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limited edition vinyl records,why?
with benny hall ,live on two legs,in to the wild,binural etc all being very [limited],pj should know that they are hurting their fans,so many are very loyal,we the fans have to dig deep to buy these lps from places like ebay ect,an extra few thousand could very easy be pressed at very little cost,even if they were more expensive from the ten club,the fans on this board would pay it,also if someone new discovers pearl jam tomorrow its going to be impossible for them to start collecting pj vinyl,unless the spend a vast amount of cash,im not putting the band down by the way,they must know whats happening on e bay?
cork 96,dublin 96,dublin 00,dublin 06,london 08, dublin 10, belfast 10, ev solo London 2012
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Stay ahead of the album trends. Yeah binaural is out of print and is too spendy to buy. Move on and buy an album that is affordable and may become an investment in the future. That way you can sell it off when it becomes worth something, then you can take that profit and buy whatever pearl jam album you want with it.
A collection is only worth collecting because these records are an investment and there is the thrill of the hunt in the process of collecting them.
If you could have immediate gratification with being able to have every vinyl you want all at once and they will never gain in value, then what's the point? There's other music formats for that such as CD's or MP3's.
I like them to listen to but glad they are rare in case I get in a bind I can sell them. Just like the boxes of baseball cards I have been moving around with me since my childhood.
"I need honesty, I need truth, and I need hope...I need it! That's what music means to me." EV
If they start printing new copies, the compromise the integrity of the process.
And if he was a real fan he would make more money to buy them!
the real reason is because it becomes an investment and the people who have the biggest pay off of those investments are those who were orginal fans of the album in the first place.
this makes no sense...are you saying that if i didint like no code when it came out but i like it now i have no right to want the vinyl edition? if i didnt buy it the day it came out then im not a true fan? you think the band makes these limited so their fans can manke money off of them? these are not investments for you guys to make money on...
im with the original poster here...nobody has given any good reason as to why these are so limited....what is the point? id love to have 4 12in wax pieces full of live pearl jam but it was limitied to 2000 copies...WHY? so 2000 pearl jam fans can feel cooler then the rest? why not just print some more...
these are records people...not investments....if you walk into a record store wanting to buy the new pearl jam album on vinyl so that you can keep it sealed and flip it in a few years for 10 times what you paid you dont deserve to have the record at all...
pearl jam doenst release a limited amount of these so that the "true fans" can make money off an "investment" . I know thats not the reason...but what is?
why not release twice as many? why not 4 times as many? are they worried they are gonna sit on 10c like the skateboards?
what is the point?
That's actually not at all what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that the people who supported no code when it first came out bought it on vinyl for 12 bucks. They played it, enjoyed it, listened to it, etc. etc.
Now that they have enjoyed and held onto that vinyl for so long, they now get to have a biggest pay off relative to fans who have just decided to want No Code which is either still holding onto that vinyl or reselling it if they want to.
You and everyone else has every right to 'want' the vinyl edition right now. But your going to have to pay what current demand for the album says it's worth. And if your decide to turn around and resell it, you're not going to make that much from it. You'll still be rewarded as much as anyone else who has it in their collection, but you won't earn as big of a profit compared to someone else who bought the album earlier on.
As for you pulling out the 'true fan' card. I don't think anyone purchases records in order to be considered a 'true fan'. I think after 8 years of reading and posting on this board it can be well decided and supported that there is no such thing as a true fan and that the argument of what makes a true fan is purely irrelevant. I don't think anyone has anything to prove when it comesto enjoying pearl jam. The only 'non-true fans' out there are probably the ones who consider themselves to be 'true fans' because they're not enjoying pearl jam for the collecting or the music but rather just to feed their ego.
As for people collecting things, unless you have OCD, the whole point of it all is to make an investment for the future. That's why things are titled "Collectors Edition" or "Limited Edition".
Limited prints are designed for the purpose of being a hot commodity for collectors.
Does the band directly sell limited prints so their fans can make money off of them? Obviously not.
Does the band sell limited prints in order to be able to sell X amounts of albums in their marketing contract to collectors? yes
Do collectors collect in hopes of using whatever their collection may be worth for the future? yes
Does everyone have the right to listen to vinyl? yes
Does everyone have to right to invest in vinyl? yes
ITW was originally supposed to be fan club only but a few small record retailers got some of them... Again I believe they thought they wouldn't sell many more than what they did.
PJ is all about vinyl but some of their albums are rarer because vinyl only recently regained some popularity. Albums like Binaural, Yield, No Code, LOTL were all released based on dwindling LP sales figures... That's why they are rare.
It's possible they could reissue the albums. They reissued Ten.
A master press is not cheap either so in order to reissue certain albums it would have to be profitable or as a gift to the fans.
Masters are good for only so many albums.
Making, designing, pressing and packaging vinyl records is expensive and time consuming.
The band has to determine how many albums to press by how many they think they will sell. Press too many and you're stuck with a thousand or two vinyl records and a financial loss.
Then there is the aspect of it being a special limited edition for collectors. There's always been limited special editions. Not only in the vinyl record business, but books, Cars, CDs and a lot of other product markets.
Usually special editions offer special features, improved internal/exterior components or something that is rare (hard to find).
It creates a special item for the fans (or consumer), which creates a demand. Or achieves a higher standard of quality than the regular/mainstream edition.
There's also a sentimental element to it all.
There's a lot of reasons for Limited Special Editions. I'm guessing Pearl Jam could probably provide even a few more reasons.
If that's not good enough of an answer for you, then...... Bite Me!:D:D;)
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(This Post May Have Been Edited By AT&T)
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To bad YouthCare doesn't get all the money the Vinyl sells for. I would love to have one, but noway I spend that much cash
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(This Post May Have Been Edited By AT&T)
so i should buy the record when it comes out so i can make a bigger profit on it down the line? is this why i should go to record stores? hoping to buy something for cheap so i can flip it later for more?
all this talk of profit and investment is not right...collectors dont collect things hoping to make more money off of them in the future...thats what flippers do...collectors collect things because they enjoy having them and have no interest in selling them off or making a profit off of them. they have a passion for the items not their worth or the possible profits that could be made.
i do agree though, it is genius to buy em when they come out!
from my argument it may seem like i dont have any of the vinyls, but i have the entire set sans benny hall. i still say repress them all!
i still believe that they shouldnt be as limited...i still think any new fan should be able to go out and get the music in any format it was released on for the price it was released at.
if all these records were repressed it seems that many people on the list would be upset because their "investment" wouldnt be as "profitable." The ones who wouldnt be upset are those who arent interested in the possible profit they could make...people like cropduster who threw down $850 for a benny so he could open it up a listen to it...he doesnt want to sell it and hes not interested in profit. if they were repressed, collectors would still want the original pressings but theyd be more affordable.
i do realize that the pressing process is expensive and time consuming, im also aware that presses cannot pump out infinite copies of records...so those are semi-decent reasons.
but we are talking about pearl jam here not some barely sucessful, underground band...is ending up with a few thousand extra vinyls going to break the band? how long have some of those shirts been sitting in 10c? if they had pressed 20,000 ITW instead of whatever they did is the band going to fail?
i just think the band should be aware that fans are paying ridiculous prices for their music on the secondary market. im sure when they made the limited pressing of benny hall they werent expecting to see it on ebay reaching the $1000 mark in just a few years...
the music is meant to be heard not hoarded...and its not so fans can profit off of it!
I'd like to see the vinyl reissued so I can purchase back-up copies
I mean shit, binaural wasnt even that popular amongst the masses! i just wanted to be able to hook up headphones to my record player and listen to my fav pj tunes..
i know there has to be so many binaurals , bennys and itw's that are on a fucking wall some where.... a crying shame :(
They wouldn't be put up on my wall, but I wouldn't have any problem knowing that someone else wanted to put it up on their wall since they spent their money on that LP that they now own, they have the right to do whatever they want with it.
although slightly off-topic, Brad Klausen shed some light recently about the whole "limited" concept with regards to PJ posters when asked why posters are printed in small numbers. his answer does touch on some points that carry over well to the vinyl issue/argument at hand. regardless, thought it was worth repeating in this thread:
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Atlanta 2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
Plus, we all love Benaroya, but if it wasn't so rare and no one talked about it, would you want one? I most likely would not, honestly.
Having said that, I do think if I came across a copy of Binaural, I would be afraid and nervous every time I played it.
if they decided to repress benny the last thing they would consider was the feelings of the fans who shelled out big bucks for a copy...this should be one of the main reasons for repressing it not the other way around. plus, there would still be a difference between the original and the repressed editions.
why wouldnt you want a live pearl jam vinyl? if benny wasnt so rare and it wasnt so talked about it would still be a kick ass recording of an amazing performance and only the second LIVE pearl jam vinyl out there. so i gotta think most fans would still want one...which is why it baffles me that it was so limited.
if you buy the album you have every right to do whatever the heck you please with it. keep it sealed, open it, worship it, eat it, melt it...whatever. its your choice to turn your money into your happiness....but the band made the record to be heard, not so their fans could profit off of selling it.
on a slightly different but related topic ...i picked up the 180g repress of TEN today and it blows the doors off the original pressing...sounds much better and cleaner at high volume!
Records like No Code, Binaural and to a lesser extent Yield, did not sell huge numbers on CD, so I could see why there may have been some hesitation on the band’s part with printing big runs of those records on a nostalgic, but very much "dead" format at the time. It is also understandable why the first three records were, and still are readily available on LP due to their popularity. Riot Act is now out of print, but I remember it being available on the site and in shops for what seemed like a long time after it came out.
Vinyl has come back in a big way in the mid-to-late 2000's, but I think it is still very much a niche format. Record sales in general have been slumping year after year, and I think that the recent interest in LP’s contributes a very small percentage of total records sold. I could be wrong, but I suspect that although the band really loves vinyl, it is ultimately a business decision of how much will actually sell vs. the cost of unsold units sitting in a warehouse for an indefinite period of time.
A great example is Jeff’s new CD. It is being sold in limited numbers through the website, and I believe select indie shops. Why? I think it is because Pearl Jam knows that the people who would be interested in buying it are mainly Pearl Jam fans, and not the average person who walks into Wal-mart, Virgin or HMV. The same goes for vinyl. I’ve been in plenty of stores that sell vinyl and the big sellers seem to be mainly indie bands like Arcade Fire or Vampire Weekend, nostalgic rock like the Beatles or Pink Floyd, and dance/hip hop. WE want Pearl Jam LP’s, but I fear that we are a small minority.
I think vinyl is great, and I wouldn’t shed a tear if Pearl Jam re-released out-of-print albums that I paid a premium for because I think everyone should have the opportunity.
Saratoga Springs, Toronto '00
Toronto, Montreal '03
Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto '05
Toronto I & II, Albany, Hartford, Gorge I '06
Camden I & II, Washington DC '08
Toronto, Chicago I '09
Columbus, Indianapolis, Buffalo '10
Alpine Valley I & II, Toronto I & II, Hamilton '11
London, Buffalo '13
Detroit '14
Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I & II '16
to please the "fan in need" well, print the old albums on vinyl again, be V2. won't be limited like the originals, but just a re-release of the product for other's to enjoy. but will that stop the fan that is dying to get the first print? to pay big bucks for the limited edition copy? well, you had your chance many months back to buy it. it's gone. now, accept v2 of the product.
same goes with posters. hmm .. so ya love those '98 posters eh? np. print another 100 of each .. but have like logos on the bottom left/right of the poster, v2 or something. just to please the fan in need. will fans buy old prints amesbros had year's back, re-release them for like 30 bucks a pop, but include printed marks that they are v2 of the product or something? what do you think?
i won't be suprise something like this will happen down the road.
ok. sorry for the rant. it's 1:30am. no work till 11am tomorrow. painters haven't even finished the rooms for me to lay my ceramic tiles down. argh ...
2000 – Toronto, ACC
2003 – Toronto, Molson Amphitheatre
2005 – London, JLC
Toronto, ACC
2006 – Toronto 1 & 2, ACC
2008 - Toronto Massey Hall 1 & 2
2009 - Toronto, Molson Amphitheatre
2011 - Detroit, Fox Theatre
2011 - Toronto 1 ACC
Hamilton, Copps Coliseum
2013 - London, JLC
Buffalo, FNC
2014 - Detroit, Joe Louis Arena
2016 - Toronto 1 & 2, ACC
2018 - Boston 1 & 2, Fenway Park
makes me feel like a LOTL vinyl straight up for a Klausen TORONTO 06 poster isnt that bad a trade....anyone interested in a LOTL for toronto 06, pm me...+ cash for an A/P.
not when i could be usin that shit for its actual purpose! "Ohhhhhhhhhh look at my 200 dollar copy of Binaural guys.. its so beautiful you guys, seriously" "can we listen to it?" "um NO.. its limited edition vinyl, ASSHOLE!"
If you want to hang something on the wall... buy a fucking poster .. but yes sir, thanks for pointing out that i can't do anything about what other people do with their vinyl, as if it were not so painfully obvious to me already. Hence my frustration.
Ps, who ever was babbling about the "if there was a bunch of them, nobody would want them" crap... first off, thats a load. I wanted the benny lp because i thought it would be SO COOL to have at least one live pj vinyl just like i have with all my other favs. I don't want the vinyl because some asshole decided to tease me and only produce a few.
LOL, talk about obsessive:D
When a vinyl record of one of my all-time favorites is released or reissued, I usually buy at least two. Sometimes three.
One to play. One as backup, to be eventually played. And the third I put aside and save for the future. If one of my boys ends up loving the album, it's his.
Although I'm in trouble if they both turn into the same kind of music-lover, their dad is:D
Hype=excellent marketing!