Fukishima a year later.

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  • StillHere
    StillHere Posts: 7,795
    satansbed wrote:


    i found this which from the department of health of pennsylvania which says other that cancer rates in the pottstown area are no different than the pennsylvania average

    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=& ... C5ZSjqFgjw (its a PDF)

    While the quoted article is based on a study regarding the local landfill...and it goes on to name other possible causes of the increase in cancer rates in the area....

    the following excerpts from your article seem to support my findings and my opinion as well

    when reading this, i do not find Pottstown area cancer rates to be anywhere near the same rate as the state in general....i think we're reading the same article in two different ways
    The overall incidence rate or cancer risk in the area was the same as
    Pennsylvania (SIR=0.98). The ratio for several types was larger than 1.00.These include
    stomach, pancreas, malignant-melanoma of the skin, cervix, kidney, brain/nervous system,
    thyroid, Hodgkin’s disease, and leukemia. Ratios were sufficiently large for pancreas, malignant
    melanoma, cervix, thyroid and leukemia to consider each statistically significant.
    Several ratios
    were less than 1.0, however, breast cancer was the only one found to be statistically significant.

    Table 3 shows major types diagnosed in this age group. There were fifty-four (54) new primary
    cancers reported during the eighteen-year period. These included leukemia (14), brain-nervous
    system (9), Hodgkin’s disease (2), non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (4), kidney – renal pelvis (8), and
    thyroid cancer (1). These percentages are based on very few cases making comparisons to the
    state figures difficult.


    Standardized Incidence Ratios – Children
    While the crude cancer incidence rate is about 40 times greater in adults compared to children
    (620 per 100,00 versus 15.4 per 100,000), children are more susceptible to several specific
    types.8 These include acute lymphocytic leukemia (ALL), certain lymphomas including Burkitt’s
    lymphoma, Wilm’s tumor of the kidney, connective tissue cancers, and bone cancer. To
    determine if there is a pediatric cancer problem in this area, the types and risks were compared to
    children statewide. Table 4 shows incidence ratios, based on statewide age-specific rates to
    calculate the expected numbers. The incidence rate for “All Cancers” appeared to be 35 percent greater than the state (SIR=1.35), and Wilm’s tumor was over four times greater (SIR=4.32)

    .....This prevented the calculation of site-specific rates. Rates for All Cancers were presented
    only, and precluded any discussion of individual types of cancer.
    The types of cancer, their relative frequencies, and incidence rates or risks in the community
    have been described. When compared to the state, the distribution of cancers was not different,
    and the overall incidence rate was the same as Pennsylvania (SIR=0.98), though some individual
    types exceeded the state’s rate. These included pancreatic cancer, malignant melanoma of the
    skin, cervical cancer, thyroid cancer and leukemia.
    The PADOH looked at twenty-two (22)
    cancer types, the Montgomery County Health Department the major types. Though the
    observation periods were different (10 versus 18 years), the findings are similar. Higher cervical
    cancer and leukemia rates were observed in the PADOH and MCHD studies
    . In both, the
    cervical cancer rates appear to be two- to three-times larger in the Pottstown area, and leukemia
    rates between 30 and 100 percent higher than the comparison areas.
    The rate for All Cancers was
    not different from the tri-county area (1985-1994) or Pennsylvania (1985 - 2002). But unlike the
    MCHD study, lung cancer rates were not elevated.

    respectfully, jo
    peace,
    jo

    http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
    "How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
    "Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
  • StillHere
    StillHere Posts: 7,795
    Brian, I apologize for the disagreement within your post when it was meant as a concerned remembrance for those affected by Fukishima.

    its a difficult subject

    I too stand with you and everyone else in my sadness and sorrow for the people of Japan :(
    peace,
    jo

    http://www.Etsy.com/Shop/SimpleEarthCreations
    "How I choose to feel is how I am." ~ EV/MMc
    "Some people hear their own inner voices with great clearness and they live by what they hear. Such people become crazy, or they become legends." ~ One Stab ~
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    unsung wrote:
    An I scared about nuclear? No.

    If you are saying Limerick (is that the station?) has caused cancer rates to soar out of control like Chernobyl (even that area is returning to pre accident levels) I would have to see the study.

    However I believe I remember seeing a study about estimated life expectancy reduction due to certain environmental issues and being an employee in the industry reduces your life by about a week. I assure you I get much higher radiation dose than probably everyone else on this forum, and I'm not worried in the least bit.

    Do you smoke by chance?

    Yea I sort of feel the same way about nuclear power. Sure it was a huge tragedy what happened in Japan, but to me that shows that nuclear power can be relatively safe. I mean considering those plants were hit with a giant earth quake and then right after that a giant tsunami you would think the damage could have been way worse. I mean based on some quick reasearch, no one died in those plants, other than due to the acutal earthquake or tsunami. How many people die each year in coal mine accidents?

    Speaking of which if I had to make the choice, I would way rather live next to a nuclear plant, than next to a coal fired plant or near the bottom of a hydro-electric dam.
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    unsung wrote:
    An I scared about nuclear? No.

    If you are saying Limerick (is that the station?) has caused cancer rates to soar out of control like Chernobyl (even that area is returning to pre accident levels) I would have to see the study.

    However I believe I remember seeing a study about estimated life expectancy reduction due to certain environmental issues and being an employee in the industry reduces your life by about a week. I assure you I get much higher radiation dose than probably everyone else on this forum, and I'm not worried in the least bit.

    Do you smoke by chance?

    Yea I sort of feel the same way about nuclear power. Sure it was a huge tragedy what happened in Japan, but to me that shows that nuclear power can be relatively safe. I mean considering those plants were hit with a giant earth quake and then right after that a giant tsunami you would think the damage could have been way worse. I mean based on some quick reasearch, no one died in those plants, other than due to the acutal earthquake or tsunami. How many people die each year in coal mine accidents?

    Speaking of which if I had to make the choice, I would way rather live next to a nuclear plant, than next to a coal fired plant or near the bottom of a hydro-electric dam.
    Not sure about Fukushima but many buildings in Japan are built to withstand Earthquakes - at least, better equipped than most places. Anyways, the real issue was not the Earthquake, it was the Tsunami - they're built for Tsunami's in that area but not to the extent the March earthquake caused. Err, what I'm trying to say is, the damage might have been worse if the plant was in a country not prone to earthquakes, or any other unforeseen natural disaster for that matter.

    I guess the issue is, no matter how 'small' the risk is of something like Chernobyl or Fukushima Daiichi happening, if something does it can have the potential to be catastrophic.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    haffajappa wrote:
    I guess the issue is, no matter how 'small' the risk is of something like Chernobyl or Fukushima Daiichi happening, if something does it can have the potential to be catastrophic.

    You could say that about most large scale methods of power generation though. I mean if Hoover Dam were to fail the damage would also be catastrophic, so why don't we get rid of all hydro-electric dams? Sure the failure of a coal fired plant might not be catastrophic but the pollution and acid rain it causes, plus the resparitory diseases (and coal miners deaths) seems like a higher price to pay for power, than the small chance of a nuclear plant failing leading to a increased (but still small) chance of people getting cancer.
  • haffajappa
    haffajappa British Columbia Posts: 5,955
    haffajappa wrote:
    I guess the issue is, no matter how 'small' the risk is of something like Chernobyl or Fukushima Daiichi happening, if something does it can have the potential to be catastrophic.

    You could say that about most large scale methods of power generation though. I mean if Hoover Dam were to fail the damage would also be catastrophic, so why don't we get rid of all hydro-electric dams? Sure the failure of a coal fired plant might not be catastrophic but the pollution and acid rain it causes, plus the resparitory diseases (and coal miners deaths) seems like a higher price to pay for power, than the small chance of a nuclear plant failing leading to a increased (but still small) chance of people getting cancer.
    I suppose.
    live pearl jam is best pearl jam
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    haffajappa wrote:
    I guess the issue is, no matter how 'small' the risk is of something like Chernobyl or Fukushima Daiichi happening, if something does it can have the potential to be catastrophic.

    You could say that about most large scale methods of power generation though. I mean if Hoover Dam were to fail the damage would also be catastrophic, so why don't we get rid of all hydro-electric dams? Sure the failure of a coal fired plant might not be catastrophic but the pollution and acid rain it causes, plus the resparitory diseases (and coal miners deaths) seems like a higher price to pay for power, than the small chance of a nuclear plant failing leading to a increased (but still small) chance of people getting cancer.


    or say if a nuclear power plant testified under oath that their facility had NO underground pipes then a year or so later the water table for that town becomes poisoned by the nuclear power plant taking them months to find where the leak is coming from only to find it came from.....underground pipes that were leaking....but it wasn't their fault, they must have just misunderstood the question while under oath......kinda like what happened with the yankee nuclear power plant

    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=123515&p=2796042&hilit=yankee+yankee+nuclear#p2796042
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    and if you want to build new nuclear power plants, use your own money or find your own investors. stop relying on the tax payers to build them then take decades, if ever, to repay. i'd much rather that money go towards alternatives that don't have toxic waste with no permanent place to store it lasting thousands and thousands of years.

    if the nuclear power industry is so great they should be able to come up with the funds themselves and quit relying on corporate welfare.

    and still, no supporters have answered where will we store the waste since the department of energy has stated yucca mountain can NOT be a permanent location
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,765

    and still, no supporters have answered where will we store the waste since the department of energy has stated yucca mountain can NOT be a permanent location

    That's because there is no place, Pepe. Fukushima is evidence that we still don't know how to handle this sort of thing safely. I live somewhat down wind from the decommissioned Rancho Seco nuclear power plant. This plant still houses spent fuel rods. In the event of an explosion or major earthquake, the radioactivity from this plant could blow our way. What a way to go, huh?

    http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento/ra ... id=1946657
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Leyna Minai
    Leyna Minai Posts: 691
    brianlux wrote:
    What is your point and why have you posted it here? I put up this thread with the intent of honoring those who suffered and still suffered a great tragedy and as a reminder that there are great dangers involved with nuclear power.

    All in all Brian, Thank you very much for remembering what happened in Japan, I can't believe it's already been a year.
    7/15/2011 - Benoroya Hall - (Eddie Vedder Solo) - Seattle, WA
    4/2/2008 - The Center in Vancouver for Performing Arts (Eddie Vedder Solo) - Vancouver, WA
    9/21/2009 Key Arena - Seattle, WA
    7/22/2006 - Gorge Ampitheater - George, WA
    9/1/2005 - Gorge Ampitheater - George, WA
  • Leyna Minai
    Leyna Minai Posts: 691
    satansbed wrote:
    brianlux wrote:


    What is your point and why have you posted it here? I put up this thread with the intent of honoring those who suffered and still suffered a great tragedy and as a reminder that there are great dangers involved with nuclear power.

    and im saying the dangers arent as great as you are saying.

    infact nuclear energy is possibly the best way to allow us to remove our dependency on fossil fuels.


    Except they don't exactly have the perfect way to get rid of nuclear waste yet. At the moment, they place them in canisters and store them all in one place and flood it with water..that's kinda scary yo. Anything can happen and nuclear waste disaster will strike.
    7/15/2011 - Benoroya Hall - (Eddie Vedder Solo) - Seattle, WA
    4/2/2008 - The Center in Vancouver for Performing Arts (Eddie Vedder Solo) - Vancouver, WA
    9/21/2009 Key Arena - Seattle, WA
    7/22/2006 - Gorge Ampitheater - George, WA
    9/1/2005 - Gorge Ampitheater - George, WA
  • Pepe Silvia
    Pepe Silvia Posts: 3,758
    unsung wrote:
    An I scared about nuclear? No.

    If you are saying Limerick (is that the station?) has caused cancer rates to soar out of control like Chernobyl (even that area is returning to pre accident levels) I would have to see the study.

    However I believe I remember seeing a study about estimated life expectancy reduction due to certain environmental issues and being an employee in the industry reduces your life by about a week. I assure you I get much higher radiation dose than probably everyone else on this forum, and I'm not worried in the least bit.

    Do you smoke by chance?

    Yea I sort of feel the same way about nuclear power. Sure it was a huge tragedy what happened in Japan, but to me that shows that nuclear power can be relatively safe. I mean considering those plants were hit with a giant earth quake and then right after that a giant tsunami you would think the damage could have been way worse. I mean based on some quick reasearch, no one died in those plants, other than due to the acutal earthquake or tsunami. How many people die each year in coal mine accidents?

    Speaking of which if I had to make the choice, I would way rather live next to a nuclear plant, than next to a coal fired plant or near the bottom of a hydro-electric dam.


    perhaps but then if you look on the other hand 100% of the cost to build a nuclear power plant comes from our taxes, the nuclear power companies get loan guarantees worth tens of billions. not only that but they are always built WAY OVER BUDGET.

    so, even if you feel it may be 'relatively safe' why should my tax dollars be spent on it? is that a free market?

    so
    it is completely 100% taxpayer subsidized
    always over budget
    will take decades, if ever, to repay while charging us to make a profit off of our tax dollars
    there's no permanent location to store waste which lasts thousands and thousands of years

    why not put that money and generous forever loans to something else? if there's a spill or some other mishap with solar power all you get is a sunny day
    don't compete; coexist

    what are you but my reflection? who am i to judge or strike you down?

    "I will promise you this, that if we have not gotten our troops out by the time I am president, it is the first thing I will do. I will get our troops home. We will bring an end to this war. You can take that to the bank." - Barack Obama

    when you told me 'if you can't beat 'em, join 'em'
    i was thinkin 'death before dishonor'
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,765
    if there's a spill or some other mishap with solar power all you get is a sunny day

    8-) Cool!

    I mean, warm! :D
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni