Rep. Todd Akin: No pregnancy from 'legitimate rape'

redrock · August 2012

comebackgirl wrote:

norm wrote:

you can’t be this ignorant and be able to put on shoes

They didn't show his feet in the interview. I'm guessing he was shoeless

Wow... impressed that norm got this to shoes again...

pandora · August 2012

Zoso wrote:

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

Well there was a point to that of course perhaps over some heads ...

ooOOoo... catty again! Of course 'some' don't and won't ever understand, will they? (see... it's OK... I've put a winky guy...)

Guess arguments have run out...

no argument needed just a general verbal berating of this person's stupid ill informed comment

arguments what arguments? ...
I have a different technique, I try to understand and interpret where someone
is coming from, that is who I am. Learn more about what he meant, what it was based in.
So many just stop listening when they don't agree...
I want more than that, I want to understand the person...
I find most everyone deserves that.

Zoso · August 2012

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

There is no consensual rape, just like there are no consensual muggings, robberies, physical assaults, etc. As I said before, rape is about a lack of consent, which may or may not include physical violence.

I think we both interpreted his words the same. That's why I am so offended by what he said. I agree with you that it helps to know exactly who our elected officials are. He's painting a very clear picture of himself.

I disagree... Statutory rape can be consensual though not in the eyes of the law.
The law case here overturned conviction after a young man was imprisoned
on just this and often the cases don't go to court because of the same reason.
It was consenting so no case they knew a jury would not convict.

I know in my teens I was consenting like many girls, that is not rape.

And yes he is thanks to freedom of speech.

this isn't up for disagreeing it's fact.. someone who is a minor or disabled mentally can't give consent because mentally are unable to mentally do so.. they havent got the capacity to think through a situation like an adult would.

comebackgirl · August 2012

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

There is no consensual rape, just like there are no consensual muggings, robberies, physical assaults, etc. As I said before, rape is about a lack of consent, which may or may not include physical violence.

I think we both interpreted his words the same. That's why I am so offended by what he said. I agree with you that it helps to know exactly who our elected officials are. He's painting a very clear picture of himself.

I disagree... Statutory rape can be consensual though not in the eyes of the law.
The law case here overturned conviction after a young man was imprisoned
on just this and often the cases don't go to court because of the same reason.
It was consenting so no case they knew a jury would not convict.

I know in my teens I was consenting like many girls, that is not rape.

And yes he is thanks to freedom of speech.

In the case of statutory rape, the victim's age is the "no" - so whether or not he or she actually says "no" it's still not consensual. Indeed it's very difficult to get a conviction in these cases so many of them will not go to court.

Many people believe the age of consent is 18. That is not true in most states. In NJ the age of consent is 13. Under the age of 16 a kid can't consent to sexual activity to someone 4 or more years older than them (and it has to be to the day - so someone who is 13.5 can consent to someone that just turned 17), and between the ages of 16-18 they can't consent to someone who is a parent, guardian or in a position of authority. So a 14 year old can have sex with a 14 year old partner, a 15 year old can have sex with an 18 year old partner, and a 16 year old can consent to sex with anyone who doesn't have authority over them.

I do not believe a 12 year old can consent to sex as they do not have the mental capacity to do so, nor can a 13 year old consent to sex with an 18 year old. Here the law provides the protection so kids are not put in the position of having to try to protect themselves when developmentally they are not able to.

pandora · August 2012

Zoso wrote:

pandora wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

There is no consensual rape, just like there are no consensual muggings, robberies, physical assaults, etc. As I said before, rape is about a lack of consent, which may or may not include physical violence.

I think we both interpreted his words the same. That's why I am so offended by what he said. I agree with you that it helps to know exactly who our elected officials are. He's painting a very clear picture of himself.

I disagree... Statutory rape can be consensual though not in the eyes of the law.
The law case here overturned conviction after a young man was imprisoned
on just this and often the cases don't go to court because of the same reason.
It was consenting so no case they knew a jury would not convict.

I know in my teens I was consenting like many girls, that is not rape.

And yes he is thanks to freedom of speech.

this isn't up for disagreeing it's fact.. someone who is a minor or disabled mentally can't give consent because mentally are unable to mentally do so.. they havent got the capacity to think through a situation like an adult would.

Hey I was thinking fine when I was screwing my boyfriend...

comebackgirl · August 2012

redrock wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

norm wrote:

you can’t be this ignorant and be able to put on shoes

They didn't show his feet in the interview. I'm guessing he was shoeless

Wow... impressed that norm got this to shoes again...

This is why I adore Norm

Zoso · August 2012

Pandora do you disagree with the hardened evidence that the frontal cortex isn't fully developed at a certain age meaning they haven;t got the capacity to mentally think through the reasoning side of things.. this is proven science that is taught in ALL facets of education. You don't have to believe in science but I guess you have the freedom of speech to not believe in scientific facts.

redrock · August 2012

comebackgirl wrote:

In the case of statutory rape, the victim's age is the "no" - so whether or not he or she actually says "no" it's still not consensual.

......Here the law provides the protection so kids are not put in the position of having to try to protect themselves when developmentally they are not able to.

Whether the teen thinks she/he is 'mature' enough to be free with their body and 'give' this consent.

Seems like we're going back to medieval times on more than one aspect of this thread...

pandora · August 2012

comebackgirl wrote:

redrock wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

They didn't show his feet in the interview. I'm guessing he was shoeless

Wow... impressed that norm got this to shoes again...

This is why I adore Norm

yes Norm, she's great!

women and their shoes

Zoso · August 2012

redrock wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

In the case of statutory rape, the victim's age is the "no" - so whether or not he or she actually says "no" it's still not consensual.

......Here the law provides the protection so kids are not put in the position of having to try to protect themselves when developmentally they are not able to.

Whether the teen thinks she/he is 'mature' enough to be free with their body and 'give' this consent.

right.. the teen doesn't think 'I haven't got the mental capacity to make the correct decision' they just do what comes naturally which is always with less reason then an adults...

pandora · August 2012

Zoso wrote:

Pandora do you disagree with the hardened evidence that the frontal cortex isn't fully developed at a certain age meaning they haven;t got the capacity to mentally think through the reasoning side of things.. this is proven science that is taught in ALL facets of education. You don't have to believe in science but I guess you have the freedom of speech to not believe in scientific facts.

What the human brain can not understand until age 25 is consequence.
But the brain can understand love, sexual desires, etc.
The brain knows when the body is being raped
and when it isn't.

This might be going off topic though... Yes?

comebackgirl · August 2012

pandora wrote:

Zoso wrote:

Pandora do you disagree with the hardened evidence that the frontal cortex isn't fully developed at a certain age meaning they haven;t got the capacity to mentally think through the reasoning side of things.. this is proven science that is taught in ALL facets of education. You don't have to believe in science but I guess you have the freedom of speech to not believe in scientific facts.

What the human brain can not understand until age 25 is consequence.
But the brain can understand love, sexual desires, etc.
The brain knows when the body is being raped
and when it isn't.

This might be going off topic though... Yes?

There is a disparity between sexual development and mental development, which is why the law provides some protections.

inlet13 · August 2012

First, every single month it seems a media whirl-wind occurs that tries to garner public attention away from the faltering economy towards some social topic. I can think of a couple: Georgetown contraception, Chick-fil-A, etc.

This will be the new one for a few weeks, I guess.

Second, as for the points.... What's really the issue here? Is it that this guy opposes abortion even in the case of rape? Is that the issue? Or is it his phrasing?

I do completely agree that the term "legitimate rape" is confusing, and derogatory since it paints the picture that rape could ever "legitimate". I don't get that, but maybe it's a medical/legal term of sorts because he was saying "from what I understand from doctors" which makes it more confusing. Was he saying "legitimate rape" or do doctors say it? Moreover, what does the term actually mean?

If you watch the full context via the video, he later went on to say the "punishment should be on the rapist". It didn't appear to be him condoning rape at all, it appeared to him providing an answer to what he admitted to be a "tough, ethical question" - which fell on the pro-life side. Maybe I'm missing something though, admittedly. The public is split roughly 50/50 on abortion.... so, if outrage is simply due to abortion views, it's kinda nonsensical.

Zoso · August 2012

pandora wrote:

Zoso wrote:

Pandora do you disagree with the hardened evidence that the frontal cortex isn't fully developed at a certain age meaning they haven;t got the capacity to mentally think through the reasoning side of things.. this is proven science that is taught in ALL facets of education. You don't have to believe in science but I guess you have the freedom of speech to not believe in scientific facts.

What the human brain can not understand until age 25 is consequence.
But the brain can understand love, sexual desires, etc.
The brain knows when the body is being raped
and when it isn't.

This might be going off topic though... Yes?

not really on the right track about that.. sexual desires develop WAY before love I'm afraid.. again this isn't my opinion it's factual. This is why teen's and minors are protected by the law.

pandora · August 2012

inlet13 wrote:

First, every single month it seems a media whirl-wind occurs that tries to garner public attention away from the faltering economy towards some social topic. I can think of a couple: Georgetown contraception, Chick-fil-A, etc.

This will be the new one for a few weeks, I guess.

Second, as for the points.... What's really the issue here? Is it that this guy opposes abortion even in the case of rape? Is that the issue? Or is it his phrasing?

I do completely agree that the term "legitimate rape" is confusing, and derogatory since it paints the picture that rape could ever "legitimate". I don't get that, but maybe it's a medical/legal term of sorts because he was saying "from what I understand from doctors" which makes it more confusing. Was he saying "legitimate rape" or do doctors say it? Moreover, what does the term actually mean?

If you watch the full context via the video, he later went on to say the "punishment should be on the rapist". It didn't appear to be him condoning rape at all, it appeared to him providing an answer to what he admitted to be a "tough, ethical question" - which fell on the pro-life side. Maybe I'm missing something though, admittedly. The public is split roughly 50/50 on abortion.... so, if outrage is simply due to abortion views, it's kinda nonsensical.

as always a shining star in the rough

redrock · August 2012

Zoso wrote:

pandora wrote:

Zoso wrote:

Pandora do you disagree with the hardened evidence that the frontal cortex isn't fully developed at a certain age meaning they haven;t got the capacity to mentally think through the reasoning side of things.. this is proven science that is taught in ALL facets of education. You don't have to believe in science but I guess you have the freedom of speech to not believe in scientific facts.

What the human brain can not understand until age 25 is consequence.
But the brain can understand love, sexual desires, etc.
The brain knows when the body is being raped
and when it isn't.

This might be going off topic though... Yes?

not really on the right track about that.. sexual desires develop WAY before love I'm afraid.. again this isn't my opinion it's factual. This is why teen's and minors are protected by the law.

Frontal cortex is the home to sexual behaviour (as it is to the executive functions, judgement, language impulse control, etc.). And you are right Zoso... sexual desire/impulse comes before the 'emotion' of love within this realm (then the 'merging' to form relationships, etc.). Details of the functions of the frontal cortex may be slightly off topic but it does give an insight to 'consent' and being 'capable' of such.

redrock · August 2012

pandora wrote:

The brain knows when the body is being raped
and when it isn't.

Does it? I would be interested in seeing medical studies about this. Can you link some credible sources?

ComeToTX · August 2012

http://www.theonion.com/articles/congre ... gn=twitter

Zoso · August 2012

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

The brain knows when the body is being raped
and when it isn't.

Does it? I would be interested in seeing medical studies about this. Can you link some credible sources?

yeah no the brain doesn't always register this as a rape when it occurs.. not at all... if it's violent forceful rape that is different but most aren't.

comebackgirl · August 2012

inlet13 wrote:

First, every single month it seems a media whirl-wind occurs that tries to garner public attention away from the faltering economy towards some social topic. I can think of a couple: Georgetown contraception, Chick-fil-A, etc.

This will be the new one for a few weeks, I guess.

Second, as for the points.... What's really the issue here? Is it that this guy opposes abortion even in the case of rape? Is that the issue? Or is it his phrasing?

I do completely agree that the term "legitimate rape" is confusing, and derogatory since it paints the picture that rape could ever "legitimate". I don't get that, but maybe it's a medical/legal term of sorts because he was saying "from what I understand from doctors" which makes it more confusing. Was he saying "legitimate rape" or do doctors say it? Moreover, what does the term actually mean?

If you watch the full context via the video, he later went on to say the "punishment should be on the rapist". It didn't appear to be him condoning rape at all, it appeared to him providing an answer to what he admitted to be a "tough, ethical question" - which fell on the pro-life side. Maybe I'm missing something though, admittedly. The public is split roughly 50/50 on abortion.... so, if outrage is simply due to abortion views, it's kinda nonsensical.

I think there are 3 issues - 1) that he opposes the option of abortion even in the case of rape 2) that he believes it to be unlikely that a woman would conceive during rape (which makes me wonder why he's so concerned about blocking access to abortion for rape victims since it would rarely be needed) 3) the phrasing he used implying that there are rapes that are not legitimate.

While I don't agree with his views on abortion, I respect them and can understand them. My own personal outrage comes from the misinformation about the biology of what happens to a woman's body during an assault, and the devaluation of any rape survivor. It really does set victims' rights back by decades.

We're still waiting to hear what he meant by legitimate, but I doubt it will be forthcoming. "Legitimate rape" is not a term I've heard used by medical personnel or law enforcement when I did rape crisis work. I think this may be his own wording, but maybe he'll reference something.

I do agree that this is a diversionary tactic - and it works!

Rep. Todd Akin: No pregnancy from 'legitimate rape'

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