Russia Discloses the U.S. Ultimatum to Iran...

inlet13
inlet13 Posts: 1,979
edited March 2012 in A Moving Train
Russians seem right on this one...


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/russia-di ... d-year-end

In what can only be seen as raising the rhetoric bar on the timing, scale, and seriousness of the Iran 'situation', Kommersant is reporting that "Tehran has one last chance" as US Secretary of State Clinton asks her Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov to relay the message to Iranian leaders. If this 'last chance' is wasted an attack will happen in months as diplomats noted that the probability of an Israel/US attack on Iran is now a specific 'when' instead of an indefinite 'if'. The sentiment is best summarized by a quote from inside the meeting "The invasion will happen before year’s end. The Israelis are de facto blackmailing Obama. They’ve put him in this interesting position – either he supports the war or loses the support of the Jewish lobby". Russian diplomats, as Russia Today points out, criticized the 'last chance' rhetoric as unprofessional suggesting "those tempted to use military force should restrain themselves - a war will not solve any problems, but create a million new ones."
Here's a new demo called "in the fire":

<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt; <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
Post edited by Unknown User on
«13

Comments

  • Monster Rain
    Monster Rain Posts: 1,415
    Hmmm. If that's true, then such a sternly-worded threat would seem to go against this quote from Monday:
    Obama said in an interview Monday that the biggest driver "of these high gas prices is speculation about possible war in the Middle East" and that his administration has been trying to reduce "some of the loose talk" about war there.

    I just want to make sure I understand everything Obama and some of his supporters have been saying recently. The President has no control over gas prices, but Republican candidates with no shot of winning the nomination do. This "loose talk" about a war is a problem, but having the Secretary of State threaten a war before the year ends is not. Pre-emptive strike in Iraq: not OK. Pre-emptive strike in Iran: OK.
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Hmmm. If that's true, then such a sternly-worded threat would seem to go against this quote from Monday:
    Obama said in an interview Monday that the biggest driver "of these high gas prices is speculation about possible war in the Middle East" and that his administration has been trying to reduce "some of the loose talk" about war there.

    I just want to make sure I understand everything Obama and some of his supporters have been saying recently. The President has no control over gas prices, but Republican candidates with no shot of winning the nomination do. This "loose talk" about a war is a problem, but having the Secretary of State threaten a war before the year ends is not. Pre-emptive strike in Iraq: not OK. Pre-emptive strike in Iran: OK.

    I don' t think anyone really is saying a pre-emptive strike is ok...except for the Neo-cons and apparently the Obama administration.

    All this because a tiny little country in the middle east has such terrible relations with its neighbors ... I am beginning to hate Israel...we get it, your cock is huge...why do they always have to measure it and bring us into it in the process?
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    war = $$$$
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    polaris_x wrote:
    war = $$$$


    there will possibly be a global recession if this war happens...our dollar cannot take any more actions that make it weaker and the deficits that come with war will do just that...that makes all the dollars anyone in the MIC may gain useless in the long run...they better hope they are able to mine gold or some other earth metals from Iran...I don't think the oil will even be worth it in the long run...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    there will possibly be a global recession if this war happens...our dollar cannot take any more actions that make it weaker and the deficits that come with war will do just that...that makes all the dollars anyone in the MIC may gain useless in the long run...they better hope they are able to mine gold or some other earth metals from Iran...I don't think the oil will even be worth it in the long run...

    that's the thing tho ... the mic and oil companies don't care about that ...
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    there will possibly be a global recession if this war happens...our dollar cannot take any more actions that make it weaker and the deficits that come with war will do just that...

    Not to mention hundreds of thousands of dead men, women, and children.

    But the Israeli's love war. They can't get enough of it. They start a new war every few years like clockwork. Maybe they think they're invincible?
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    I am beginning to hate Israel...we get it, your cock is huge...why do they always have to measure it and bring us into it in the process?


    israel is not our friend. they spy on us and steal secrets and they have physically attacked us, i say fuck em, stop selling them weapons, stop giving them money, stop vetoing everything and anything against them.....
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    Byrnzie wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    there will possibly be a global recession if this war happens...our dollar cannot take any more actions that make it weaker and the deficits that come with war will do just that...

    Not to mention hundreds of thousands of dead men, women, and children.

    But the Israeli's love war. They can't get enough of it. They start a new war every few years like clockwork. Maybe they think they're invincible?


    or maybe they're crazy?
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    or maybe they're crazy?

    their entire PR strategy is based on their security and their perceived threats ... if there is peace in israel - their entire PR strategy would have to change ... uhhh ... we gotta build a wall and starve children because god told us to ... that would work with quite a few people ...
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Byrnzie wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    there will possibly be a global recession if this war happens...our dollar cannot take any more actions that make it weaker and the deficits that come with war will do just that...

    Not to mention hundreds of thousands of dead men, women, and children.

    But the Israeli's love war. They can't get enough of it. They start a new war every few years like clockwork. Maybe they think they're invincible?


    right, I was more referring to the MIC's interests...Global recession and depression harms them as much as anyone...they cannot make money if there is none to be had...they cannot sell the spoils of war if no countries have the currency to buy anything.

    I don't even want to think about the carnage and devastation unleashed yet...I am hoping cooler heads will prevail and this stand off will be eased. i just don't see how this happens with the Israeli's pushing for war.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,548
    inlet13 wrote:
    Russians seem right on this one...


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/russia-di ... d-year-end

    In what can only be seen as raising the rhetoric bar on the timing, scale, and seriousness of the Iran 'situation', Kommersant is reporting that "Tehran has one last chance" as US Secretary of State Clinton asks her Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov to relay the message to Iranian leaders. If this 'last chance' is wasted an attack will happen in months as diplomats noted that the probability of an Israel/US attack on Iran is now a specific 'when' instead of an indefinite 'if'. The sentiment is best summarized by a quote from inside the meeting "The invasion will happen before year’s end. The Israelis are de facto blackmailing Obama. They’ve put him in this interesting position – either he supports the war or loses the support of the Jewish lobby". Russian diplomats, as Russia Today points out, criticized the 'last chance' rhetoric as unprofessional suggesting "those tempted to use military force should restrain themselves - a war will not solve any problems, but create a million new ones."

    I'm not sure your link is so trustworthy. It has the whole 'cataclysm' vibe to it and you've posted iffy links to this Tyler guy who now looks more like Fight Club Brad Pitt and can also translate Russian.
  • inlet13
    inlet13 Posts: 1,979
    Ugh.

    Israel AND Iran are both scapegoats here.

    If we don't want a war, WE shouldn't be making ultimatums. We should stay the F out of it and make it known that we don't want an escalation. What Israel and Iran do is their own sovereign right. We can say "we do not want Iran to have a bomb"... that's fine, but we should try to understand why they want one. We can say "Isreal is our ally", but we can disagree with allies. Anything beyond that words directed to Iran or Israel is lighting the match... it's prompting war.

    I remember this administration preaching the evils of pre-emtive war. Where's that doctrine now? Why aren't they saying Israel would be in the wrong if they did this? Why would they even consider having us do this, if they're against pre-emptive war? The Iraq war, and the war in Afghanistan, would pale in comparison to this.

    I think we all know WWIII is around the corner if this happens.

    People and nations get desperate when they are broke.
    Here's a new demo called "in the fire":

    <object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt; <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
  • inlet13
    inlet13 Posts: 1,979
    Go Beavers wrote:
    inlet13 wrote:
    Russians seem right on this one...


    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/russia-di ... d-year-end

    In what can only be seen as raising the rhetoric bar on the timing, scale, and seriousness of the Iran 'situation', Kommersant is reporting that "Tehran has one last chance" as US Secretary of State Clinton asks her Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov to relay the message to Iranian leaders. If this 'last chance' is wasted an attack will happen in months as diplomats noted that the probability of an Israel/US attack on Iran is now a specific 'when' instead of an indefinite 'if'. The sentiment is best summarized by a quote from inside the meeting "The invasion will happen before year’s end. The Israelis are de facto blackmailing Obama. They’ve put him in this interesting position – either he supports the war or loses the support of the Jewish lobby". Russian diplomats, as Russia Today points out, criticized the 'last chance' rhetoric as unprofessional suggesting "those tempted to use military force should restrain themselves - a war will not solve any problems, but create a million new ones."

    I'm not sure your link is so trustworthy. It has the whole 'cataclysm' vibe to it and you've posted iffy links to this Tyler guy who now looks more like Fight Club Brad Pitt and can also translate Russian.

    another source:

    http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/03/14/200567.html
    Here's a new demo called "in the fire":

    <object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot;&gt;&lt;/param&gt; <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869&quot; type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    inlet13 wrote:
    Ugh.

    Israel AND Iran are both scapegoats here.

    If we don't want a war, WE shouldn't be making ultimatums. We should stay the F out of it and make it known that we don't want an escalation. What Israel and Iran do is their own sovereign right. We can say "we do not want Iran to have a bomb"... that's fine, but we should try to understand why they want one. We can say "Isreal is our ally", but we can disagree with allies. Anything beyond that words directed to Iran or Israel is lighting the match... it's prompting war.

    I remember this administration preaching the evils of pre-emtive war. Where's that doctrine now? Why aren't they saying Israel would be in the wrong if they did this? Why would they even consider having us do this, if they're against pre-emptive war? The Iraq war, and the war in Afghanistan, would pale in comparison to this.

    I think we all know WWIII is around the corner if this happens.

    People and nations get desperate when they are broke.

    not sure about WW3 ... but everything else i completely agree with ...
  • usamamasan1
    usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    I don' t think anyone really is saying a pre-emptive strike is ok...except for the Neo-cons and apparently the Obama administration.


    :wave: don't forget about me and millions of others...

    no nukes for Iran. nope.
  • mikepegg44 wrote:
    Hmmm. If that's true, then such a sternly-worded threat would seem to go against this quote from Monday:
    Obama said in an interview Monday that the biggest driver "of these high gas prices is speculation about possible war in the Middle East" and that his administration has been trying to reduce "some of the loose talk" about war there.

    I just want to make sure I understand everything Obama and some of his supporters have been saying recently. The President has no control over gas prices, but Republican candidates with no shot of winning the nomination do. This "loose talk" about a war is a problem, but having the Secretary of State threaten a war before the year ends is not. Pre-emptive strike in Iraq: not OK. Pre-emptive strike in Iran: OK.

    I don' t think anyone really is saying a pre-emptive strike is ok...except for the Neo-cons and apparently the Obama administration.

    All this because a tiny little country in the middle east has such terrible relations with its neighbors ... I am beginning to hate Israel...we get it, your cock is huge...why do they always have to measure it and bring us into it in the process?


    "starting to hate Israel b/c they can't get along with people" sworn to annhilate them....????????

    You get it? "There cock is huge."??????????


    Well, that is a very academic approach... Sure you don't work at the UN?

    Looks like the economy isn't the only thing in recession....

    Why someone as intelligent as myself would come here for reasons other than entertainment, is apparently, the only thing I do not know.... 8-)
  • mikepegg44 wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    war = $$$$


    there will possibly be a global recession if this war happens...our dollar cannot take any more actions that make it weaker and the deficits that come with war will do just that...that makes all the dollars anyone in the MIC may gain useless in the long run...they better hope they are able to mine gold or some other earth metals from Iran...I don't think the oil will even be worth it in the long run...

    :lol:

    As if the world is not in a global recession already.....

    Awesome day on the Train.... historic, really.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,297
    inlet13 wrote:
    If this 'last chance' is wasted an attack will happen in months as diplomats noted that the probability of an Israel/US attack on Iran is now a specific 'when' instead of an indefinite 'if'. The sentiment is best summarized by a quote from inside the meeting "The invasion will happen before year’s end.
    There is little logic to this. No way Obama is attacking during an election year. Also, do you really think the U.S. is going to invade Iran? Even if Israel did a covert strike in Iran and Iran responded by attacking U.S. interests, I could see the U.S. responding by attacking Iran assets that pose threat, but I don't see them rolling tanks into Tehran which is strategically tucked away in the northern part of the country.

    Israel doesn't have the capability to invade Iran. Perhaps a covert strike, but they have built their Army primarily to defend nearby territory. They don't have the capability to stage a large-scale invasion in Iran, especially considering Tel Aviv is over 1,000 miles from Tehran as the crow flies.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    There is little logic to this. No way Obama is attacking during an election year. Also, do you really think the U.S. is going to invade Iran? Even if Israel did a covert strike in Iran and Iran responded by attacking U.S. interests, I could see the U.S. responding by attacking Iran assets that pose threat, but I don't see them rolling tanks into Tehran which is strategically tucked away in the northern part of the country.

    Israel doesn't have the capability to invade Iran. Perhaps a covert strike, but they have built their Army primarily to defend nearby territory. They don't have the capability to stage a large-scale invasion in Iran, especially considering Tel Aviv is over 1,000 miles from Tehran as the crow flies.

    uhhh ... unless they have access to bases in neighbouring countries ... let's see here ... which countries border iran!? ... iraq, afghanistan ... phew ... good thing the US set up permanent military bases over there for the last decade ...
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,297
    polaris_x wrote:
    uhhh ... unless they have access to bases in neighbouring countries ... let's see here ... which countries border iran!? ... iraq, afghanistan ... phew ... good thing the US set up permanent military bases over there for the last decade ...
    The U.S. pulled out of Iraq. A invasion into Iran would take a large build-up in Iraq that would take some significant time and take away any surprise advantage. Iran would have time to dig-in and the political firestorm would be brutal. And the semi-mountainous terrain of western Iran would make a troop surge very difficult.

    Now for Afghanistan. Look at the topography of Afghanistan. It's tough enough to keep a supply chain moving through Pakistan to keep operations moving forward in the eastern regions of Afghanistan. And Tel Aviv is as close to Tehran as Kabul is. That is a long drive through enemy and insurgent territory. And just like an attack from Iraq, the terrain and infrastructure would pose significant challenges.

    In order for a full-scale invasion to succeed quickly and without high casualties, the invaders would have to come in from the Caspian Sea in the north. And the Caspian Sea is bordered by Russian influenced countries.

    My point is that it's not like Obama can push a button and we are suddenly in Iran. An invasion build-up would take a lot of time and scrutiny, both in the media and in congress. A resolution of war would need to be passed. Is a war-weary nation with a democratic president going to be able to pull that off an unprovoked invasion? (that's rhetorical, BTW)
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
This discussion has been closed.