The Official Philadelphia Flyers Thread

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  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    pjhawks wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:

    seriously. some people continue to bring it up for unbeknownst reasons :roll:

    FACTS show that the franchise was better off when carter and richards were here. this season and last year weren't as good as the prior seasons with those guys. i hated richards personally as much as you hate carter probably, but the facts are the facts.

    for a franchise that hasn't won a Cup in 37 years they blew up a team that 2 years prior was inthe stanley cup finals and the following year was 2nd in the Conference in the regular season. haven't approached either of those since.

    if/when this team doesn't make the playoffs will you acknowledge that blowing up the franchise 2 summers ago MIGHT not have been the right move?

    You are looking at things incorrectly. The carter/richards trades were not made as an immediate fix. they were a way to change the entire course of the franchise. To grade the moves as a win/loss after just over a year is shortsighted. You have to see how the young guys perform, which may take 5+ years to make a determination on whether or not the trades were good moves or not.

    I hated the richards trade when it was made, but I understood why it was done (in conjunction with the carter trade). Neither richards or carter was a model of good health while they were here. And both had a propensity to party, so I believe mgmt thought they could have been doing more to take care of themselves.

    I don't know how any flyer fan can hate richards.

    The cup run was a bit of a fluke. They snuck into the playoffs on the last day of the season (ironically in a PK shootout), then got home ice advantage in the ECF. Home ice is not an advantage in the NHL, but it just shows how lucky the flyers got in their road to the cup that year.

    Try looking at things objectively rather than subjectively. It's gonna take more than one and a quarter seasons to grade the trades. I like the direction this franchise is headed in...whether they make playoffs this year or not
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    how can any flyer fan hate this??? mind boggling. dude was an animal

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs_3PeQQUxc
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,934
    The Fixer wrote:
    You are looking at things incorrectly. The carter/richards trades were not made as an immediate fix. they were a way to change the entire course of the franchise. To grade the moves as a win/loss after just over a year is shortsighted. You have to see how the young guys perform, which may take 5+ years to make a determination on whether or not the trades were good moves or not.

    I hated the richards trade when it was made, but I understood why it was done (in conjunction with the carter trade). Neither richards or carter was a model of good health while they were here. And both had a propensity to party, so I believe mgmt thought they could have been doing more to take care of themselves.

    I don't know how any flyer fan can hate richards.

    The cup run was a bit of a fluke. They snuck into the playoffs on the last day of the season (ironically in a PK shootout), then got home ice advantage in the ECF. Home ice is not an advantage in the NHL, but it just shows how lucky the flyers got in their road to the cup that year.

    Try looking at things objectively rather than subjectively. It's gonna take more than one and a quarter seasons to grade the trades. I like the direction this franchise is headed in...whether they make playoffs this year or not

    objectively - they have only one top level NHL forward in giroux, two promising young forwards in schenn and read, a bunch of good solid but not great veteran forwards, a solid but aging defense core whose best player has one more year tops, and a nut job goalie who you might have to amnesty just for the contract relief. If Brayden Schenn doesn't turn into a top 10-15 NHL forward in the next 2 years (this season plus the following 2) then what do you have? with the salary cap going down they most likely won't be able to just outspend teams to replace their veterans either.

    i see a mostly veteran team that is going to be right on the line for not making the playoffs this year...is the future really bright with how this roster is going to look in a year or two?
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    pjhawks wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    You are looking at things incorrectly. The carter/richards trades were not made as an immediate fix. they were a way to change the entire course of the franchise. To grade the moves as a win/loss after just over a year is shortsighted. You have to see how the young guys perform, which may take 5+ years to make a determination on whether or not the trades were good moves or not.

    I hated the richards trade when it was made, but I understood why it was done (in conjunction with the carter trade). Neither richards or carter was a model of good health while they were here. And both had a propensity to party, so I believe mgmt thought they could have been doing more to take care of themselves.

    I don't know how any flyer fan can hate richards.

    The cup run was a bit of a fluke. They snuck into the playoffs on the last day of the season (ironically in a PK shootout), then got home ice advantage in the ECF. Home ice is not an advantage in the NHL, but it just shows how lucky the flyers got in their road to the cup that year.

    Try looking at things objectively rather than subjectively. It's gonna take more than one and a quarter seasons to grade the trades. I like the direction this franchise is headed in...whether they make playoffs this year or not

    objectively - they have only one top level NHL forward in giroux, two promising young forwards in schenn and read, a bunch of good solid but not great veteran forwards, a solid but aging defense core whose best player has one more year tops, and a nut job goalie who you might have to amnesty just for the contract relief. If Brayden Schenn doesn't turn into a top 10-15 NHL forward in the next 2 years (this season plus the following 2) then what do you have? with the salary cap going down they most likely won't be able to just outspend teams to replace their veterans either.

    i see a mostly veteran team that is going to be right on the line for not making the playoffs this year...is the future really bright with how this roster is going to look in a year or two?

    if you don't think couturier, voracek (reminds me of a young gagne), and simmonds are potentially elite...well, I don't know what to tell you. other than you should watch more games.

    I can't see into the future, so I don't know what the roster will look like in two years. However, I do see the potential for a core group that can make multiple cup runs with guys like giroux, simmonds, voracek, schenn, couturier, read, cousins, and laughton. How quickly that can happen remains to be seen...but I do like the way this team is going. Right now they're the only team in philly worth being optimistic about.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Dr. Delight wrote:
    LOL, Welcome back Gagne.
    4th Rd pick going to LA

    This baffles me. A 4th isnt much..but I guess Holmgren believes this to be a playoff team. IDK.

    positive influence on the young forwards. gagne has always been a responsible two-way forward. right now voracek and couturier are the only ones who play defense.

    plus it could mean the end of knuble...which would be fantastic
  • pjhawks
    pjhawks Posts: 12,934
    The Fixer wrote:
    if you don't think couturier, voracek (reminds me of a young gagne), and simmonds are potentially elite...well, I don't know what to tell you. other than you should watch more games.

    I can't see into the future, so I don't know what the roster will look like in two years. However, I do see the potential for a core group that can make multiple cup runs with guys like giroux, simmonds, voracek, schenn, couturier, read, cousins, and laughton. How quickly that can happen remains to be seen...but I do like the way this team is going. Right now they're the only team in philly worth being optimistic about.

    i don't see any of those 3 being perennial all-stars (maybe couturier...maybe) so i wouldn't consider them possibly elite. maybe our definitions of elite are different?

    with the cap changing going to be much harder to replace a guy like timmonen in a year or two...and they will have a huge decision to make on Bryz. can you afford to keep him with the cap hit even with zero alternatives at the moment?
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    i would throw in that playoff success for the flyers has been dictated by 2 things of which no forward is involved ... that is goaltending and chris pronger ... if pronger was healthy either of the last 2 playoff runs ... you're likely to have a parade ...
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    pjhawks wrote:
    The Fixer wrote:
    if you don't think couturier, voracek (reminds me of a young gagne), and simmonds are potentially elite...well, I don't know what to tell you. other than you should watch more games.

    I can't see into the future, so I don't know what the roster will look like in two years. However, I do see the potential for a core group that can make multiple cup runs with guys like giroux, simmonds, voracek, schenn, couturier, read, cousins, and laughton. How quickly that can happen remains to be seen...but I do like the way this team is going. Right now they're the only team in philly worth being optimistic about.

    i don't see any of those 3 being perennial all-stars (maybe couturier...maybe) so i wouldn't consider them possibly elite. maybe our definitions of elite are different?

    with the cap changing going to be much harder to replace a guy like timmonen in a year or two...and they will have a huge decision to make on Bryz. can you afford to keep him with the cap hit even with zero alternatives at the moment?

    elite is probably excessive. solid/above avg/key contributors...whatever you want to call it. in the nhl you don't need a team full of all stars to win cups.

    timonen is 37 I believe. he's done after next year. We will see what happens with Bryz. He's been their best player this year. This season is jacked so I don't put much worth in anything that happens this year, but at the least I think he's proven that he can succeed here. The flyers have always done a great job managing the cap...I'm not fretting about what they end up doing with bryz. If anything, they will have a plan. They will find a way to find a number 1 d-man as well.

    You're all over the place dude. Just look at the big picture. You don't like the direction they are going in?
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    polaris_x wrote:
    i would throw in that playoff success for the flyers has been dictated by 2 things of which no forward is involved ... that is goaltending and chris pronger ... if pronger was healthy either of the last 2 playoff runs ... you're likely to have a parade ...

    good point. def unlucky with pronger.

    flyers are a great organization. they haven't won in a while, but it's definitely not from lack of effort. I love the way they are run and the direction in which they are headed. good stuff on the horizon
  • Dr. Delight
    Dr. Delight Posts: 11,210
    polaris_x wrote:
    i would throw in that playoff success for the flyers has been dictated by 2 things of which no forward is involved ... that is goaltending and chris pronger ... if pronger was healthy either of the last 2 playoff runs ... you're likely to have a parade ...
    Gotta disagree. The '11 run against the Bruins, Pronger would have helped for sure, but no way was the tandem of Bobrovsky and Boucher going to take them to the Cup.

    Last year, the club was way too young/inexperienced. They used all they had to beat the Penguins, then had nothing left against the Devils. Pronger again would not have made a difference.
    And so you see, I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.
  • The Fixer
    The Fixer Posts: 12,837
    Dr. Delight wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    i would throw in that playoff success for the flyers has been dictated by 2 things of which no forward is involved ... that is goaltending and chris pronger ... if pronger was healthy either of the last 2 playoff runs ... you're likely to have a parade ...
    Gotta disagree. The '11 run against the Bruins, Pronger would have helped for sure, but no way was the tandem of Bobrovsky and Boucher going to take them to the Cup.

    Last year, the club was way too young/inexperienced. They used all they had to beat the Penguins, then had nothing left against the Devils. Pronger again would not have made a difference.

    I think he absolutely would have made a diff last year. He was a guy who ate up 30 mins a game and brought such a calming presence. PLus he would have kept kubina and lilja off the ice

    Not meant to be. Now they need to find a replacement.
  • Dr. Delight
    Dr. Delight Posts: 11,210
    The Fixer wrote:
    Dr. Delight wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    i would throw in that playoff success for the flyers has been dictated by 2 things of which no forward is involved ... that is goaltending and chris pronger ... if pronger was healthy either of the last 2 playoff runs ... you're likely to have a parade ...
    Gotta disagree. The '11 run against the Bruins, Pronger would have helped for sure, but no way was the tandem of Bobrovsky and Boucher going to take them to the Cup.

    Last year, the club was way too young/inexperienced. They used all they had to beat the Penguins, then had nothing left against the Devils. Pronger again would not have made a difference.

    I think he absolutely would have made a diff last year. He was a guy who ate up 30 mins a game and brought such a calming presence. PLus he would have kept kubina and lilja off the ice

    Not meant to be. Now they need to find a replacement.
    My bad wording. Of course he would have made a big difference, but he still wasnt taking them to a SC either year. Plus Bryzgalov was playing like a complete sieve in net last year/1st round of playoffs.
    And so you see, I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.
  • Dr. Delight
    Dr. Delight Posts: 11,210
    So, Tye Mcginn has a broken orbital bone from his 1st period fight with Brown last night.
    The team then sends him out for the 2nd and 3rd periods last night. Hell of a medical staff!
    And so you see, I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.
  • Bathgate66
    Bathgate66 Posts: 15,813
    Dr. Delight wrote:
    So, Tye Mcginn has a broken orbital bone from his 1st period fight with Brown last night.
    The team then sends him out for the 2nd and 3rd periods last night. Hell of a medical staff!


    broken orbit?
    ouch !
    And, it basically holds the eyeball inside the head.
    Not a good idea for any more hockey.
    maybe the needed a CaT Scan to find it ?
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  • Dr. Delight
    Dr. Delight Posts: 11,210
    Bathgate66 wrote:
    Dr. Delight wrote:
    So, Tye Mcginn has a broken orbital bone from his 1st period fight with Brown last night.
    The team then sends him out for the 2nd and 3rd periods last night. Hell of a medical staff!


    broken orbit?
    ouch !
    And, it basically holds the eyeball inside the head.
    Not a good idea for any more hockey.
    maybe the needed a CaT Scan to find it ?
    Its the Flyers doctors/medical staff. They are notorious for this kind of crap. Not recognizing injuries/concussions.
    And so you see, I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Dr. Delight wrote:
    My bad wording. Of course he would have made a big difference, but he still wasnt taking them to a SC either year. Plus Bryzgalov was playing like a complete sieve in net last year/1st round of playoffs.

    yeah ... i said 2 things as goaltending was the other ... but pronger is huge ... it's why D-men go high in drafts and someone like schenn who barely scores gets traded for someone who does ...

    pronger was a rock back there and he anchored the pp ... huge loss in your last 2 playoff runs ...
  • Empty Glass
    Empty Glass In Rob's shed Posts: 12,329
    Gagne gets his first of the year tonight ;)
    I've met Rob

    DEGENERATE FUK

    This place is dead

    "THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015

    "Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
  • Empty Glass
    Empty Glass In Rob's shed Posts: 12,329
    Empty Glass wrote:
    Gagne gets his first of the year tonight ;)


    ^^^^

    This guy is a genius
    I've met Rob

    DEGENERATE FUK

    This place is dead

    "THERE ARE NO CLIQUES, ONLY THOSE WHO DON'T JOIN THE FUN" - Empty circa 2015

    "Kfsbho&$thncds" - F Me In the Brain - circa 2015
  • eeriepadave
    eeriepadave West Chester, PA Posts: 43,269
    Empty Glass wrote:
    Empty Glass wrote:
    Gagne gets his first of the year tonight ;)


    ^^^^

    This guy is a genius

    nice call :thumbup:

    Wonder where StevieG is? :think:
    8/28/98- Camden, NJ
    10/31/09- Philly
    5/21/10- NYC
    9/2/12- Philly, PA
    7/19/13- Wrigley
    10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
    10/21/13- Philly, PA
    10/22/13- Philly, PA
    10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
    4/28/16- Philly, PA
    4/29/16- Philly, PA
    5/1/16- NYC
    5/2/16- NYC
    9/2/18- Boston, MA
    9/4/18- Boston, MA
    9/14/22- Camden, NJ
    9/7/24- Philly, PA
    9/9/24- Philly, PA
    Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly. PA
    Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
    RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
  • Dr. Delight
    Dr. Delight Posts: 11,210
    The dreaded Saturday matinee game next to try and get to .500.
    Not gonna be easy.
    And so you see, I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.

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