily 8 or so, and leave it mostly behind when I get home. The salary I (we) earn allows for needs being met, some luxuries indulged, and donations made. Could we do with less? Of course - we have when we had to.

The white-collars don't necessarily live empty lives; some do, just as in all walks of professions. Some also enhance their non-work lives with sculpture, music, painting, exercise, tutoring, etc.

I guess it's more about your perspective.

Bah. I dunno!

End of a long day so my thoughts might be a bit muddled.

Agreed though, good thread

hedonist · April 2013

Jeanwah wrote:

Break the pattern, resist following the status quo, find yourself and what makes you happy.

And! I wanted to say that bolded part was my father's credo that he encouraged my sister and me to follow.

That, and always respect and be honest with yourself

brianlux · April 2013

Most of us are lucky to live in a society where, at least to some extent, we get to make choices about what we do. This is not so for most kids living in, say Zimbabwe. Despite the Horatio Alger stories, most of us in developed countries can't necessarily chose to become millionaires but we can make the choice between doing something we're not very fond of that makes us more money but doesn't give us much joy or satisfaction or doing something we like that makes us less money but brings us more happiness and satisfaction. But given the choice between being dirt poor and out of work, living high on the hog doing work I don't like and living modestly doing something I like very much, (and I've been in all three places) I eventually chose the latter- living on a modest income doing something I like. I always encourage kids to find what makes them happy because in the long run (short of being dirt poor, which sucks) that's what keeps you going.

catefrances · April 2013

the rules of our society were made up by men. I say fuck that ill do what I want, not what you want me to do. or as has been so eloquently stated by someone smarter than me... fuck you i wont do what you tell me.

BinauralJam · April 2013

catefrances wrote:

the rules of our society were made up by men. I say fuck that ill do what I want, not what you want me to do. or as has been so eloquently stated by someone smarter than me... fuck you i wont do what you tell me.

Pass the buck much?, Women havn't played their part? bullshit.

catefrances · April 2013

BinauralJam wrote:

catefrances wrote:

the rules of our society were made up by men. I say fuck that ill do what I want, not what you want me to do. or as has been so eloquently stated by someone smarter than me... fuck you i wont do what you tell me.

Pass the buck much?, Women havn't played their part? bullshit.

not passing the buck... just looking back through history and calling it as I see it. we live in a patriarchal society and we always have.

BinauralJam · April 2013

catefrances wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

catefrances wrote:

the rules of our society were made up by men. I say fuck that ill do what I want, not what you want me to do. or as has been so eloquently stated by someone smarter than me... fuck you i wont do what you tell me.

Pass the buck much?, Women havn't played their part? bullshit.

not passing the buck... just looking back through history and calling it as I see it. we live in a patriarchal society and we always have.

with women whispering in theirs ears morning noon and night .

catefrances · April 2013

BinauralJam wrote:

catefrances wrote:

not passing the buck... just looking back through history and calling it as I see it. we live in a patriarchal society and we always have.

with women whispering in theirs ears morning noon and night .

aah the adam defence. poor poor impotent men unable to make their own decisions. :roll:

BinauralJam · April 2013

catefrances wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

catefrances wrote:

not passing the buck... just looking back through history and calling it as I see it. we live in a patriarchal society and we always have.

with women whispering in theirs ears morning noon and night .

aah the adam defence. poor poor impotent men unable to make their own decisions. :roll:

i believe the word is manipulation.

BinauralJam · April 2013

Not unheard of

Jeanwah · April 2013

Great. Because people can't live without being negative, we must clog one of the few positive and out of the box threads with the toxicity. How about staying on topic, or starting (another) negative thread, guys?

catefrances · April 2013

Jeanwah wrote:

Great. Because people can't live without being negative, we must clog one of the few positive and out of the box threads with the toxicity. How about staying on topic, or starting (another) negative thread, guys?

my initial post was in sync with the topic at hand. I wasn't about being negative I was about stating the obvious and saying ill live how I want, not how they want me to.

Jeanwah · April 2013

catefrances wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Great. Because people can't live without being negative, we must clog one of the few positive and out of the box threads with the toxicity. How about staying on topic, or starting (another) negative thread, guys?

my original post was in sync with the topic at hand. I wasn't about being negative I was about stating the obvious and saying ill live how I want, not how they want me to.

I know, it just got carried off in another direction; different topic altogether.

mookeywrench · April 2013

Hate to break it to this valedictorian, but just because you have a nice job doesn't mean your life is empty and souless nor does it mean you're obsessed with money. And the majority of those inhumane, nonsensical, corporations became successful by bucking the trends and celebrating innovation, uniqueness and people following their passions.

My speech; Life is what you make it. Concern yourself with living out your own experiences rather than bad mouthing the way you only think others are living theirs.

catefrances · April 2013

Jeanwah wrote:

catefrances wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Great. Because people can't live without being negative, we must clog one of the few positive and out of the box threads with the toxicity. How about staying on topic, or starting (another) negative thread, guys?

my original post was in sync with the topic at hand. I wasn't about being negative I was about stating the obvious and saying ill live how I want, not how they want me to.

I know, it just got carried off in another direction; different topic altogether.

I do think that how our society was formed, and who formed its rules does have something to do with what "were supposed to do".

brianlux · April 2013

"Our motivational force ought to be passion".

That statement from Jeanwah's first post says it clearly and simply. This may not be true for everyone- I don't know- but I get the idea of living for one's passion (or passions) and doing so not wanting to go back but finding yourself going back anyway and feeling lost and then finding the passion again and then staying with it, staying with it, staying with it. Yeah. Life without the passion is a world without song.

catefrances · April 2013

brianlux wrote:

"Our motivational force ought to be passion".

That statement from Jeanwah's first post says it clearly and simply. This may not be true for everyone- I don't know- but I get the idea of living for one's passion (or passions) and doing so not wanting to go back but finding yourself going back anyway and feeling lost and then finding the passion again and then staying with it, staying with it, staying with it. Yeah. Life without the passion is a world without song.

agree. I find it incredibly difficult to do anything I have no passion for. but there are things I do have a passion for that I need to find more time for. I also need to find some focus cause im terribly undisciplined.

hedonist · April 2013

mookeywrench wrote:

Hate to break it to this valedictorian, but just because you have a nice job doesn't mean your life is empty and souless nor does it mean you're obsessed with money. And the majority of those inhumane, nonsensical, corporations became successful by bucking the trends and celebrating innovation, uniqueness and people following their passions.

My speech; Life is what you make it. Concern yourself with living out your own experiences rather than bad mouthing the way you only think others are living theirs.

Yes and yes.

brianlux · April 2013

catefrances wrote:

brianlux wrote:

"Our motivational force ought to be passion".

That statement from Jeanwah's first post says it clearly and simply. This may not be true for everyone- I don't know- but I get the idea of living for one's passion (or passions) and doing so not wanting to go back but finding yourself going back anyway and feeling lost and then finding the passion again and then staying with it, staying with it, staying with it. Yeah. Life without the passion is a world without song.

agree. I find it incredibly difficult to do anything I have no passion for. but there are things I do have a passion for that I need to find more time for. I also need to find some focus cause im terribly undisciplined.

I get that- doing things I have no passion for is sheer drudgery and so I rush through it sometimes. But that gets into that balance area which is tough. When I can do the mundane tasks in life and believe it has purpose in the bigger picture, I'm happier.

I think the same is true for discipline. I was unfocused for a long time but being much more focused sometimes verges on tunnel vision. A friend told me that "everything in moderation including moderation" thing and that made sense!

catefrances · April 2013

brianlux wrote:

I get that- doing things I have no passion for is sheer drudgery and so I rush through it sometimes. But that gets into that balance area which is tough. When I can do the mundane tasks in life and believe it has purpose in the bigger picture, I'm happier.

I think the same is true for discipline. I was unfocused for a long time but being much more focused sometimes verges on tunnel vision. A friend told me that "everything in moderation including moderation" thing and that made sense!

my dad calls me a dreamer.. which is where the lack of discipline comes from. I also see no great rush to do anything therefore I drag the chain on just about everything... again part of the dreamer psyche. were all gonna die one day I see no need to rush towards it.. if it wants me it can come get me. things will get done... but they get done in my time.

brianlux · April 2013

catefrances wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I get that- doing things I have no passion for is sheer drudgery and so I rush through it sometimes. But that gets into that balance area which is tough. When I can do the mundane tasks in life and believe it has purpose in the bigger picture, I'm happier.

I think the same is true for discipline. I was unfocused for a long time but being much more focused sometimes verges on tunnel vision. A friend told me that "everything in moderation including moderation" thing and that made sense!

my dad calls me a dreamer.. which is where the lack of discipline comes from. I also see no great rush to do anything therefore I drag the chain on just about everything... again part of the dreamer psyche. were all gonna die one day I see no need to rush towards it.. if it wants me it can come get me. things will get done... but they get done in my time.

Do you think being a dreamer is related to being an idealist? It seems that way for me anyway.

catefrances · April 2013

brianlux wrote:

catefrances wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I get that- doing things I have no passion for is sheer drudgery and so I rush through it sometimes. But that gets into that balance area which is tough. When I can do the mundane tasks in life and believe it has purpose in the bigger picture, I'm happier.

I think the same is true for discipline. I was unfocused for a long time but being much more focused sometimes verges on tunnel vision. A friend told me that "everything in moderation including moderation" thing and that made sense!

my dad calls me a dreamer.. which is where the lack of discipline comes from. I also see no great rush to do anything therefore I drag the chain on just about everything... again part of the dreamer psyche. were all gonna die one day I see no need to rush towards it.. if it wants me it can come get me. things will get done... but they get done in my time.

Do you think being a dreamer is related to being an idealist? It seems that way for me anyway.

yes. and for me it also comes from the feeling that I don't belong and that I don't want to be here. ive never felt I belonged... but whether that dislocation or the dreaming comes first, I don't know.

redrock · April 2013

brianlux wrote:

"Our motivational force ought to be passion".

That statement from Jeanwah's first post says it clearly and simply. This may not be true for everyone- I don't know- but I get the idea of living for one's passion (or passions) and doing so not wanting to go back but finding yourself going back anyway and feeling lost and then finding the passion again and then staying with it, staying with it, staying with it. Yeah. Life without the passion is a world without song.

It inspires me that my daughter has a real, true passion and is aiming to make a living out of this passion, make it her life (though still has to get a degree to enable this!).

But I will admit that I am guilty of telling my daughter she needs a good education and/or good skills to get on with life and what she wants to do and supporting - even pushing - her to do so. So, I guess, in a way, making her part of this 'what we're supposed to do'.

I never had a 'real' passion. Well enough of a passion for any one thing to focus on it and make me want it to be my 'life'. I guess my passion was my freedom and my 'whim'. I did study and got a degree in a subject I really enjoyed but I never used it for any of the jobs I had. I sort of 'slipped into' jobs as my life took me whereever! Rode the wave really but always rode it with belief in what I was doing. Sure, there is some dross in life, but hey... that's just the way it goes.

Jobwise/activity wise? Yes, we need the creative people but we also need those that are less creative and quite happy to do the 'futile' activities - some are happy with these. All part of the building blocks of society.
Though it is true, sometimes we maybe need get off the merry-go-round for a bit (though not always easy).

riotgrl · April 2013

I'll approach this from a slightly different perspective as one who watches the creativity ripped out of our kids. I try to inject as much creativity into my teaching as possible but with dictates from on high it is nearly impossible to do more than force the kids to shove enough information into their brains to pass a stupid test. I watch kids, day after day, that have no desire to be in the classroom learning history or geography but they have to because they want and expect to have the same middle class existence to which they have become accustomed. If some are lucky, they fit nicely into this mold we have created over the years and they will continue to go on to become successful adults while some of their fellow students will struggle for the rest of their lives to fit into the mold. From comments on here, I feel that many of you had great support systems to follow your dreams or to at least make the best of what you have or want to go get. But I see kids whose parents, whose teachers, whose society want them to fit the mold and they DON"T. They are penalized for it in so many ways. Personally, I would like to see some real change in education (of course, there are other bigger, better changes that can be made but this is the life I lead every day so I know it best) that emphasizes creativity and individuality and not whether they can pass some stupid fucking test so some stupid fucking politician can say how bad/great a teacher is or how bad/great a state is based on ONE score. Our education system is based on a model created over 100 years ago to fit the industrialized work model and we have not substantively changed it since that time. We make small modifications here and there and then moan and bitch when we don't see the results we want. Too bad we humans are so afraid of change or we could institute sweeping and total overhauls of the education system then maybe we could see some of the very changes that we so desperately need and want on the societal level.

This is how I took that speech. After spending so many years in an institutional setting, like our children do from the time they are 4 years old, is it any wonder they become jaded and disillusioned?

redrock · April 2013

riotgrl wrote:

I watch kids, day after day, that have no desire to be in the classroom learning history or geography but they have to because they want and expect to have the same middle class existence to which they have become accustomed.

I understand fully your post riotgrl and I do believe education is way to results based, disregarding what it takes for the kids to get those results. And yes, teachers can be more or less creative with their teaching and the passion (here is that word again) of the subject they impart to their students/pupils (albeit confined within certain parameters). For me, I will always remember my Orson Well's-like History of Art Teacher who had an incredible enthusiasm and insight for his subject.

But I would like to make a point about the bit I extracted from your post - whilst some kids may have no desire to be in the classroom for various reason (and style of teaching can be one of them), I do believe that 'having' to learn about history and geography (and other subjects) has a lot more impact than wanting a future existence to which they have been accustomed to. It gives children insight to the world - and that is so important for their perception and understanding of why things are such and how to eventually make a change. As a teacher, one needs to be able to share this insight/love of subject with the kids, making them wanting to learn. Yes, institutional settings in a way but so much more can come out of this than just fitting in a mould. As you said - sweeping changes are needed but this is not just about the big guys making the decisions about the education system, it's about the vision of society and what they want for their kids and their future. Much tougher to change.

aerial · April 2013

mookeywrench wrote:

Hate to break it to this valedictorian, but just because you have a nice job doesn't mean your life is empty and souless nor does it mean you're obsessed with money. And the majority of those inhumane, nonsensical, corporations became successful by bucking the trends and celebrating innovation, uniqueness and people following their passions.

My speech; Life is what you make it. Concern yourself with living out your own experiences rather than bad mouthing the way you only think others are living theirs.

yes yes and yes!!!

riotgrl · April 2013

redrock wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

I watch kids, day after day, that have no desire to be in the classroom learning history or geography but they have to because they want and expect to have the same middle class existence to which they have become accustomed.

I understand fully your post riotgrl and I do believe education is way to results based, disregarding what it takes for the kids to get those results. And yes, teachers can be more or less creative with their teaching and the passion (here is that word again) of the subject they impart to their students/pupils (albeit confined within certain parameters). For me, I will always remember my Orson Well's-like History of Art Teacher who had an incredible enthusiasm and insight for his subject.

But I would like to make a point about the bit I extracted from your post - whilst some kids may have no desire to be in the classroom for various reason (and style of teaching can be one of them), I do believe that 'having' to learn about history and geography (and other subjects) has a lot more impact than wanting a future existence to which they have been accustomed to. It gives children insight to the world - and that is so important for their perception and understanding of why things are such and how to eventually make a change. As a teacher, one needs to be able to share this insight/love of subject with the kids, making them wanting to learn. Yes, institutional settings in a way but so much more can come out of this than just fitting in a mould. As you said - sweeping changes are needed but this is not just about the big guys making the decisions about the education system, it's about the vision of society and what they want for their kids and their future. Much tougher to change.

I absolutely agree with your above statement. I LOVE teaching history and this new human geography course I have because I find them both to be such integral parts of understanding our world. I find many of the discussions on this very forum interesting because so many here seem to be so well-educated about the very topics I hold near and dear (and some seem to have no understanding at all!).

I'm simply at the end of a very tough year and you can call me B.O.B. (bitter old bitch

) until June 6 when school is out. Luckily, I found myself thinking about next school year and some changes that I want to make in my HumGeo class so I figure that the passion that I thought was gone is still there.

&quot;What we're supposed to do&quot;

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"What we're supposed to do"