A Song Of Ice & Fire GRRM's Book Thread **Spoilers**

intodeep wrote:

Agreed. So happy he died a virgin

i thought they hooked him up before hand?

intodeep wrote:

Hmm I could be wrong but I didn't think it actually happened
i do recall Tyrion talking about getting him some whores at one point to hopefully calm him down some.

Its been a while i need to do a re read. Either way I'm glad he died.

ya ... that's what i am recalling ... yes ... for our purposes - he died a virgin ...

speaking of virgins ... ... what do we think of margaery!?? ... she sexually liberated or what!??

I posted this here, because I didn't want to be a spoiler on the HBO series thread.

In reference to the HBO adaptation, does anyone else hate how they are dealing with Renly (and Margaery Tyrell)?

In the books, Renly is flamboyant, gregarious, well-liked. There is NOTHING said about him being gay (or even implied for that matter, unless you count his "rainbow guard" :roll: ). Insert political rant: as someone very supportive of gay rights, it's frustrating that the producers/directors/storyboard writers took the book's description of his out-going and flamboyant personality, along with the reference to his "rainbow guard" and turned that into Renly being gay. It just reeks of an HBO attempt to be "edgy." End rant.

You hear very little about Renly and Margaery's marriage in the books, mainly, because its not much of a factor, because Renly isn't around for that long. Margaery's sexual proclivities are only an issue with regards to whether she is a virgin or not for her second marriage to you-know-who (even then its not that big of a deal), and the book's only implication regarding her sexuality is that she's innocent (or not experienced), as Cersei fabricates stories about Margaery to use against her. In other words, why the hell are they showing anything regarding Margaery's sexuality now? Doesn't it make Margaery's innocence at that later time less believable? Other than my wife and I agreeing that the actor playing Margaery is "elfishly hot," it seems a weird storyline decision to introduce anything about that now.

Again, for the record, I'm not trying to be a downer here. I like the show a lot, its well done in virtually every respect. But on the whole, when the show is true to Martin's story, I think its light years better than when it's not. Martin's story, as depicted on screen, comes across as genius storytelling (think of how well Baelish and Tyrion's scheming has played out so far, both of which are true to the books). When the show deviates from Martin's plot however, its flimsy and obvious.

Brienne's character looks almost exactly as I pictured her to. Someone mentioned the Tickler's interrogation of Arya, Hot Pie and others...from the previews of next week's episode, I think that part is definitely included.

vant0037 wrote:

I posted this here, because I didn't want to be a spoiler on the HBO series thread.

In reference to the HBO adaptation, does anyone else hate how they are dealing with Renly (and Margaery Tyrell)?

In the books, Renly is flamboyant, gregarious, well-liked. There is NOTHING said about him being gay (or even implied for that matter, unless you count his "rainbow guard" :roll: ). Insert political rant: as someone very supportive of gay rights, it's frustrating that the producers/directors/storyboard writers took the book's description of his out-going and flamboyant personality, along with the reference to his "rainbow guard" and turned that into Renly being gay. It just reeks of an HBO attempt to be "edgy." End rant.

You hear very little about Renly and Margaery's marriage in the books, mainly, because its not much of a factor, because Renly isn't around for that long. Margaery's sexual proclivities are only an issue with regards to whether she is a virgin or not for her second marriage to you-know-who (even then its not that big of a deal), and the book's only implication regarding her sexuality is that she's innocent (or not experienced), as Cersei fabricates stories about Margaery to use against her. In other words, why the hell are they showing anything regarding Margaery's sexuality now? Doesn't it make Margaery's innocence at that later time less believable? Other than my wife and I agreeing that the actor playing Margaery is "elfishly hot," it seems a weird storyline decision to introduce anything about that now.

Again, for the record, I'm not trying to be a downer here. I like the show a lot, its well done in virtually every respect. But on the whole, when the show is true to Martin's story, I think its light years better than when it's not. Martin's story, as depicted on screen, comes across as genius storytelling (think of how well Baelish and Tyrion's scheming has played out so far, both of which are true to the books). When the show deviates from Martin's plot however, its flimsy and obvious.

Brienne's character looks almost exactly as I pictured her to. Someone mentioned the Tickler's interrogation of Arya, Hot Pie and others...from the previews of next week's episode, I think that part is definitely included.

As intodeep mentioned, you do get hints about Renly's sexuality, though as far as I remember it isn't stated explicitly. The most obvious hint I remember is at the tournament to celebrate Ned being named Hand -- Littlefinger has a lighthearted but slightly acerbic give-and-take with Renly in the stands. He makes pretty clear reference to a love interest between Renly and the uber-handsome, somewhat effeminate knight whose name is now escaping me (Margaery's brother, I think?).

Regarding Margaery, maybe I missed something in my reading a year ago, but I don't recall it ever being made perfectly clear how much of her sordid sexual escapade was fabricated by Cersei and how much was true. My guess re: HBO's focus on her sexuality w/ Renly is that it is to set us up to believe Cersei's later fabrications (to the extent they are fabricated).

edit: haha, that, and it gave HBO an excuse to show boobies, which they are wont to do (God bless them).

MotoDC wrote:

As intodeep mentioned, you do get hints about Renly's sexuality, though as far as I remember it isn't stated explicitly. The most obvious hint I remember is at the tournament to celebrate Ned being named Hand -- Littlefinger has a lighthearted but slightly acerbic give-and-take with Renly in the stands. He makes pretty clear reference to a love interest between Renly and the uber-handsome, somewhat effeminate knight whose name is now escaping me (Margaery's brother, I think?).

Regarding Margaery, maybe I missed something in my reading a year ago, but I don't recall it ever being made perfectly clear how much of her sordid sexual escapade was fabricated by Cersei and how much was true. My guess re: HBO's focus on her sexuality w/ Renly is that it is to set us up to believe Cersei's later fabrications (to the extent they are fabricated).

edit: haha, that, and it gave HBO an excuse to show boobies, which they are wont to do (God bless them).

1. Margaery's brother is Loras, the Knight of Flowers.
2. I recall that most of the allegations against Margaery were false.

My problem though is like many; I read the books awhile ago, so its tough to recall exactly what happened or didn't happen. I do NOT remember a sexual scene with Renly and Margaery where she says "you can turn me over and pretend I'm my brother."

polaris_x wrote:

i thought margaery was enjoying herself!?? ... remember the moon tea master whoever had to keep bringing her?

I thought that was part of the lie?

polaris_x wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

I thought that was part of the lie?

if i recall correctly ... it was part of cersei's plan to get rid of her by getting one of the kettlebacks' to seduce her ... but in the end - it was happening anyways ... cersei had to force the master to confess to bringing margaery the moon tea ...

I'll need to grab my books. I thought Cersei's plan included the Kettlebacks and a maester...

...in any event, I recall reading her as innocent of Cersei's allegations.

MotoDC wrote:

Yeah this uncertainty (between the two of you) is kinda what I was talking about before. That is, I no longer recall the details, but I remember at the time of reading being left with the impression that not all of Margaery's naughtiness was a fabrication of Cersei's.

Vant0037, let us know what you find if you dig back into your book! :corn:

i tried some google searches to see if some of the fan sites had anything definitive ... but what it came down was pure speculation ... there was a poll i think and most didn't think she was a virgin ... but it may not be definitive ...

vant0037 wrote:

I'm now realizing that we are all pawn's GRRM's game...

This is probably exactly what he intended (that people would speculate, discuss and debate about what is actually true)...

what a fucker!! ...

he better be writing right now!

MotoDC wrote:

Anyhow, who do you guys think was most perfectly cast, besides Tyrion, ofc? A few folks have said Brienne, but to be honest, I didn't see her being a giant-sized, short-haired blond. I almost pictured her like a WNBA-sized, less feminine Julianne Moore. I know, I know, I'm kinda like wtf too. But the scenes with her in them almost look superimposed or something. At first I thought Arya, especially her "boyself", was a top-tier pick, but now I'm starting to think it's the eunich, Varys. Although I think the actor should play him more tittering, less sinister, he looks just like I expected him to look.

Oh, side note, I think Stannis was the least like I pictured him. Maybe Ser Mormont (Dany's guard) as well. He's too fair. Aren't Mormonts supposed to be dark and hairy like bears?

Most like I pictured: Tyrion, Baelish, Robert, Davos.
Least like I pictured: Craster, Stannis (so far, as I'm sure there will be more).