Bruce Springsteen's Speech on The Election

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  • comebackgirl
    comebackgirl Posts: 9,885
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Ah oh, someone hit a nerve cutting down the Boss.
    That shit wouldn't fly in jersey :nono:

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    "I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    it would stand to reason that anyone who (passionately) rallys against war, either by activism or art, would NOT support / endorse a president that not only continued a war of choice based on lies, but started his own, no matter how many peace prizes are hung on his wall. to me it can only be seen as totally hypocritical and discrediting!
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JC29856 wrote:
    it would stand to reason that anyone who (passionately) rallys against war, either by activism or art, would NOT support / endorse a president that not only continued a war of choice based on lies, but started his own, no matter how many peace prizes are hung on his wall. to me it can only be seen as totally hypocritical and discrediting!

    What war did Obama start?
  • Newch91
    Newch91 Posts: 17,560
    comebackgirl wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Ah oh, someone hit a nerve cutting down the Boss.
    That shit wouldn't fly in jersey :nono:

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    :lol::lol:
    Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
    "Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Byrnzie wrote:
    JC29856 wrote:
    it would stand to reason that anyone who (passionately) rallys against war, either by activism or art, would NOT support / endorse a president that not only continued a war of choice based on lies, but started his own, no matter how many peace prizes are hung on his wall. to me it can only be seen as totally hypocritical and discrediting!

    What war did Obama start?

    technically wars are usually declared by congress, since neither the afghan or iraq wars were declared you could make a case that they technically are not wars...im sure you know i was referring to southern Afghanistan 2009 and the surge in 2010, which called into action 50,000 more troops, both of which were very successful in recruiting more "terrorists"
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JC29856 wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    JC29856 wrote:
    it would stand to reason that anyone who (passionately) rallys against war, either by activism or art, would NOT support / endorse a president that not only continued a war of choice based on lies, but started his own, no matter how many peace prizes are hung on his wall. to me it can only be seen as totally hypocritical and discrediting!

    What war did Obama start?

    technically wars are usually declared by congress, since neither the afghan or iraq wars were declared you could make a case that they technically are not wars...im sure you know i was referring to southern Afghanistan 2009 and the surge in 2010, which called into action 50,000 more troops, both of which were very successful in recruiting more "terrorists"

    Someone could claim that the Iraq and Afghan wars are not wars, but then they'd be an idiot, or a lawyer.

    As for any surges in those ongoing wars, in an alleged effort to bring those wars to a close, they do not constitute starting a war.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    What war did Obama start?[/quote]

    technically wars are usually declared by congress, since neither the afghan or iraq wars were declared you could make a case that they technically are not wars...im sure you know i was referring to southern Afghanistan 2009 and the surge in 2010, which called into action 50,000 more troops, both of which were very successful in recruiting more "terrorists"[/quote]

    Someone could claim that the Iraq and Afghan wars are not wars, but then they'd be an idiot, or a lawyer.

    As for any surges in those ongoing wars, in an alleged effort to bring those wars to a close, they do not constitute starting a war.[/quote]

    perfect: since we aren't being technical about wars, my question is how many people in sovereign nations have to die via "acts of aggression" for it to be considered war? here in the US it was about 3500, some more recently put the number to 3. how many humans died from drone attacks in pakistan, yemen, somalia iran and libya?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JC29856 wrote:
    perfect: since we aren't being technical about wars, my question is how many people in sovereign nations have to die via "acts of aggression" for it to be considered war? here in the US it was about 3500, some more recently put the number to 3. how many humans died from drone attacks in pakistan, yemen, somalia, iran, and libya?

    What nation attacked the U.S on 9/11?

    As for extra-judicial assassinations carried out using drones; they don't constitute wars, they constitute just what I said: extra-judicial-assassinations.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    who claimed a nation attacked the US on 911?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    How does a troop surge in an already existing war constitute starting a war?
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    how many people in sovereign nations have to die via "acts of aggression" for it to be considered war?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    JC29856 wrote:
    how many people in sovereign nations have to die via "acts of aggression" for it to be considered war?

    Depends on whether the aggression is being carried out by the government of a nation state, or by a sporadic group of individuals.
    You don't wage war on a disparate group of individuals. You apprehend them and arrest them, just as you would any other criminal.
  • Dr. Delight
    Dr. Delight Posts: 11,210
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Ah oh, someone hit a nerve cutting down the Boss.
    LOL. I have heard that Springsteen drives around in his car blasting his own music.
    And so you see, I have come to doubt
    All that I once held as true
    I stand alone without beliefs
    The only truth I know is you.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Dr. Delight wrote:
    LOL. I have heard that Springsteen drives around in his car blasting his own music.

    I have heard that the World's leaders are descended from a race of extra-terrestrial lizards.

    But I have my doubts about that.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    Byrnzie wrote:
    JC29856 wrote:
    how many people in sovereign nations have to die via "acts of aggression" for it to be considered war?

    Depends on whether the aggression is being carried out by the government of a nation state, or by a sporadic group of individuals.
    You don't wage war on a disparate group of individuals. You apprehend them and arrest them, just as you would any other criminal.
    which is what makes drone attacks, or extra-judicial assassinations, acts of war...no?
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Drowned Out wrote:
    which is what makes drone attacks, or extra-judicial assassinations, acts of war...no?


    Not too sure what international law states on this, but I would have thought that deadly attacks carried out on foreign soil by any government of a nation state would constitute an act of war.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    which is what makes drone attacks, or extra-judicial assassinations, acts of war...no?


    Not too sure what international law states on this, but I would have thought that deadly attacks carried out on foreign soil by any government of a nation state would constitute an act of war.
    So what distinction are you making between starting a war and an act of war? Whether or not the other state officially returns fire? Just curious if you're making a 'lesser of two evils' argument, or defending Obama's foreign policy? (or neither and I'm missing the point)....I think JC29856 has a valid point.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,374
    JC29856 wrote:
    how many people in sovereign nations have to die via "acts of aggression" for it to be considered war?
    It depends on what knowing nods are going on between each nation's leaders.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Drowned Out wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Drowned Out wrote:
    which is what makes drone attacks, or extra-judicial assassinations, acts of war...no?


    Not too sure what international law states on this, but I would have thought that deadly attacks carried out on foreign soil by any government of a nation state would constitute an act of war.
    So what distinction are you making between starting a war and an act of war? Whether or not the other state officially returns fire? Just curious if you're making a 'lesser of two evils' argument, or defending Obama's foreign policy? (or neither and I'm missing the point)....I think JC29856 has a valid point.

    Not defending Obama's foreign policy. Obama is the head of a nation state, so carrying out drone strikes on foreign soil should be considered acts of war.
    Whereas someone from Saudi Arabia setting off a bomb on a New York subway, or hijacking a plane and flying it into a skyscraper, isn't an act of war. It's an act of terrorism, and should be treated like any other violent crime.

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